Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

[mollyka]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

In Aiseirí - they were fanatical about us finding things that we really wanted to do - and so many had nothing - including me back then - hadn't rediscovered my books - and funnily enough even after quite a few years of sobriety I'm still 'improving' and 'recovering' - used to be really big into gardening - was going to study horticulture for a while but never had the time nor money - but the gardening bug is coming back over the last 2 years -and this year - I'm gagging for the cold weather to be gone - have my seeds lined up ready to go..

To a young person like young Satz - those things just sound so 'old' and 'boring' - BUT the problem is that the things they ARE interested in at his age invariably are alcohol linked - and that's where the surrender has to come in... telling them how much work needs to go into this is scary - mainly because - truth be told- he's probably only getting sober for you at this stage so to be told he has to do all that 'work' as well -- he could throw in the towel altogether -which I have to say - the last binge he went on felt like that when you described his behaviours..

[mollyka]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

With regard to young Satz -
The pattern is the same.
After about 4 days sober he's all gung ho - applying for jobs , interviewing for jobs , making plans. Training for marathons etc.
Then it all falls apart when he drinks again.

But would I be right in saying that it's all fallen apart BEFORE he starts drinking again - no one puts the glass to his mouth - if he wanted to do those jobs/marathons etc - badly enough - he wouldn't plan to drink -

[satz123]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

But would I be right in saying that it's all fallen apart BEFORE he starts drinking again - no one puts the glass to his mouth - if he wanted to do those jobs/marathons etc - badly enough - he wouldn't plan to drink -

You know what you are right Molls. He is doing this for us.
If he REALLY wanted to be sober - he'd go to his meetings & Aftercare. I don't push them on him.
He doesn't go - doesn't like AA.
Last time he went to Aftercare he went to the pub afterwards.

I think we are so grateful when he is sober we let him be. We are those pathetic parents I saw in the rehab place. Lives in ruins because of a little f*cker.

[mollyka]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

You are FAR from pathetic - you are superb parents - one may argue - TOO good - and the common sense that we all have would tell us that if we are good and kind to our offspring that they will see that and behave appropriately - 'repay' us if you like - and I don't mean financially --
BUT - you aren't dealing with Young Satz - you are dealing with an addict - and yeah - he needs to be treated as such - unfortunately the love you feel for him makes it nigh on impossible to treat him as he should be treated. .. I dunno - tough love I s'pose is the expression

but DON'T do yourselves down - we here are ALL addicts - and not ONE of us is able to 'solve' the problem.... and d'ya know why? cos he HAS to solve the problem himself - and again UNFORTUNATELY -- this is all happening under your roof so you can't just take a deep breath - close your front door and pray that he will sort himself out - he's messing up your lives -- BIG time -- pathetic --- YOU???? NO NO NO

[mollyka]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

and -- I WILL say this here on MWO -- ANYONE who is still actively drinking or binging and don't go to AA because 'it's not for them' -- fuck them I say - it works for lots of people and yeah they may feel 'better than your average addict' -- too good for AA -- fuck that -- they are alcoholics - and if I was still slipping and sliding I would go to the MOON for an AA meeting if I thought there was the SLIGHTEST chance of it working for me... - drives me MAD

[JackieClaire]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

Had to go and tidy my wool.......it was all over the place.

Molls, with the AA...........try the bugger, not one meeting, lots of different meetings.......I did. They are held in places that may look shabby on the outside (that's because of money)......but the people inside are far from shabby. When I started at George St. (there's at least 15 meetings of AA, NA, CA,GA (that's heaving because of the bloody on-line betting connection) a week.
I thought that they might be a bit funny with me for not using AA...........and you know what I reckon I can count on the fingers of one hand the one's that think AA is the only way. Athough I'd be back in aa flash if its what I thought I needed it and if I have time on a Thursday I sit with the door open so I cna listen in. There's a few of the younger ones..........below 40 go to NA rather than AA as they connect more there and alcohol being their drug of choice.

If he doesn't want to leave the house. AA on-line, SMART on-line, Sober Recovery............get him active in his sobriety........he can sit on his pity pot 'til doomsday but he has to get active in recovery whichever way he chooses.........100 odd years ago he'd have been hidden in the attic or an asylum..........things move on.

When I look back and think I was quite prepared to kill myself because .....when it boils down to is I couldn't drink like normal people........not only is it absurd its disturbing the importance we put on alcohol.

Satz, love. you are a loving mother and daughter. And going through shit you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. I wish I'd had a mammy like you.

[stirly-girly]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

You are FAR from pathetic - you are superb parents - one may argue - TOO good - and the common sense that we all have would tell us that if we are good and kind to our offspring that they will see that and behave appropriately - 'repay' us if you like - and I don't mean financially --
BUT - you aren't dealing with Young Satz - you are dealing with an addict - and yeah - he needs to be treated as such - unfortunately the love you feel for him makes it nigh on impossible to treat him as he should be treated. .. I dunno - tough love I s'pose is the expression

but DON'T do yourselves down - we here are ALL addicts - and not ONE of us is able to 'solve' the problem.... and d'ya know why? cos he HAS to solve the problem himself - and again UNFORTUNATELY -- this is all happening under your roof so you can't just take a deep breath - close your front door and pray that he will sort himself out - he's messing up your lives -- BIG time -- pathetic --- YOU???? NO NO NO

and -- I WILL say this here on MWO -- ANYONE who is still actively drinking or binging and don't go to AA because 'it's not for them' -- fuck them I say - it works for lots of people and yeah they may feel 'better than your average addict' -- too good for AA -- fuck that -- they are alcoholics - and if I was still slipping and sliding I would go to the MOON for an AA meeting if I thought there was the SLIGHTEST chance of it working for me... - drives me MAD

Hello Army!!

Poking my nose in here for a quick post after taking a hasty peek back over the last few.

First of all, Satzybum - what Molls said about you being good parents rings true. We've seen you over the years bend over backwords for your kids and just the fact that you got and and are still sober is an example of you being a responsible and caring parent. Yes, we get sober for ourselves but we also know how our drinking affected both ourselves and our families so we know that it has a big impact on those closest to us. Also, what Molly said is true - he has to solve the problem himself. And you are right - he's doing it for you, not himself, otherwise he would reach out to get whatever help he can. Being accountable to others at a weekly or bi-weekly AA meeting would mean he would have to stay sober and that is not part of his plan yet from what I can see. Also, I would like to add my two cents worth on this parenting thing. Too often we judge others by how their kids act and at some point may judge ourselves as well, thinking that because our kids have some lack of motivation or some dependency or get themselves in some kind of trouble, that we are to blame. The truth is, IMVHO, that our parenting skills, or lack of, are not always to blame for our children's "faults". I know that the way they are raised has much to do with their personality and their behaviour but I believe that genes have something to do with it as well. I've seen it time and time again, and see it with my own boys - two kids raised in the same house by the same parents and they turn out differently. They may have the same basic values but their views on certain things and their behaviour can be completely different. Don't blame yourself for young Satz' drinking problem - it's most likely in the genes - and at the age he is - he's old enough to take responsibility for his actions and also his reactions. Going to a meeting and then to the pub afterwards shows his lack of commitment to getting sober as does his falling off the wagon every few days. He just isn't ready yet to bit the bullet and frankly, it could be a long time before he is. Why - because he has a soft place to fall onto. And as I see it, no one can blame you for providing that for him. He is your son, after all, and not one of us can know what is the "proper" way to handle such a situation. I would go for the tough love but as I said a few days ago, I don't know if I could do it myself if the time came. And the reason is because you never know where he is going to end up if he's not at your home. Young Satz needs to have a reason to stop drinking and unfortunately, he hasn't found one yet. And again, IMVHO, until he does, not much is going to change. I know it is so very difficult for you to watch him go through this and frankly, I think it's even harder since you yourself know what this addiction means both to your mental and physical health. These are more thoughts than advice but I would say you will gain nothing by blaming yourselves for his "issue" with AL. You and Mr. S being united and supporting each other is about the best you can do right now. You have to consider your relationship and make sure this does not cause a rift in it. Having to deal with young Satz is enough to have on your plate right now. Thinking of you and hoping that things will take a more positive turn in the very near future. XXOO

Waving to all - hope you're having a good day!!!

[satz123]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

Thanks everyone for your advice. I really do appreciate it :hug:
I do not blame myself for his drinking per se.

But I blame myself that I am allowing him to mess up my life and those around here.
Even the fact that I have to discuss him here annoys me.
I've always had to sort my own problems & now living with this totally pisses me off.

I am not a martyred mother - I want him fixed for the selfish reason of not wanting to worry about how he is going to be and forever cleaning up after his mess .

Does that make sense ?

[satz123]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

PS I love yous all - a wonderful group of people.

[mollyka]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

Thanks everyone for your advice. I really do appreciate it :hug:
I do not blame myself for his drinking per se.

But I blame myself that I am allowing him to mess up my life and those around here.
Even the fact that I have to discuss him here annoys me.
I've always had to sort my own problems & now living with this totally pisses me off.

I am not a martyred mother - I want him fixed for the selfish reason of not wanting to worry about how he is going to be and forever cleaning up after his mess .

Does that make sense ?

COURSE it makes absolute sense i would be exactly the same - we deserve peace in our lives after decades of being at others beck and call - trust me I never had you down as a martyr - can't ABIDE martyrs my sister was a champion !!!!!

[mollyka]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

As I've bored you all to tears here previously about the efficacy (or rather LACK of efficacy) in my opinion of online forums for addiction - I think the keyboard warrior in each and every one of us allows us to 'be' whoever we choose to manifest ourselves as on these boards - some are honest - lots aren't - and the lack of face to face contact is a lazyman/cowards way out imo -- for ADDICTION... however - I do think the problems that occur in our lives - that have previously been the type of things that made us stumble back to the bottle - precisely family/job/relationship issues -- I do think this place is of great use - to be able to talk out anonymously (or as anonymous as we choose to be) our issues, problems - get others opinions - discard many - maybe take one or two onboard... invaluable - I have 'used' (meant in the nicest possible way I stress!) MWO many times for such things and found it wonderful

So please do not feel Even the fact that I have to discuss him here annoys me.
I've always had to sort my own problems & now living with this totally pisses me off. like that ---be annoyed/angry with him by all means - but it has to be good to be able to gather opinions --- IMVVVVVHO:thumbsup:

[stirly-girly]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

Thanks everyone for your advice. I really do appreciate it :hug:
I do not blame myself for his drinking per se.

But I blame myself that I am allowing him to mess up my life and those around here.
Even the fact that I have to discuss him here annoys me.
I've always had to sort my own problems & now living with this totally pisses me off.

I am not a martyred mother - I want him fixed for the selfish reason of not wanting to worry about how he is going to be and forever cleaning up after his mess .

Does that make sense ?

Satzy - the truth of the matter is that many things we do, we do for ourselves under the disguise of doing things for others. We do what makes us feel good. I had a talk with my best friend about this recently and IMHO, it's true. Even when we do something like giving some change to a beggar, in reality, we do it to make ourselves feel better. So yes, wanting young Satz "fixed" makes perfect sense. I always said I couldn't wait til my kids grew up so my mind would be more at rest. Guess what - less at rest now than when they were younger. Love them to bits but some days I wish they would take themselves and their problems and leave me with some peace of mind. Just can't handle the weight of it all. And you've got your Mom to deal with as well. So no, not selfish, just self-preservation, if you will. And all of us at some point get really, really tired of cleaning up other people's messes!!

As for discussing it here - what Molly said - you can gather opinions here which you can either take or leave but just one small comment by someone might be that which helps you. Younger son is going through a difficult time and after many, many discussions, he said to me the other day that something I said made perfect sense and put his mind to ease a bit. I could actually see the difference in him - his eyes were less troubled the next day. So yes, you may get a small bit of advice or an observation from someone that will make a difference.

[mollyka]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

the truth of the matter is that many things we do, we do for ourselves under the disguise of doing things for others. We do what makes us feel good.

Funny - I think that too Stirly - but then I sometimes put thinking that down to being somewhat 'on the spectrum' - and not being a 'good person' - I look at people who appear to go to the ends of the earth and back for their fellow earth travellers and I KNOW I couldn't do all that stuff for others.. I just know it.. yeah - I wonder.... inclined to agree with you tho!!! and I also agree that I wish my sprogs would all sod off and sort out their own lives - youngest now is even all growed up -- get on with it -- I didn't go running back to my mum - once I was married - that was it - I was gone - and I was only 20 then...

and finally - re. the little things we may say - sometimes just idly - making a difference to others - it is such a compliment when you recognise something that you know you may have uttered previously being re-hashed back at you -- occasionally happens with the kids alright -- feels good!!!!

[JackieClaire]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

It was many years ago when Jenny went to Uni that the bloke next door asked when we were getting our revolving doors fitted.........because she'd be back...........oh how I laughed......little did I know.
I can look back and reckon I must have spent less than 10 days since I was 19 at my Mum and Dad's and twice they were on holiday.

[RunningCourage]

Re: Join up! Army against the grog!!! March 2018

Evening troops - off to leaba just now, but quick pop in and so much sage advice, as ever.

Doc - :hug: if I had a mam like you I'd consider me one lucky effin so and so.

Molls, JC, Stirly - SOUND advice, thoughts, ideas. Always something to take away and chew on.

Sorry I can't add anything just now - just banjaxed.

Zzzzzzz -