United Nations of MWO

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Sweetpea posted on Sober Shout Out Thread :

2060Days here��

Amended as had accidentally added 20 days- not that confident!

:egad:
Makes you wonder are any of us confident enough to add 20 days ? Discuss ...........

[abcowboy]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Ya know Satz, there are times when I can say for certain I’ll make it to 4 years sober, and there are times when I pray I can make it through the week. I guess what it means is that we really don’t know, just take it one day at a time as the saying goes...

[NoSugar]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Techie, your specific, clear memory of how you lost your friend shows how much it affected you. Your story touched me. I bet that alone helps you stay on your chosen AF path. Thanks for sharing that with us.

BTW, I really like the exchanges about our brains wiring. Thanks satz. To me, the drink behavior is very similar to other behavioral loops. It is part of how we continually run a program in our minds over and over. You know, how we wake up with the same counter productive thought process every day. The way I got past such continual bad behavior patterns and thinking was by making new neural connections through meditation. We need to think and act greater than these past programs. When we think about a better more abundant future through practices like meditation and yoga, we can rewire our brain to think differently. The brain cannot tell the difference between our old familiar program and a new one we create for ourselves. Sounds like magic. It certainly is magic.

THAT is exactly what I said to YS again today. Get to the root of it.
The treatment centre was working on it but maybe he didn't get long enough time and then continuity to get to the dis-ease in his mind that makes him think drinking is a good idea to cope with life.

The fairly recent work describing addiction as a learning disorder makes it easier for me to understand how I (we?) developed one and how I learned to stop. It also helps us see how after years of drinking normally like Molly described, a problem can develop where it hadn't existed before: Most of Us Still Don’t Get It: Addiction Is a Learning Disorder - Pacific Standard

What it does show, I believe, is that addiction is a learning disorder, a condition where a system designed to motivate us to engage in activities helpful to survival and reproduction develops abnormally and goes awry...

But the system that goes wrong in addiction is designed to make us persist despite negative consequences: If we didn’t have such a mechanism, we’d never push through the difficulties that characterize both love and parenting. Unfortunately when this motivational network gets channeled toward an activity that is destructive to our life’s prospects, it becomes dangerous...

What this means is that addiction isn’t simply a response to a drug or an experience—it is a learned pattern of behavior that involves the use of soothing or pleasant activities for a purpose like coping with stress. This is why simple exposure to a drug cannot cause addiction: The exposure must occur in a context where the person finds the experience pleasant and/or useful and must be deliberately repeated until the brain shifts its processing of the experience from deliberate and intentional to automatic and habitual...

Addiction—whether to sex, drugs, or rock 'n' roll—is a disorder of learning. It’s not a disorder of hedonism or selfishness and it’s not a sign of “character defects.” This learning, of course, involves the brain—but because learning is involved, cultural, social, and environmental factors are critical in shaping it.
If we want to get beyond “Is Sex Addictive?” and “Crack vs. Junk Food: Which Is Worse?” we’ve got to recognize that we’ve been asking the wrong questions. The real issue is what purpose does addictive behavior serve and how can it be replaced with more productive and healthy pursuits—not how can we stop the demon drug or activity of the month. We’ve been doing the equivalent of trying to treat obsessive-compulsive disorder by banning hand sanitizer when what we really need to understand is why and how obsessions and compulsions develop in particular people.

Maia Szalavitz

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Thanks NS
I have passed this on to YS - he will read it and maybe it will make sense rather than the 'disease' theory - which in my opinion helps no-one.
Just another excuse to blame something outside ourselves and exempts us from working at sobriety.

[NoSugar]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Thanks NS
I have passed this on to YS - he will read it and maybe it will make sense rather than the 'disease' theory - which in my opinion helps no-one.
Just another excuse to blame something outside ourselves and exempts us from working at sobriety.

I so hope your boy can find his way out, Satz. He might relate to Marc Lewis' work, which is similar to Szalavitz' : Understanding Addiction

It is so hopeful to look at this as a learning process - we can always learn new things! I have no doubt that I know perfectly well how to drink addictively and that those neural pathways are still there, just like the ones that make it so I can ride a bike or water ski after years of "abstaining". But ---just because I learned how to do something, I don't have to do it!

It sometimes is appealing to relieve stress or boredom in the old, very effective, and easy way but like Techie found, there are other, better ways. They may take more effort but the more you do them, the more natural they become. I hope YS finds something that really grabs him and fills what drink is never going to be able to fill for very long. xx

[NoSugar]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Ya know Satz, there are times when I can say for certain I’ll make it to 4 years sober, and there are times when I pray I can make it through the week. I guess what it means is that we really don’t know, just take it one day at a time as the saying goes...

The biggest relief of my life, ABC, was when I realized I never had to drink again - and, moment by moment, which is all we really have, anyway, I don't drink because I no longer feel compelled to and it is the logical choice (with all the nasty data I've collected!) not to. At the beginning, "ODAT" completely stressed me out because I thought ALL my days were going to be as difficult and stressful as those were. I couldn't imagine living the rest of my life like that! The important thing is that other than some occasional bumps in the road, the AF days get easier as you go along. At some point I started wondering what I'd made such a big fuss about!

To answer your question, @satz123, I feel very confident that I will be AF 20 and 200 and 2000 days from now but that isn't blind confidence and I don't want to get cocky about it. That's why I stay connected here and have emergency contacts in place. I so appreciate the people who have come back to MWO like @brit, @byebyebridgetjones, [MENTION=20929]Ginger999[/MENTION], and @DriftyAlison0 who returned recently and reminded us that we just can't take what we've gained for granted. It is very easy for me to forget what my life was like - I need to be reminded where I was and don't want to be again. And thanks to everyone here for that! xx

[abcowboy]

Agreed [MENTION=18725]NoSugar[/MENTION], I don’t feel like I have to drink at all, heck, I don’t even want to drink! But there are the odd occasions when I think a drink or two would help. But I know better, so I turn to the other things I’ve learned to dal with those situations.

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

The idea we can learn new ways to cope with life appeals to me.
Agree totally that there must always be hope. If an addict comes to the conclusion that they are a lost cause after many relapses and beyond help then we are in dangerous territory.
I think these people are more likely to drink excessively and are less likely to seriously engage with attempts at recovery.
This is the pattern I'm seeing now with YS.

[DriftyAlison0]

Re: United Nations of MWO

I get that to that 1-2 drinks is going to help or at least help me relax and I also got that in my previous 7 year quit. But I know better and know more now then then that 1-2 drinks will not do the trick nor think that its a good idea.

[NoSugar]

Re: United Nations of MWO

I'd tried so many times to quit on my own [MENTION=9094]satz123[/MENTION], I thought I was a lost cause, especially because I wasn't willing to seek in-person help or support. I guess I was waiting for a "rock bottom" or something. When I found online forums, I saw them as a last chance. That seems kind of hyperbolic now but it helped at the time because I convinced myself that if I failed here, that was it. I was going to die drunk. There must have been a nugget of the real, healthy me alive somewhere in there because I did everything I could to make the quit I started here stick and so far it has. I'm willing to keep doing whatever it takes to make it continue. I so hope your son finds something or someone to hold on to and help him learn to live a different, better life. xx

[abcowboy]

I have often heard people say on here that they stay quit because they are not sure how many more quits they have left in them. Yesterday I began to appreciate the meaning of that.

When I read this it brought to mind the people returning to go at another quit again. Which brings to mind the next question, is it harder to quit after a lengthy bout of sobriety? That’s a question that can only be answered by those who have been there. I suspect for me it would be.

I suppose we can relate it to the person who’s drowning, they know trying to get that gasp of air will only kill them, but the instinctive will to survive kicks in and in comes that rush of water instead of air. Is that what happens when we give up on our quits, we want to live again, but the AV overpowers our common sense.

I know I’ve said it numerous times, I can’t ever go back to drinking because I don’t have another quit in me. Maybe it’s another tool I’ve put in my toolbox, be afraid, be very, very afraid of a next drink because that’s what you’ll take to your grave.

I certainly hope I’m never faced with the situation of having to start over, and I commend you all that are doing it! It gives me hope and faith that the human spirit and will to live is still thriving amongst us.

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

With me is was kinda easing my way into it. I stopped drinking first in July 2012 but did not say FOREVER and did not count days.
I KNEW there were things that year and I could cope with some sober but not a trip with drinking family to Australia for 3 weeks. I just knew I wasn't ready - so I planned it and drank for those 3 weeks ....
I fell right back into where I'd been - starting at the Airport with DD looking at me with that judgement in her eyes.
To be honest my eyes were opened on that holiday to how much I depended on alcohol - that once I started that was it....
Then same again in June '13 - 2 weeks in Greece - but this time I had had enough and on my return I said NO MORE.....

I often wonder had I just white knuckled it through those holidays would my quit be as strong - or did my "relapses" help seal the deal in my head?

[starty]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Hello peeps. Re relapse after a long period of sobriety and whether it is harder or not....himmm. Not sure if it is harder per se or just different. I found the first quit and getting to that point of deciding to do so incredibly hard, soul searching and down right terrifying. The alternative of not quitting was terrifying too. Once I had decided to do so and got over my first few weeks, I began to find it exciting cos it was so new. Subsequent quits are not so exciting in that way and no pink cloud was forthcoming. Maybe that is why they are perceived as harder? In some ways it is easier because I know what to expect and when no drinking and "doing the right thing" there is a tremendous sense of peace and a knowledge that life will be OK. On the other side though it can be very tempting to fall into the trap of "Ive done it once, I can do it again thinking" which I have done a number of times since 2014. All very complex

[Pavati]

Re: United Nations of MWO

Hi,

When I first came here, I told everyone that I was planning on quitting forever (so I wouldn't get stuck with people telling me the truth about "moderating" once I reached my drinking levels), but in my head, I would quit for 90 days and then get into moderating. I would be "fixed." I made it three weeks, and then there was a concert I went to - never occurred to me that I could attend a concert sober, so I drank. Ok that evening, but then three weeks of WAY over drinking. I think that it was a last ditch effort to control it that made it so much worse. I logged back on here and gave in - I accepted the fact that I had to quit.

There are times when I am anxious and coming off some sort of adrenaline rush and I really know that a drink would calm me down QUICKLY (I'll give booze that). But I also know that that wouldn't be enough for me. The words that 3June typed here - if only 1, why not none - really resonate with me. I never wanted just one, my whole long drinking career, so why even bother. I don't want just one, I want many. And therefore I don't want any at all. Simple but not easy.

Pav

[satz123]

Re: United Nations of MWO

[MENTION=20191]Pavati[/MENTION] - THAT is exactly my feeling on it. If I can only have 1 or 2 I can't be arsed :haha: so I'll have none.

I wonder if they said we'll put you on a desert Island and you can have as many as you want - never have a hangover 'cos you'd be constantly topping up :egad:
what would we do ?