August Army Manoevres

[mollyka]

Re: August Army Manoevres

That's probably true on forums of all sorts, [MENTION=18049]RunningCourage[/MENTION]. I think women and girls are conditioned to talk and express their feelings and unfortunately for boys and men, they're encouraged not to. I'm very impressed by the few men on this site and wonder what about their upbringing enabled them to open up. Even when anonymous, it is hard for most people to be so vulnerable and harder for men than women. I'd be interested in what people think about the differences and whether they are cultural or innate.

Agree - 100% - and I think men are inherently more afraid of opening up - but mainly nurture - or lack of - 'big boys don't cry' - that can start at the age of 2.. and even if it's not 'said' I think it is implied in society - and on it goes - then girls will relate to their mothers in their teens - mothers are girls - so they open up - the girls open up (usually - I know mine did -- still does!!!) the boys relate to their dads - - what do men talk about? Football, cars - ANYTHING but feelings and problems and emotions - I'm not stereotyping - some men only need the slightest encouragement to be in touch with their inner selves and then - they SURPRISE themselves - I've seen it with men at work - I don't pussyfoot around anymore with anyone - so when a young colleague implied that life at home with brand new twins was anything but bliss - I just asked him straight out - and like a flood of relief he unloaded … bless him - it was a nightmare - postnatal depression - screaming babies - in-law problems -- so I would probably blame nurture over nature - but there is some of the nature in there too

And like NS - I SO admire the lads on this forum (or any forum) it is the equivalent of wearing a pink shirt imo -- a REAL man:heartbeat:

[JackieClaire]

Re: August Army Manoevres

Evening,
[MENTION=18725]NoSugar[/MENTION]...........I've volunteered in alcohol and drug services in my town for the seven years...........and I would say those who were seeking face to face help were more likely to be men.

The place I'm at at the moment is run by those in the fellowship and has at least two meetings a day...........and again would say the majority are men. Apart from the women only meetings....funnily enough there are no men only meetings.

I wish I had a solid theory..........but in my most humble opinion do men like seeing who they're talking to rather than a forum where they can't see body language.

Perhaps a woman is more afraid/shy/timid of just walking in somewhere alone...............an online forum is a godsend. Or are they still chained to the kitchen sink......

[mollyka]

Re: August Army Manoevres

As regards men and addiction and women and addiction - I truly believe that there is more shame attached to a female addict than a male - in fact some men I encountered at meetings almost wore it as a badge of honour - the women slunk in - I did an addiction counselling diploma (yeah - online -- of course!!!) and my project was 'women and shame in addiction' - which funnily enough was also the title of my project in treatment (well it was JUST 'shame' ) and I believe that to be the case - maybe BECAUSE we are considered the nurturing sex.. and to turn to drink or drugs is just SO wrong in that context? Must dig it out -- got an A - First A I ever got in my life!

[NoSugar]

Re: August Army Manoevres

That is very interesting, JC! I certainly was unwilling to get face to face help but it was because I was mortified to have anyone 'find out'. Is it more embarrassing for women to be addicted, I wonder? And to need meetings of their own? It's great that your place can have so many meetings and help the people who want it.

My observations align with yours, Molly, in terms of interactions I'm part of and witness. Maybe like with your colleague, some men (and, of course, some women) just need the invitation to open up. I bet it was such a relief for him to spill his guts (and very nice of you to listen!).

[NoSugar]

Re: August Army Manoevres

x-post, Molly. I suspect you're right. If I'm honest, I think my gut reaction is that it is 'worse' for the mom than the dad to be an addict. Intellectually, I don't believe that but the feeling probably adds to the shame I felt/still feel.

[mollyka]

Re: August Army Manoevres

Sorry for disappearing mid conversation - family arrived..
I'm a bit too dogmatic about the men not opening up thing I think - we've had terribly sad young male suicides in our family and it breaks my heart to know over the years that they could never open up to anyone... with 3 sons I worry - so yeah - sorry if I was pushing my agenda onto anyone..

anyway on a much lighter note - discovered a smashing follyer-upper -- the Succession -- really good -- anyone see it?

[JackieClaire]

Re: August Army Manoevres

I'll have to wait for the Succession and its predecessor arrive on Netflix or Amazon.

Its horrendous that the biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide. Mental health is as important as physical health........in fact in another of my very humble opinions its crucial. Mental and Physical welling being should be started at school from an early age.........but it comes down yet again to funding.
We are just putting our children into schools to pass exams these days. Seems to me these days they're being tutored to get degrees............wouldn't it be better to get back to apprenticeships and learning on the job.

Discuss.............while I'm off to bed.

[mollyka]

Re: August Army Manoevres

Couldn't agree more Jackie! And now goodnight all - gonna sleep tonight if it kills me!! Xxx

[RunningCourage]

Re: August Army Manoevres

Late check in.

Interesting thoughts - I'd add that while it may be seem as more shameful for a women to have an AL problem - worse if the mum has it, than the dad (it's not, it's just the perception that it is), with ED - and other mental health issues - it's seen/felt as more shameful for the male to suffer with it. ED, for example, still is seen as a female mental health issue (though about 20%males have one - and that's only those diagnosed I think, so could be more). I'm not sure if male sufferers from this would even attend face-to-face. Seen as more shameful than AL or NA?? Just my thoughts...

Off to bed -

[abcowboy]

I’m not so sure about men and not being able to express their emotions, that never was the situation at the many AA meetings I attended. Of the 4 online forums I have been active in, it’s been my observation that women far outnumber the men, but in any of the AA meetings I’ve attended it’s been the opposite. So I’ve come to a few conclusions of my own;

a: Women feel more secure in an online forum where anonymity is better
b: Unless you’re in a bigger urban setting, most all AA meetings are predominantly male attended so women may be a bit more worried about their safety as well as opening up to a group of men who may or may not understand how addiction may affect women differently
c: And I’m not trying to be sexist here because Bubba and I share all responsibilities equally, but many times AA meetings are held when women have household responsibilities that they can’t or won’t leave unattended, so their option is mainly online support.

Just my own observations/opinions, and I could be way off base...

[IamMary]

Re: August Army Manoevres

I'll have to wait for the Succession and its predecessor arrive on Netflix or Amazon.

Its horrendous that the biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide. Mental health is as important as physical health........in fact in another of my very humble opinions its crucial. Mental and Physical welling being should be started at school from an early age.........but it comes down yet again to funding.
We are just putting our children into schools to pass exams these days. Seems to me these days they're being tutored to get degrees............wouldn't it be better to get back to apprenticeships and learning on the job.

Discuss.............while I'm off to bed.

Are you Mr M in real life? :happy2: He rekons they should all go down this route and I say absolutely, once they have a degree!
Yes you are correct.. the exams here, until recently, are just one big memory test, but they are starting to move towards continuous assessments and focus more on problem solving rather than knowing the answers but not understanding it. Anyway, no system is perfect.. but I will be shortly embarking on those exam years for my lot, so I think I'll stay close. For a decade at least.

Interesting RC about the eating forum. Give it a while though, it didnt happen overnight here for most of us to feel comfortable. BUT, immediately, I couldnt get over how everyone's description of their experiences drinking were almost parallel to mine, give or take a few differences. Thats when I stopped doubting myself (maybe it will pass, maybe im being dramatic), I had a problem.

[IamMary]

Re: August Army Manoevres

Crossed posts with all the MEN, sorry lads!

Good points Cowboy.. I can categorically say, this woman was too ashamed to walk into an AA meeting. Could not do it.

Interesting RC. Do you mean 20% of men have/had a ED! 1 in 5??

[sweetpea29]

Re: August Army Manoevres

Evening all,

Straggler alert!

Great chat today, agree with many of yer points.

Cowboy think your points are spot-on. It wouldn't have been an option for this girl to attend AA. Actually know a few guys who do go, never once met a woman 'cept for those on here who've gone. Personal security and shame play a factor with me.

Jacks totally agree with your points bout mental and physical health. Folk are fed-up listening to me go on about how young kids, the younger the better, need to be introduced to the like of mindfulness. It's as important as ABC, and 1,2,3. Ya hear that D'Arsey? Stick that into your lessons in morn!
Know it's all down to resources and lack of, but just feel the mental well-being of folk is getting worse and will only cost more to society in long run. Agree too about apprenticeships.

Molls- hope you get a better nights sleep tonight x

D'Arsey- yeah defo stick at the other forum. Maybe the more blokes post and participate the more other blokes will feel more comfortable?! Not sure if it's seen as more shameful for men to have EDs just maybe less common or less well-known. Remember years ago watching an interview with Monty Don- ya know home from Gardeners World fame?!:heartbeat:
He was discussing having an ED.

Hiya Mary 😀 Don't envy ya with the young ones coming up to their exam time. Don't envy them either. Too much pressure on them nowadays methinks.


Hope rest of yiz doing ok

Nighters/Oiche mhaith

[starty]

Re: August Army Manoevres

One of Mr S work colleagues tried to kill himself a few weeks ago. Mr S said emphatically he couldnt understand why he never told anyone how he was feeling. That surprised me because I did not think that would be the first thing that came out of Mr Ss mouth. Maybe blokes are changing or maybe it takes a whole lot more to make them open up than women.

Just watched a prog on male suicide (Horizon BBC1) and they are quoting terrifying stats. I have had a couple of friends (not close) who committed suicide and it is shocking truly shocking.

I think like addiction, there are many more people suffering from mental health disorders than we realise. Pretty sad state of affairs and seems to be the scourge of modern life.

Cheery start to the morning :haha:

[brit]

Re: August Army Manoevres

Good morning--Those posts yesterday really resonated with me--So many parallels re the shame particularly for women and alcohol and in my case wife, mother and grandmother.
Off to take my nervous wreck of a granddaughter (who was only 16 last week) to get her GCSE results. So much pressure on these young boys and girls.
See you later