November Army Thread

[satz123]

Re: November Army Thread

Morning folks, up early as usual, it’s cold one. Benji any day off work is a good day in my book.
So I was thinking about my keeping busy in the early days of sobriety and it having been a must do for me. Now I feel I have moved on from that early phase I think the early rising just as important. Waking early with a plan for the day, a moment of gratitude for having changed my life around and an enthusiasm for what is coming next.
You may recall I recommended sober Dave’s podcasts a while back, they are fantastic, well listening to one last night and hearing the quote “I am not in recovery, I am in discovery” hit the nail on the head for me. I refuse to be labeled as damaged goods, an alckie who will always be different from ‘ordinary’ drinkers.
Seize the day friends!

Nodding here in 100% agreement @tabbers.
I will send a link for podcasts to YS to listen to when he emerges from treatment on Tuesday.

[mollyka]

Re: November Army Thread

Morning! Well I'm certainly not damaged goods and I'm not a different person to ordinary drinkers but I AM a different drinker to ordinary drinkers and no way do I want to forget or deny that!
At work...talk later

[rustop59]

Re: November Army Thread

I AM a different drinker to ordinary drinkers and no way do I want to forget or deny that!
[/QUOTE]

Morning everyone.

That sentence struck a chord with me and it is the number one reason I check in every day. It is the most glorious morning here, cold but perfect for walking. We walked somewhere different this morning, an oak wood and it was beautiful.

Enjoy your time off Satz. I’m away for a night in a hotel tonight. Brook lodge, Macreddin village, never been so looking forward to it.

Good to see you back JC, hope you get the help you need,

[JackieClaire]

Re: November Army Thread

We're in the middle of snow/rain/windy storm girding our loins to go to Tesco. We're lucky to have got away with losing a bit of guttering outside the garage. The S&H's shed is basically a flat pack. There's damage to their conservatory and they're flapping around trying to get someone who'll fix them.

The alcoholic thing depends on who I'm talking to.

You wouldn't believe it but in the time its taken to make this post the sky is the most clear and a beautiful blue.

[Tabbers (a.k.a. KTAB)]

Re: November Army Thread

Hello again ladies, I suppose I am talking about people judging and applying labels. I believe no one posting here is in any doubt that we no longer wish to have alcohol in our lives and it is absolutely nobody else’s business the reasons why. I am very proud of my getting sober but I don’t feel the need to discuss that or anything that has gone on in the past with anyone unless I choose to.
Regarding being damaged I think that is the first line of the 12 step approach and I am not a fan of the the whole higher power and making amends on a personal level but I respect the fact AA has helped so many people and that is their choice. It is still seen as the only real go to way to stop by so many in society, I would like to see that change for there are so I many other ways as we know. Admitting I am powerless is not correct, we all have the power to stop in us, it just not easy but education is the start.

[mollyka]

Re: November Army Thread

Just logging in at lunch hour ...few things I want to say but on my phone..ironically I was just thinking why not log in on work computer....but no...it IS private ...as far as I want it to stay private ...so many people GLORY in others problems or cock ups....I need to trust someone implicitly to impart my inner thoughts. So yeah...laters ...talk then xx

[mollyka]

Re: November Army Thread

Home at last --- oh holy cow -- the library in the nearest town to us is closed at the moment -- so we get all their borrowers.. they like to think as a town that they are quite posh I think and look down their noses at where I live -- but my good god the sense of entitlement they have -- quotes like ' I can't understand why THEY (as in 'us') have such a nice library and ours is tiny' -- they waltz in and out expecting us to bend over backwards for them -- no masks half the time and definitely no library cards -- 'my name is on your computer' --- yeah love -- would you go into a bank and say the same?? oh sick of them - AND I missed half my lunch hour cos they wouldn't go when we were closing.... aaaarrrrrghghghghgh!!!

Hello again ladies, I suppose I am talking about people judging and applying labels. I believe no one posting here is in any doubt that we no longer wish to have alcohol in our lives and it is absolutely nobody else’s business the reasons why. I am very proud of my getting sober but I don’t feel the need to discuss that or anything that has gone on in the past with anyone unless I choose to.
Regarding being damaged I think that is the first line of the 12 step approach and I am not a fan of the the whole higher power and making amends on a personal level but I respect the fact AA has helped so many people and that is their choice. It is still seen as the only real go to way to stop by so many in society, I would like to see that change for there are so I many other ways as we know. Admitting I am powerless is not correct, we all have the power to stop in us, it just not easy but education is the start.

okay -- well I'm no apologist for AA and definitely not for the religious aspect of it -- I'm a self proclaimed agnostic at least -- so yeah -- like they say in AA ' take what you want and leave the rest' -- and that's what I did.. What I did take out of it was the utter sense of pride that I - and everyone who attends AA - take/took out of sobriety... meeting other's in every walk of life -- people from homeless people to self employed - to politicians - to celebrities -- folks in all trades and professions -- with one thing in common -- pride in sobriety... so I will always give that organisation thanks for making me feel like that...
I never felt I was damaged in an ongoing fashion - when I was drinking I was definitely damaged -- broken in fact... and as long as I don't drink -- I am not damaged -- neither am I powerless -- but if I drink - I don't have power over alcohol -- I'm addicted to it -- if I use... so I don't --- that's all really....many have a mistaken view of AA - and like any organisation of course there are zealots in there and misinformation -- and yes I agree there are other ways to get and stay sober than AA -- but for an awful lot of people the lifestyle that is part and parcel of membership of AA is the way to go -- tbh I think they could do with a bit of PR --- but I'm very glad I tried it... I don't THINK I need it -- but like any problem drinker/addict/alcoholic.... I'm one bend of my arm away from another drink and I will not forget that.... just my opinion...

[mollyka]

Re: November Army Thread

We're in the middle of snow/rain/windy storm girding our loins to go to Tesco. We're lucky to have got away with losing a bit of guttering outside the garage. The S&H's shed is basically a flat pack. There's damage to their conservatory and they're flapping around trying to get someone who'll fix them.

The alcoholic thing depends on who I'm talking to.

You wouldn't believe it but in the time its taken to make this post the sky is the most clear and a beautiful blue.

Would you not just go and fix their shed for them Jacks:smiles:

It's great to have you back posting -- and I'm sure there are times you really don't want to -- none of what you are going through is easy -- but it's great to see you xxx

oh and in case anyone thinks I was being narky about the AA post -- I really wasn't -- but sometimes -- particularly round here on MWO -- I feel that there MAY be some who post (not neccessarily in the Army - just generally on the forum) who MAY need AA and the additional support it offers -- and I just feel that it gets a bad press -- it certainly wasn't what I thought it was going to be.. and if I ever thought I may be tempted -- or going through a rough time -- it would be AA I'd be running back to -- I don't know that an online forum is adequate for lots of folk -- it wasn't for me -- and I do know that LOADS of folks find it more than enough and that's wonderful -- but maybe just not everybody -- that's all -- that's the only reason I get on my bandwagon... said with luuuuuurve:welldone:

[IamMary]

Re: November Army Thread

Here Molly, are you calling my Ma & Da posh :haha:
I totally get what you are saying there, definitely an element of 'looking down one's nose' (not my clan mind you).

Sorry, only a quick one. Watching a movie with everyone so couldn't get on.

My brother is over 10 years in AA and swears by it.he goes to several meetings a week, whether he's here or abroad. This is my equivalent and so far so good :happy2:

[Tabbers (a.k.a. KTAB)]

Re: November Army Thread

Good morning and happy sober Sunday. It wasn’t my intention to knock AA or anyone for whom it works, as we always say 100% whatever works and whatever it takes getting sober and staying that way happily is what it is all about. Personally having been to about a dozen AA meetings in three different cities I didn’t find one that I sat comfortably with. Maybe it’s the whole surrendering to a higher power and admitting I am powerless or sitting in a room full of people talking about their issues that isn’t for me. I have also tried one on one counseling and that didn’t fit right either. The point I was really trying to make was it isn’t just a choice between AA and an online forum as it was 20 years ago when first I tried to address my drinking. There is a whole sober movement in the past few years with people from all shades of problem drinking and some who just make sobriety a lifestyle choice. For instance reading/ listening to people like Annie Grace and William Porter explain how alcohol effects our brains and bodies can help educate us into why we behave in certain ways and understanding is a better approach for people like me than a 12 step program, a whole mindset change if you will. There are now many sober groups set up that offer support and advice and in the UK for instance there are regular social gatherings that are not 12 step approach and they quite clearly work too.
When I was growing up it seemed everyone smoked and it was seen as sophisticated by many, just take a look at some of the old films and the way smoking was portrayed. But education about the dangers of what it was doing to our bodies and societal changes in attitudes have completely turned that around despite the best efforts of the hugely powerful tobacco industry. I honestly believe alcohol will go the same way, it will take many decades but I am strongly convinced it will happen. A look at the big rise in alcohol free alcohol type drinks and the advertising surrounding them would tell there is a growing demand or they wouldn’t be being newly created and sold by the big brewers. I hope I am right for it would be a better world and lives for so many in the future without the addictive ethanol being so acceptable and even revered by in society.

[satz123]

Re: November Army Thread

It is still seen as the only real go to way to stop by so many in society, I would like to see that change for there are so I many other ways as we know. Admitting I am powerless is not correct, we all have the power to stop in us, it just not easy but education is the start.

YS says that is why the treatment centre didn't work for him last time. Too focused on the AA side of things. Higher power, powerlessness, always in recovery didn't float his boat.
Four years on he has learned he must do as Molls says above & take what he can - work on it & just put up with the rest. Like you say Tabbers AA is still seen as the only real go to way to stop by so many in society and going off trying to find other ways is exhausting & confusing.
Now he knows the higher power is not meant to be the holy God in the sky we were brought up with - but the higher power within US.

It's a bit like the Catholic religion I was brought up with.
We knew most of it was WAY out there & (I don't want to say rubbish ) made no sense at all.
So anyone with a modicum of intelligence took the good bits & disregarded the rest because we knew it was meant for a different era where people were uneducated and did as they were told .

We liked Baptism, Communion, marriage etc ..... they were nice.
But Hell - Heaven - Purgatory & Limbo ...... spare me please.
The priests were God's representatives on earth - ehhhh NO !!
No sex unless you want babies - so no contraceptives for women.
Women were seen as inferior - still are - in the Catholic church.

So no - there is no external higher power going to fix us - the power is within us.

Went off on a tangent there - sorry !

[mollyka]

Re: November Army Thread

YS says that is why the treatment centre didn't work for him last time. Too focused on the AA side of things. Higher power, powerlessness, always in recovery didn't float his boat.
Four years on he has learned he must do as Molls says above & take what he can - work on it & just put up with the rest. Like you say Tabbers AA is still seen as the only real go to way to stop by so many in society and going off trying to find other ways is exhausting & confusing.
Now he knows the higher power is not meant to be the holy God in the sky we were brought up with - but the higher power within US.

It's a bit like the Catholic religion I was brought up with.
We knew most of it was WAY out there & (I don't want to say rubbish ) made no sense at all.
So anyone with a modicum of intelligence took the good bits & disregarded the rest because we knew it was meant for a different era where people were uneducated and did as they were told .

We liked Baptism, Communion, marriage etc ..... they were nice.
But Hell - Heaven - Purgatory & Limbo ...... spare me please.
The priests were God's representatives on earth - ehhhh NO !!
No sex unless you want babies - so no contraceptives for women.
Women were seen as inferior - still are - in the Catholic church.

So no - there is no external higher power going to fix us - the power is within us.

Went off on a tangent there - sorry !

Agree agree agree!! and I'm so pleased YS has taken that on board...that was a big break through for many down there..I can't add to what you say..it's all there xxx

[mollyka]

Re: November Army Thread

Good morning and happy sober Sunday. It wasn’t my intention to knock AA or anyone for whom it works, as we always say 100% whatever works and whatever it takes getting sober and staying that way happily is what it is all about. Personally having been to about a dozen AA meetings in three different cities I didn’t find one that I sat comfortably with. Maybe it’s the whole surrendering to a higher power and admitting I am powerless or sitting in a room full of people talking about their issues that isn’t for me. I have also tried one on one counseling and that didn’t fit right either. The point I was really trying to make was it isn’t just a choice between AA and an online forum as it was 20 years ago when first I tried to address my drinking. There is a whole sober movement in the past few years with people from all shades of problem drinking and some who just make sobriety a lifestyle choice. For instance reading/ listening to people like Annie Grace and William Porter explain how alcohol effects our brains and bodies can help educate us into why we behave in certain ways and understanding is a better approach for people like me than a 12 step program, a whole mindset change if you will. There are now many sober groups set up that offer support and advice and in the UK for instance there are regular social gatherings that are not 12 step approach and they quite clearly work too.
When I was growing up it seemed everyone smoked and it was seen as sophisticated by many, just take a look at some of the old films and the way smoking was portrayed. But education about the dangers of what it was doing to our bodies and societal changes in attitudes have completely turned that around despite the best efforts of the hugely powerful tobacco industry. I honestly believe alcohol will go the same way, it will take many decades but I am strongly convinced it will happen. A look at the big rise in alcohol free alcohol type drinks and the advertising surrounding them would tell there is a growing demand or they wouldn’t be being newly created and sold by the big brewers. I hope I am right for it would be a better world and lives for so many in the future without the addictive ethanol being so acceptable and even revered by in society.

couple of points you make there Tabs --- and call me a cynical old woman if you like -- OR call me a far worser alcoholic than you are/were -- but when I was drinking problematically -- yeah of course the thought of the damage I was doing my body ran through my head -- or rather -- literally in one ear and out the other.... I wanted to keep drinking no matter what --- I couldn't even imagine my life without it... it consoled me - it transformed me --- it made me the person (I THOUGHT) I wanted to be.... life without seemed pointless -- to the extent that when my marriage was in trouble -- my first thoughts (well -- maybe my 2nd thoughts) were 'omg I could get an apt. and they'd leave me alone and I could live my life as I choose' - in other words --- drinking... now maybe education may catch people before they get into trouble with the sauce -- but by the time someone googles AA or online forums or 'problems with alcohol' --- I don't think any education or knowledge will change that for the hard core.... like my counsellor down in Áiseiri said to me -- 'leave your brains at the front door' ---

Also another point -- when I moved to the first house after I got married -- it was about 2 miles from the nearest train station -- and I remember thinking -- they'll put another stop nearer my house cos there's a lot of houses here --- 43 years later -- there's no train station there -- it was wishful thinking -- I (cynically - I know) think the alcohol free drink is a fad -- it came about for designated drivers imo -- and grew some legs -- but now that they are charging as much for alcohol free as they do for alcohol -- imo it will die out.. maybe the beer may last --- that's about it really -- it's like when I quit smoking I proclaimed that cigarettes would be 20 euros a packet cos they are so bad for you -- nah -- they put on a pathetic 50 cents once a year in the budget..

I would love to think you are right --- and I will happily eat my hat if you are... I'm doubtful tho xx

[JackieClaire]

Re: November Army Thread

Morning,
I was worser that you Molls, :happy2: but I did have that fab doctor who did my last de-tox and a fab counselor. I think the planets aligned that week just for me.
I long for the days that addiction is treated the same way as any ailment. An ailment we can tell people without them running for cover in case they catch it.
What you're thinking about is SMART..................I've been to a few and its growing but like everything it costs money to hire a room, but its growing slowly.

[MENTION=9094]satz123[/MENTION]................sounds like your lad has got it. Take what you need and bin the rest.

No................ I'm not going to fix the S&H's shed.................he's a big boy now and allowed a real hammer. He doesn't need his Bob the Builder book anymore.

Sorry I'm having one of my low days.

[rustop59]

Re: November Army Thread

Afternoon everyone

Here JC have a :hug::hug:, Quick check in. Great conversations going and lots to think about. I hope you are not right Molly and that it will go in the same way as smoking but the other side of that is they will replace it with something else e.g drugs. In fact I would say that is what is happening with some of the young people at the moment. However just back from SuperValu and for the first time ever saw a stand dedicated to alcohol free drinks outside the off licence section.

Had a lovely night away and the best meal we’ve had in a long time. Off now to take the dogs out and enjoy the bit of sun that is peeping out.