December Army 2022

[mollyka]

Re: December Army 2022

t as soon as antidepressants are mentioned everyone I know steps away which is such a pity.



And yes this is very true too.
We don't pay for anything like gym etc we don't give him money but ....... what he gets on the dole is all his and he gets all the comforts of home without paying for anything.
I was holding off for a while before asking for housekeeping money - BIG MISTAKE I'd say.
out doesn't seem to have a lasting effect on him.
Being carried from the local Pharmacy into my car by 3 men , his father having to literally drag him inch by inch into the house to leave him on the floor, Rosie going into his room to look for and finding food in the bed and on the floor, not washing for weeks on end
missing birthdays, Christmas, holidays, visits to his Nan, having to lie constantly. Thousands spent on treatment. This is just what we know of.
If none of this has hit a nerve then I don't know what will.
None of this has been enough to stop him from relapsing after a few weeks.

Well maybe take each of those points one at a time -- he is like a child - so treat him like a child -- you have some things in your control so use that.

#1 - I would 100% take housekeeping money -- and plenty of it.. and as a mam who had GREAT difficulty getting one of mine to hand up every week make sure he has a standing order to your account so it comes automatically - otherwise you'll be dependent on his moods or circumstances every week.

#2 - maybe instead of being sad that he misses all those family milestones - maybe tell him he's not invited in the first place - reason to give him that you don't know what state he'll be in and you don't want him ruining anything -- might -- just MIGHT make him think

#3 - Quitting drink to someone who isn't ready to quit is like a death in the family -- anti-depressants won't help - they didn't help me - might as well have taken smarties - maybe a year or two down the road of sobriety his 'true' state of anxiety or depression may be manifested and then certainly they may be a wonderful help -- but in the mailstrom of drinking/not drinking -- imo it's a pointless exercise -- anything precisely for anxiety like Xanax etc. he would just use for an extra 'high'.

#4 - you mention the 'comforts' of home -- yes he needs a roof over his head -- but he doesn't need comforts -- even if he only has 100 euros a week left from his dole that's plenty of money to buy comforts -- be it biscuits or clothes...

and finally --- if you can -- take the video's -- show him -- it mightn't work the first time - or the tenth time -- but who knows -- maybe somewhere -- someday -- down the road - he'll look at himself being a disgrace and somehow rumble up some self respect and grab it -- rehab won't work - it's been normalised at this stage to him - the money is just there to pay for it - no payback -- save it for (and at this stage you WILL know 'this time is different' ) the true rock bottom.

I'm so sad for you typing that out -- it's a horrible situation to be in -- particularly for us addicts - cos we know it's not really easy - as lots of non-addicts seem to think 'just quit drinking' --- but harden your heart - he's making yours and MrS's lives intolerable at this stage and it's just not fair.. xxxx

[starty]

Re: December Army 2022

Oh god Satz I dont know what to say but reading Molls posts it seems to make sense. Especially making him pay housekeeping at source. I know some addicts that cannot have ANY money or they will blow it on pills. Not ideal because it is just white knuckling instead of embracing sobriety. But why should he have money when you are working to keep him? Sorry, might be too harsh. I took ads once I was sober to help with anxiety and they did help me. However, the booze will negate any positives the pills give. I still get anxiety and now I am taking HRT which again helps but it isnt the be all. Its something that I have to learn to deal with and I suspect thats the same for most.

Molls, today I found out why the inlays were showing a supreme lack of empathy. They did not get that leukaemia was cancer. I have spelled it out today and they are shocked. I dont mean to shock them but they need to know . The other thing is I think they might not be all there. At 87 I guess its par for the course in some cases. Anyway, I am less angry

[IamMary]

Re: December Army 2022

What a brilliant post Molly.
The rock bottom question is interesting. For most of us here, we had family, spouse, jobs, mortgages, responsibilities.
YS isn't tied to any of that right now so his rock bottom might might be buried futher down. Maybe.

Long shot, could you get him to volunteer in a school or with kids/adults with disabilities? Answering phones. Every organisation seems to be crying out for people...

Agree on taking as much as you can off him (you'll be loaded with your extra hours too!!)

Glad you sorted that out [MENTION=22456]starty[/MENTION]. Maybe a bit of head in the sand too..

[mollyka]

Re: December Army 2022

Oh god Satz I dont know what to say but reading Molls posts it seems to make sense. Especially making him pay housekeeping at source. I know some addicts that cannot have ANY money or they will blow it on pills. Not ideal because it is just white knuckling instead of embracing sobriety. But why should he have money when you are working to keep him? Sorry, might be too harsh. I took ads once I was sober to help with anxiety and they did help me. However, the booze will negate any positives the pills give. I still get anxiety and now I am taking HRT which again helps but it isnt the be all. Its something that I have to learn to deal with and I suspect thats the same for most.

Molls, today I found out why the inlays were showing a supreme lack of empathy. They did not get that leukaemia was cancer. I have spelled it out today and they are shocked. I dont mean to shock them but they need to know . The other thing is I think they might not be all there. At 87 I guess its par for the course in some cases. Anyway, I am less angry

Ah the poor old things -- and a relief to you and himself in that they weren't just being utterly careless and cruel really -- but of course if it's more than a wee bit of elderly vagueness the worry may be that it'll progress? At least they have each other -- again --- I do not want old age... just don't!
Hope the lunch went okay ?!

What a brilliant post Molly.
The rock bottom question is interesting. For most of us here, we had family, spouse, jobs, mortgages, responsibilities.
YS isn't tied to any of that right now so his rock bottom might might be buried futher down. Maybe.

Long shot, could you get him to volunteer in a school or with kids/adults with disabilities? Answering phones. Every organisation seems to be crying out for people...

Agree on taking as much as you can off him (you'll be loaded with your extra hours too!!)

Glad you sorted that out [MENTION=22456]starty[/MENTION]. Maybe a bit of head in the sand too..

Yup the rock bottom is so variable -- there was a woman I remember speaking at an AA meeting...but she used to occasionally drink a half bottle of wine and she was riddled with self disgust and was horrified at her lack of self control... her rock bottom was every bit as valid as mine or yours or YS's -- or anyone....

so when someone says - or implies - on here that they 'weren't as bad as........(insert whatever or whoever!)' that's just nonsense -- there'll always be less bad or more bad than anyone else unless we are dead.....

[satz123]

Re: December Army 2022

Well maybe take each of those points one at a time -- he is like a child - so treat him like a child -- you have some things in your control so use that.

#1 - I would 100% take housekeeping money -- and plenty of it.. and as a mam who had GREAT difficulty getting one of mine to hand up every week make sure he has a standing order to your account so it comes automatically - otherwise you'll be dependent on his moods or circumstances every week.

#2 - maybe instead of being sad that he misses all those family milestones - maybe tell him he's not invited in the first place - reason to give him that you don't know what state he'll be in and you don't want him ruining anything -- might -- just MIGHT make him think

#3 - Quitting drink to someone who isn't ready to quit is like a death in the family -- anti-depressants won't help - they didn't help me - might as well have taken smarties - maybe a year or two down the road of sobriety his 'true' state of anxiety or depression may be manifested and then certainly they may be a wonderful help -- but in the mailstrom of drinking/not drinking -- imo it's a pointless exercise -- anything precisely for anxiety like Xanax etc. he would just use for an extra 'high'.

#4 - you mention the 'comforts' of home -- yes he needs a roof over his head -- but he doesn't need comforts -- even if he only has 100 euros a week left from his dole that's plenty of money to buy comforts -- be it biscuits or clothes...

and finally --- if you can -- take the video's -- show him -- it mightn't work the first time - or the tenth time -- but who knows -- maybe somewhere -- someday -- down the road - he'll look at himself being a disgrace and somehow rumble up some self respect and grab it -- rehab won't work - it's been normalised at this stage to him - the money is just there to pay for it - no payback -- save it for (and at this stage you WILL know 'this time is different' ) the true rock bottom.

I'm so sad for you typing that out -- it's a horrible situation to be in -- particularly for us addicts - cos we know it's not really easy - as lots of non-addicts seem to think 'just quit drinking' --- but harden your heart - he's making yours and MrS's lives intolerable at this stage and it's just not fair.. xxxx

Thanks for that Molls :hug: that last sentence hit home with me because it's precisely what I was doing. Putting myself in his shoes, making excuses and generally making his life easy so he could stay sober. Well ! that didn't work out too well (
Whereas MrS & his sister are just straight down the line & angry - "why can't you stay stopped" ??

But having seen him over the past 4 weeks - I too am asking WHY??? Why go back to sitting alone in your room drinking. Going nowhere. Unable to do anything except drink. WHY go back to it ???

I suppose I had it easy - once I managed to stop and realised life was better without alcohol - there was NO WAY I was going back to that half-life. In the end I hated hated hated it. He doesn't. He is still under the illusion that he is a better / smarter / witty person when he has 'a few drinks' ........ jesus !
YES ! time to dig out that video .....

Therein lies the difference so I need to stop thinking I can compare myself to him - he has gone way beyond anywhere I ever was.

Ye know what ? I have a pain in my arse letting him drain all my energy, his father & his sister's energy with HIS problem.
Now even the Army's energy trying to help us figure it out. ::

[satz123]

Re: December Army 2022

Molls, today I found out why the inlays were showing a supreme lack of empathy. They did not get that leukaemia was cancer. I have spelled it out today and they are shocked. I dont mean to shock them but they need to know . The other thing is I think they might not be all there. At 87 I guess its par for the course in some cases. Anyway, I am less angry

@starty I've noticed with reaching a big age comes a lifetime of experience of dealing with all sorts and as a result older folk develop a nonchalant attitude to others' sickness & even to death.

They become like children again and the whole world should revolve around THEM and what is happening to THEM

Working where I do I think I'm on a fast track to that nonchalant attitude :haha:

[mollyka]

Re: December Army 2022

[/B]
Thanks for that Molls :hug: that last sentence hit home with me because it's precisely what I was doing. Putting myself in his shoes, making excuses and generally making his life easy so he could stay sober. Well ! that didn't work out too well (
Whereas MrS & his sister are just straight down the line & angry - "why can't you stay stopped" ??

But having seen him over the past 4 weeks - I too am asking WHY??? Why go back to sitting alone in your room drinking. Going nowhere. Unable to do anything except drink. WHY go back to it ???

I suppose I had it easy - once I managed to stop and realised life was better without alcohol - there was NO WAY I was going back to that half-life. In the end I hated hated hated it. He doesn't. He is still under the illusion that he is a better / smarter / witty person when he has 'a few drinks' ........ jesus !
YES ! time to dig out that video .....

Therein lies the difference so I need to stop thinking I can compare myself to him - he has gone way beyond anywhere I ever was.

Ye know what ? I have a pain in my arse letting him drain all my energy, his father & his sister's energy with HIS problem.
Now even the Army's energy trying to help us figure it out. ::

Oh bless...well you can bring it here and write it down...it'll never drain our energy cos we don't know him...so don't bottle it up...has to help being able to vent without repercussions...
You know and I know our lives are easier without it but.......all of us here have lived our lives...and I don't mean in an age way....but Mary is way younger than us but she too has had her wild days ....we are all mothers and some even grannies....so it was 'time'....I bet he's feeling shocking sorry for himself and yes...your 'understanding' is probably the last thing he needs...he will affect your health or MrS's health if he carries on like this...my family said the uncertainty was worse than the drinking...be aware of that too and make HIM aware of that....hugs all the way xxxx

[rustop59]

Re: December Army 2022

Good morning everyone

Wonderful posts last night. Satz is not the only one with a book in her, your posts were really insightful Molly. Hope it helps to get it down in writing Satz. As the others say it is not fair on you and Mr S.

Glad you cleared that up with the in-laws Starty. Old people do become very self absorbed. The older I get the more I understand it though.

Snow last night so no early walk this morning. The roads are still too slippy. Hope to get out in a while. Dentist later, that’s my plan for the day.

[satz123]

Re: December Army 2022

Good morning everyone

Wonderful posts last night. Satz is not the only one with a book in her, your posts were really insightful Molly. Hope it helps to get it down in writing Satz. As the others say it is not fair on you and Mr S.

Glad you cleared that up with the in-laws Starty. Old people do become very self absorbed. The older I get the more I understand it though.

Snow last night so no early walk this morning. The roads are still too slippy. Hope to get out in a while. Dentist later, that’s my plan for the day.

I HAVE to get out & bring Rosie for her Christmas 'do'

How do you get away without a walk Rusters ?

[rustop59]

Re: December Army 2022

I HAVE to get out & bring Rosie for her Christmas 'do'

How do you get away without a walk Rusters ?

If it’s lashing rain they don’t want to go (big fella will go out in anything) but he does not nag. Hubby said he appeared to be afraid of the snow last night!

[satz123]

Re: December Army 2022

If it’s lashing rain they don’t want to go (big fella will go out in anything) but he does not nag. Hubby said he appeared to be afraid of the snow last night!

:haha:

[mollyka]

Re: December Army 2022

I HAVE to get out & bring Rosie for her Christmas 'do'

How do you get away without a walk Rusters ?

Max is every bit as happy with half hour of 'fetch' with a ball in the garden as a walk...not every day obviously but every now and again...he's not that keen on the cold either as he has a short coat. .a 'do' in the garden is grand cos Joe does the pick up!!

[satz123]

Re: December Army 2022

Max is every bit as happy with half hour of 'fetch' with a ball in the garden as a walk...not every day obviously but every now and again...he's not that keen on the cold either as he has a short coat. .a 'do' in the garden is grand cos Joe does the pick up!!

Molls - when I said 'do' I meant hair 'do' :haha: - her Christmas hair 'do'
Rosie will do nothing in the garden.
FFS have to go out in the the iberian weather about 9 tonight for the last wee wee .......

Rosie Christmas '22.jpg

[mollyka]

Re: December Army 2022

Molls - when I said 'do' I meant hair 'do' :haha: - her Christmas hair 'do'
Rosie will do nothing in the garden.
FFS have to go out in the the iberian weather about 9 tonight for the last wee wee .......

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6572[/ATTACH]

Haha...poor Max never had a 'do'...he has no hair haha!
Snot that cold here tonight...had a lovely afternoon...Joe gave me my Christmas present in advance ( don't think any of you gonna be that impressed...but I'm over the moon!)...he's making me 2 hardwood raised beds for my tunnel...I'm beyond excited.. so tomorrow will be finishing them off and then I'll fill them with compost etc...yay!!!

[rustop59]

Re: December Army 2022

Haha...poor Max never had a 'do'...he has no hair haha!
Snot that cold here tonight...had a lovely afternoon...Joe gave me my Christmas present in advance ( don't think any of you gonna be that impressed...but I'm over the moon!)...he's making me 2 hardwood raised beds for my tunnel...I'm beyond excited.. so tomorrow will be finishing them off and then I'll fill them with compost etc...yay!!!

Now that’s my kind of present. Exactly what you want. Two of ours don’t need do’s, himself probably could do with one but we don’t take him, he just sheds all over the place. I asked for new hiking boots, wear them 7 days a week and it’s what I need. Shout out to JC, she has not been here in a day or two. Hope pa-in-law ok.