United Nations of MWO

[Pavati]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Hi, all--

Molly - that's one of the things that kept me drinking - my fear that I'd never have any fun without it. The two places I was most worried about were live music and dancing - both of which I love to do, but totally revolve around drinking. With live music, not drinking was a positive result from the start. It was amazing to find a place to stand and to stay there for the whole show - without having to go fill up my cup or go to the bathroom! I remembered the music, and enjoyed it with a lot more intensity than I did while drinking. Live music includes dancing, but more anonymous at bigger venues. When I see a local band or go to a wedding, I love to dance, but I don't think I'm very good, so alcohol gave me the courage to do it anyway. When I took that booze away, it took a lot more effort to get me up and going. However, I persisted, and now it comes a lot more easily, and I still have a blast.

I was talking to a friend near the beginning of my quit and told him that I felt socially awkward and that's what drinking was good for - he said "isn't that true for everyone? That's why we all drink." I guess then the difference is that I just kept drinking and drinking, even after the party was over.

Anyway - thanks for starting this thread, Cowboy - good to "see" others around here.

Pav

[Jude58]

Re: United Nations of MWO

What a great idea to start this thread, thank you Molly, Satz and cowboy! It's kinda like having a family reunion....the online version. :hiya:

We have a great mix of people here and it should be very interesting to get other's insights and support. Looking forward to some lively discussions.

I was searching for a quote this morning to post at the café, when I came across this one, and it gave me a chuckle.

“Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder”- author unknown.

Go to any bar at last call and try not to trip over all of the "beautiful" people!

Good to see all who've posted here already, and looking forward to seeing many more!

[RunningCourage]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Thanks for starting this [MENTION=21602]abcowboy[/MENTION] ... kind of apt (or ironic) that it be the day that Kofi Annan passes away.

I'm not one of those with a long stint of sobriety, but for me my quit is about facing those aspects of my life which i avoided/drowned/soothed/pushed down with AL. Suppose it's not so much about getting sober (which is a by-product) but getting a new life.

I met with an old flat mate - some years older than me (could be me maw!) - who is a trained counsellor as was wanting advice and a sounding board. Turns out her son has been in CA (Cocaine Anonymous) for the past 2 years. What she was saying about my drinking, and her sons drug use, was a) they were suppressing / pushing down whatever it is we don't want to deal with (even if it's the simplicity of daily "mundane" life, or something more specific) and b) that abusive use of AL/drugs prevents normal emotional growth (even in adults - we are all still growing and each age we learn new things, have to deal with new life events)... we stunt such growth. And in sobriety we need to learn, or relearn, what we have stunted - re-wiring the neuro-wirings; chipping away at the old maladaptive brain circuit boards to create new, healthy ones.

But if, like me, there's been nearly 25 years of re-wiring to do, we need to be soft with ourselves: change is not going to happen overnight, but it is happening, even if the physical or psychological aspects don't appear immediately present. ODATT, for everything.

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

alcohol gave me the courage to do it anyway. When I took that booze away, it took a lot more effort to get me up and going. However, I persisted, and now it comes a lot more easily, and I still have a blast.

Pav

Yes Pav - a case of 'Fake it 'till you Make it' ..... and it's wonderful to finally realise you've made it. Socialising again .... but now on your own terms.
Sober dancing at a wedding to shit music is still a challenge :haha:
When it gets sweaty & kmessy - hightail it out of there !!!

[NoraC]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Love this thread. :yay: I agree that the Army usually has a wonderful thread going. I need to remember to stop by daily.

I think that a huge thing for me even now is that I am so grateful not to have that voice in my head all the time. That debate - I want to drink - no I don't want to drink - I want to drink - no I don't want to drink. That was a part of my daily life for so long.
Now - every once a while, I'll get a thought about it and it doesn't take me long to remember that I never want that in my life again.

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Thanks for starting this [MENTION=21602]abcowboy[/MENTION] ... Turns out her son has been in CA (Cocaine Anonymous) for the past 2 years. What she was saying about my drinking, and her sons drug use, was a) they were suppressing / pushing down whatever it is we don't want to deal with (even if it's the simplicity of daily "mundane" life, or something more specific) and b) that abusive use of AL/drugs prevents normal emotional growth (even in adults - we are all still growing and each age we learn new things, have to deal with new life events)... we stunt such growth. And in sobriety we need to learn, or relearn, what we have stunted - re-wiring the neuro-wirings; chipping away at the old maladaptive brain circuit boards to create new, healthy ones.

But if, like me, there's been nearly 25 years of re-wiring to do, we need to be soft with ourselves: change is not going to happen overnight, but it is happening, even if the physical or psychological aspects don't appear immediately present. ODATT, for everything.

Arsey I had 40 years of re-wiring to do. It can be done.
Have you thought of going to AA at all ? - may be the final piece of the puzzle like CA seems to have worked for your friend's son ?

[mollyka]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Lovely -- more folks!! yeah Nora - the thoughts can come - and the thoughts can go.... no harm there!! just not to dwell on them in my case..

A good friend of mine on this site just reminded me of something - the first thing I learnt in treatment was the necessity to have humility towards this 'disease' (is it a disease? I dunno) - it will beat us EVERY time if we don't acknowledge it's power - and I remember maybe 10 years ago a member here was berated somewhat for putting forward the thought that if someone is struggling for a very long time with getting sober - that sometimes they may need to add another tool to their toolbox -- I knew for ME -- (please always remember folks I can only ever talk about me - I don't know anyone elses inner thoughts or needs) after a couple of years struggling here at MWO that I needed more - in my case the option to attend a treatment centre was given to me - such a privilege - and probably over the top - but there are lots of other options like AA to meet fellow addicts and realise face to face that lovely normal people move along - they aren't alkies in a park on a bench - but sometimes with lack of humility - we can sometimes think we are somehow 'better' than other addicts? Manifest sometimes with the 'I'm not/wasn't that bad' syndrome?

Just a thought -- said with love

Morning all xx

[mollyka]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Arsey I had 40 years of re-wiring to do. It can be done.
Have you thought of going to AA at all ? - may be the final piece of the puzzle like CA seems to have worked for your friend's son ?

Xpost Benjy!!! Well as they say -- 'great minds think alike!!' (choose to ignore the 'fools seldom differ' bit:congratulatory

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Lovely -- more folks!! yeah Nora - the thoughts can come - and the thoughts can go.... no harm there!! just not to dwell on them in my case..

A good friend of mine on this site just reminded me of something - the first thing I learnt in treatment was the necessity to have humility towards this 'disease' (is it a disease? I dunno) - it will

I don't think it's a disease - unless of the mind ...... dis-ease of the mind.
Young Satz went to the same treatment centre. You tried to tell me at the time Molls - he just wasn't ready. And this has proved right. He did it for US not HIM.
We had to coerce him down there into saying he was an addict. He lacked the humility to get better.
Thinks he's above it all............ and we can see where that gets him

[mollyka]

Re: United Nations of MWO

I don't think it's a disease - unless of the mind ...... dis-ease of the mind.
Young Satz went to the same treatment centre. You tried to tell me at the time Molls - he just wasn't ready. And this has proved right. He did it for US not HIM.
We had to coerce him down there into saying he was an addict. He lacked the humility to get better.
Thinks he's above it all............ and we can see where that gets him

And he's not alone - personally I consider it one of the biggest obstacles to getting sober - I heard it in the treatment centre -- 'I only drank half a bottle of wine a night' --- ONLY??? then why are you there? Who thought you should be there if it's such an 'ONLY' --- 'I wasn't that bad - I could go for months without having a drink' (I was a serious culprit of this one - forgetting to mention that when I did lift a glass I couldn't stop till I 'fell asleep' ) --- leads me to another one -- 'I never did anyone any harm - worst thing I ever did was fall asleep on the couch' (me again) -- norra CHANCE of getting away with that one in the centre -- for 'fall asleep' they read 'passed out' -- we all know the stories - the justifications - but as Byrdy (I think it was you Byrdy - apologize if not) says -- WHY ARE YOU HERE? - googling for an addiction website - if there isn't a problem.... or a lesser problem...… my husband drank FAR too much - but he truly could take it or leave it - he just joined in with me and loved the buzz --- not in a billion light years would he ever have thought of or needed to google addiction....

[abcowboy]

I met with an old flat mate - some years older than me (could be me maw!) - who is a trained counsellor and was wanting advice and a sounding board. Turns out her son has been in CA (Cocaine Anonymous) for the past 2 years. What she was saying about my drinking, and her sons drug use, was a) they were suppressing / pushing down whatever it is we don't want to deal with (even if it's the simplicity of daily "mundane" life, or something more specific)

Thinks he's above it all............ and we can see where that gets him

And he's not alone - personally I consider it one of the biggest obstacles to getting sober - I heard it in the treatment centre -- 'I only drank half a bottle of wine a night' --- ONLY??? then why are you there? Who thought you should be there if it's such an 'ONLY' --- 'I wasn't that bad - I could go for months without having a drink'

I guess I should preclude this with what Molly said, when I post something, it is my thoughts and words. A lot of the time I use “we” when I really should use “I” but it’s because I think we’re all very much the same if we’re really honest with ourselves, but sometimes that isn’t always the case because we are still very much different people in our individual personalities.

I used three quotes this morning because to me they are all about the same thing, what makes us alcoholics, and why are we so afraid to admit it….

I was afraid to admit it because it was a major blow to my ego, I was less of a man because I couldn’t control something that I should have been able to control. And all those times I tried to quit, used all the silly ways to quit, just kept reinforcing the fact that I couldn’t control my drinking, it controlled me.

I didn’t get into the science behind alcoholism, I didn’t read up on brain chemistry of an alcoholic, I just wondered “why me”, why can’t I control my drinking? It would be like if I got cancer, “why me”? But in the case of cancer, I would run off to the Doc if I thought I had cancer and find out if it was something I’d done to cause it, was it preventable, and most importantly, was it curable. But the last thing I wanted to do was go talk to my Doc about my drinking problem.

When I finally admitted that I had a problem, and knew something had to be done, I decided I had no choice but to seek professional help in the way of a Counsellor. 4 reasons I did that, my Doc strongly recommended it, Bubba had been after me for a long time to get help, I knew from trial and error that I couldn’t quit on my own, and something my Uncle said to me.

It’s not how much you drink that makes you an alcoholic, it’s not even how often you drink, those are just by-products of being an alcoholic, it’s why you drink.

That was one of the first things that my Counsellor said to me, we have to find out why you drink the way you do, why do you need alcohol to cope with things. It didn’t take long to get to the root of my problems, I was holding in all of my emotions, not dealing with them at the time I was experiencing them. It was easier to drink them away rather than face them. We all drank for our own reasons, and once you get to the bottom of it, it makes quitting so much easier.

If you’re a guest or lurker reading this, ask yourself one question, why do I drink the way I do. Once you can answer that honestly, you can start figuring out other ways to handle it and you’ll be on your way to a quit that sticks. And if you can’t figure it out, get help, it’s amazing what Counsellors can do for you….

[Pavati]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Hi, All:

ACCEPTANCE was key. I had to accept that my drinking was unhealthy and I had to quit to keep the life I wanted. I, too, sought help beyond MWO in the form of a therapist. For me, it really helped to have someone "in person" to whom I could not lie, and it became a matter of having her and my husband. I could have always declined to login here, but if I declined an appointment, I know I would have heard about it. I also enlisted the support of my husband right away. I keep reminding him that no matter what I say no matter how many years later, I CAN'T drink.

Cowboy - I would also add that it is how alcohol makes us feel about ourselves. Like Molly, my husband drinks too much, and binges now and again, but there is no way it affects his life, his perception of himself, or how he goes about his day. He doesn't have the continuous internal dialogue that I had.

AND there's nothing I like more than dancing to bad music at a wedding - such low expectations make it all fun (as long as I like the couple and the guests!)

Thanks for the discussion,

[Jude58]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Like many, I knew that I needed help, and deep down, I also knew that I was an alcoholic. I read a book on moderation, but I got about halfway through, and knew that this method would not work for me. I would constantly be waiting for that next drink, just prolonging the agony. Hell, I couldn't even abstain for one day! I was very sick for long time before going to my doctor, and admitting that I had a real problem with alcohol. She drew some bloodwork, (surprise, surprise, my liver enzymes were sky high) and we had a long talk, but I was pretty incoherent at the time. I did have to taper with the alcohol, and spent the better part of a week at home, in a pretty zombie like state. I found the wonderful folks at MWO, and am so thankful to everyone here, but especially to [MENTION=21602]abcowboy[/MENTION] for persuading me to join up. :thanks:

[techie]

Re: United Nations of MWO

I remember some years ago. A dear friend had completely restored a 1967 Corvette Stingray. It was his pride and joy. He went to great expense to acquire all original parts. He called me at work one day saying it is on the road for a few hours and that it was ready for an auto show in Connecticut the next day. Asked if I'd like a road test. He agreed to pick me up from my after work watering hole for a quick ride. I was admittedly a bit sloshed. We were both smokers then, so he allowed me to smoke since the convertible top was down and it was scheduled for detailing early next morning. Not finding my matches. I pushed in his lighter lit my cigarette and threw the lighter out onto the highway. It was not recoverable and we could not find a replacement in time for the auto show. While certainly NOT my most embarrassing drunken misstep, it is one that has haunted me for years. Why, because I lost a childhood friend.


BTW, I really like the exchanges about our brains wiring. Thanks satz. To me, the drink behavior is very similar to other behavioral loops. It is part of how we continually run a program in our minds over and over. You know, how we wake up with the same counter productive thought process every day. The way I got past such continual bad behavior patterns and thinking was by making new neural connections through meditation. We need to think and act greater than these past programs. When we think about a better more abundant future through practices like meditation and yoga, we can rewire our brain to think differently. The brain cannot tell the difference between our old familiar program and a new one we create for ourselves. Sounds like magic. It certainly is magic.

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Counsellor said to me, we have to find out why you drink the way you do, why do you need alcohol to cope with things. It didn’t take long to get to the root of my problems, I was holding in all of my emotions, not dealing with them at the time I was experiencing them. It was easier to drink them away rather than face them. We all drank for our own reasons, and once you get to the bottom of it, it makes quitting so much easier.

THAT is exactly what I said to YS again today. Get to the root of it.
The treatment centre was working on it but maybe he didn't get long enough time and then continuity to get to the dis-ease in his mind that makes him think drinking is a good idea to cope with life.