Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

[satz123]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

One by one they were all becoming shades. Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.

"The Dead" : James Joyce

[Lost Soul]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Hi all,
I hope you don't mind me visiting & posting in you thread? I felt compelled to & hope not to upset you, as suicide is a very sensitive & upsetting subject.
I know people have 'different and very personal reasons' but I thought I would share my experiences & why I wanted to kill myself, because it might help people understand?

I first tried to kill myself by slitting my wrists just after I turned 13 in February. I used ice to numb my wrists & used a razor blade. I failed, what a loser, cant even get that right I thought & I was found by my parents in the morning & brought to A&E to be paper stitched together. Lovely. I was sent to councelling but nothing mentally had changed. I planned to 'go through the motions' but do it properly again in the summer. I tried again in the same way in September/October & did a better job but lacked the guts to do it deep enough as it was so physically painful & had to be stapled together & still have my scars 19 years later. At the time I wanted to die as it seemed the better alternative to living.But at the time I did not know why.

I am very glad I was unsuccessful, I am lovely & deserving of a long & healthy life :happy2: My eldest son Brandon is 10 & the knowledge that in only 3 years he will be the same age I was when I was at my most unhappiest & wanted to die evokes very strong personal emotions. I know mindfullness in the present is hugely beneficial & helpful but this memory & how it impacts my past, present & future is where i've learned & healed from most & offers me the most hope for the future.

I feel the root cause for me was shame. I heard somewhere the word shame, derives from the meaning 'to hide'. I believe shame to be the root cause of alot more in this world than we realise.
I had already died by 'a thousand cuts' long before I actually attempted 'the deed'. I grew up in an extremely abusive home, not because I was beaten or starved or neglected but emotionally. Little things like my mum saying 'I only ever hit your brother with a wooden spoon once & I regretted it.' 13 years worth of little things, adding up to a message that 'LS, you are wrong & bad' from the very people who are meant to protect me from 'wrong & bad'.
Why? Did my mum wish to indirectly cause my death? Not at all! She just projected all her shame and fear onto me that I might expose how she felt. By, you know, being a normal child, making mistakes, being naughty... as kids do when their learning :happy2: So she used more 'agressive' emotionally abusive approach so I would be like my good older brother (who she'd probably already broken).
Living a life of someone else's shame & fears was too much for me, and anyone for that matter, so brave little me decided to 'release myself'. Sadly because I didn't understand my mum made me feel the was I did, sublty, to get what she wanted I was ashamed of her shame & rather than ask for help (because I wrongly was taught & believed it was my fault I that I was bad) I 'hid it' & made my plans.

So Satz, I couldn't disagree more with you. I believe suicide is the behavioural 'end result' of the problem not the beginning. (Alcoholism included in my humble opinion, but thats a whole 'nother story...) I truly believe 'if' you can address & attack the source of shame, you have a huge chance of attacking the illness & have a better chance of recovery.
Sadly many, many people are successful when ending their life. :sad: Alot have 'on the surface' no problems & are happy. But I wish they had access to help & support before they had reached the point of 'wanting to' hurt themselves & after suicide there is no going back x

I believe this is true based on my experience of being a victim of child abuse, rape and domestic abuse & recovery from the longterm effects (including PTSD, when a discussion about suicide triggers me.) Afterwards, there is no going back, only coming to terms with & living through. No regrets & shame over that which you cannot control & I will always get to the other side & be okay. But I am tired & worn out having to go through the sadness & loss & fear about what has happened to get to the hope on the other side every time.

I believe this is true based on my experience of 'why' a perpetrator commits child abuse, rape or domestic abuse.
I wish they had access to help & support before they had reached the point of 'wanting to' hurt themselves & others & afterwards there is no going back for the victim or the perpetrator. This is where I have to speak, where I have to find hope.
Not all victims internalise with alcoholism & suicide. Externalising can be just as damaging to self & others.

So maybe my 'incurable mental illness' or 'grave emotional/mental disorders' (as AA would have be believe :happy2 are not a curse but a blessing? If I can share a bit of me & it helps the next struggling person, is it not worth it? I can't change the pain of past but can use it to help someone change their future & that hope is a worthy cause. Doing & saying nothing definately changes nothing.

Take care everyone & sorry for the doom & gloom
LS

[satz123]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

So Satz, I couldn't disagree more with you. I believe suicide is the behavioral 'end result' of the problem not the beginning. (Alcoholism included in my humble opinion, but thats a whole 'nother story...) I truly believe 'if' you can address & attack the source of shame, you have a huge chance of attacking the illness & have a better chance of recovery.

So maybe my 'incurable mental illness' or 'grave emotional/mental disorders' (as AA would have be believe :happy2 are not a curse but a blessing? If I can share a bit of me & it helps the next struggling person, is it not worth it? I can't change the pain of past but can use it to help someone change their future & that hope is a worthy cause. Doing & saying nothing definately changes nothing.

LS
Thanks for sharing that.
Of course I agree with if you can 'address & attack the source of people's issues, you have a huge chance of attacking the illness & have a better chance of recovery'. Of course I do. I believe we were born to live happy lives. Then some shitty people get involved and life becomes hell. Like yours LS.

But when a person has tried everything ......and is still unhappy and their lives are still in torment ....... what then ? The norm is to kill themselves slowly with alcohol - exist on in a haze of mind altering drugs.

Really I am playing devil's advocate here : but why do we assume all people, who commit suicide did not really want to do it and wanted to be saved.
Some just MAYBE really want to go. Do you accept , children aside, it's THEIR choice ?
"My body - my choice " is often bandied around...... in a different context - but with regard to human life.

Again my views...... not trying to convert anyone here.

[satz123]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Now, my brain is sore and life is for the living, so off to do something :llama:
( you can all talk about me behind my back )

[Neo]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Yep, you are who you hang around.I got rid of all the shitty people. Of the worst was a financial planner . I got to look into our little local council and see senior staff for who they really are and don't like what I see. The Dunning Kruger effect. My goals this year is to run with a good team and have the support around you. And be clear on what you love doing above money. I would rather earn a bit less doing something I love than hate.

First step on the path to clarity is getting rid of alcohol and smokes .I can't operate at my peak with it everyday

[Tabbers (a.k.a. KTAB)]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Really I am playing devil's advocate here : but why do we assume all people, who commit suicide did not really want to do it and wanted to be saved.
Some just MAYBE really want to go. Do you accept , children aside, it's THEIR choice ?
"My body - my choice " is often bandied around...... in a different context - but with regard to human life.

compos mentis
having full control of one's mind

I am not sure 'choice' comes into it when the stage of trying to take one's own life is reached. Again just my opinion based on personal experience.

Anyway end of discussion from me, I have absolutely no wish to cause distress to anyone here.

[satz123]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Sorry if having a discussion - expressing an opinion caused distress....... let's forget it
Have a nice weekend folks.

[abcowboy]

I'll chime in with my 2 cents, and it's not meant to make light of anyone's experience because I was there as well. My dad worked with suicide survivors and families of suicide victims to see if it had anything to do with mental health. After 2 years of studies he came to the conclusion that the people who want to commit suicide do, the people who attempt suicide are reaching out for help. Just some food for thought....

[IamMary]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Evening,
Delighted we're having a good discussion here and I dont think anyone is taking offence if opinions differ?

LS, thanks for sharing your story and Im glad you were not successful all those years ago :hug:.

We are all coming from different experiences of suicide, so of course differ on opinion. If my recent cousins death was my only knowledge of suicide, I would agree, there must have been more that could have been done, this shouldnt have happened,

The other 2 people in my family that suffered severe depression, hadnt known any peace for many many years. Doesnt make it any less sad, but easier to understand.

One box does not fit all I suppose,

[JackieClaire]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Just popping in to say night night. :hug:

[IamMary]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Me too. Yawn. :sleeping:

[Lost Soul]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Hi all,
I'm really sorry if anything I shared caused anyone to feel distressed or uncomfortable Satz, I am sorry for addressing you so directly, any ishoos that affect me, are just that, mine I really appreciated reading your thoughts as it helps me to clarify how I feel about stuff too so thank you x
I think the individual is the only person with the most control & choice over the situation. Nobody else can influence their choices they make & every one is so different & a person's reasons are so personal to them. In any individuals darkest place of hopeless & dispair it may seem there is only one way out but there is always a choice. To choose to die is the most final release from pain & beyond anyone else's control. There is no way to enforce life or happiness.

For adults (or children) "my body - my choice" is true. But what about when it's not? What's the point. It's too late the damage has been done for everyone. Shame & self blame is a way of thinking you are in more control & feeling more safe when you are not. Only when you give that back https://www.mywayout.org/community/ge...ed-rapist.html can you deal with the true horror & reality of a situation/life experience & decide with clarity what choice you make. My opinion is that when you are dealing with shame as a factor, you are not thinking clearly because your mind is actually trying to protect itself from psychological damage & danger to survive. In the absence of shame I do not know It is just very very sad.

[mario]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Good morning.

[satz123]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Morning Mario - how's the weather over there ?

[mario]

Re: Join the Army Against Alcohol - February 2017

Good morning satz, The weather is great, the sun is shinning bright & the skies are clear, it does say it will only go up to 14% today.But still who is complaining and your weather report from there....