Nancy is so RIGHT

[Mags]

Nancy wrote in another thread

"I think that the prevailing view is that alcoholism is a disease and clearly there are people out there who don't want to view themselves as diseased and go sit in a room and call themselves alcholics. There is a lot of room for a more progressive view about alcoholism, including acknowledgement that society pushes drinks on people and many in the "normal" category are in fact just binge drinkers who may not black out and function well. The social obstacles for people trying to address the problem are formidable as many feel like outcastss if they don't drink. That is a societal problem for sure because alcohol has such a huge place.

It would be wonderful to see more treatment options emerge aside from AA. I think AA set out to destigmatize the problem but in doing so it introduced a new stigma."

This is so right on target, that it is amazing. Thank you so much, Nancy. I have spent so many hours sitting in AA meetings and so totally wasting my time. I have never seen such a bunch of liars. That includes myself. When it comes to your turn to speak, you just say whatever will get you to the next person in the row. At MWO we don't have to lie and be constantly ashamed of ourselves like they do at AA. I really don't think we lie to each other - we don't have to. I like honesty.

I also agree that Nancy is so right in saying that society pushes drinking on us - everyone in a profession knows about the lunches, office parties, after work "go out for a drink" sessions where so much crucial work can get done. Then society plays God in saying you drank too much. To be honest, women are more vulnerable to criticism in this realm than men. (Good ol' boys and all that). OK, try to order a nonalcoholic drink in that setting - then all the red lights go flashing off!

Yes, Nancy, we do need another model than the AA one. Do you realize that the AA book was written in the 1930's??? Has anyone here actually read it? I have. It is very demeaning to women and is totally out of context in today's world. I honestly think it is time to throw that one out with the sin of showing your ankles.

But the AA model still dominates. So if I have been AF for a long time and decide to have 1/2 glass of wine on a special occasion I am strongly criticized by my husband and my shrink. I am going back to totally AF, that's not a problem for me - just to avoid the criticisms. But can't anyone ever treat me like an adult who has judgement and who is in control and who knows what she is doing? I guess not. That's the AA mentality.

RJ has worked so hard to let us all be free and not be shackled by the constraints of these narrow societal interpretations. That is her great gift to us. It is unfortunate that she is still ahead of her time.

[amethyst]

Nancy is so RIGHT

Mags;156828 wrote: Nancy wrote in another thread

[RJ has worked so hard to let us all be free and not be shackled by the constraints of these narrow societal interpretations. That is her great gift to us. It is unfortunate that she is still ahead of her time.

Mags, I so agree!

[Determinator]

Nancy is so RIGHT

yep, time to end this era of witchburning trials......time for society to grow up and realize this is a very common disease and start offering some affordable treatment options too.

[Determinator]

Nancy is so RIGHT

I had to pay a 3 thousand dollar deductible WITH insurance to get a 3 day detox....and this is the year 2007? puke! we should take away welfare and instead provide treatment for people with genuine problems to overcome.

[imatree]

Nancy is so RIGHT

When I discovered MWO I made a commitment in my own mind and heart that if it ended up working for me that I would start a local group. Imagine if four or seven of us, or two or five, could plan to meet at the diner down the road to have a cup of coffee, say whatever we felt like, without having to begin with defining ourselves by our addictiom but instead meet one another as human beings with a common hurdle. No doctrine, no steps, no rules.

Thanks Mags, for quoting Nancy. I had missed that. I had all but forgotten that idea I had. Not sure if it's a good one. But sure as hell, something needs to be done to reform society's perception. I REFUSE to go to AA, always have always will. My parents were in and out of it. Not sure what about my childhood experiences of those meeting places gave me a bad vibe, but it runs deep.

And the program has helped many, I give them that. And hallelujah to those for whom it has worked. My father started drinking heavily when he was 14. Alcohol made him a monster of a step-father and father of a total of 7 kids - one of whom (his own) killed himself at 16, the rest of which are drunks. Then he quit. It took many trials during my childhood after my brother committed suicide, but he quit.

Nonetheless.... what a shame that AA has borne a definition of what it means to have a drinking problem, and how sad that so many see this to be the only effective solution for addiction. Because I'll tell you what - I am not the kind of drinker and person my father was and I don't have any use for the sort of doctrine that dragged that man out of hell and redeemed him of all his sins. Just because he was able to sit around in a smoky room several times a week and say "Hi. My name is Jim, and I'm an alcoholic." There are plenty more who quit their vice via other means who are not accorded such redemption.

[Prest4time]

Nancy is so RIGHT

Wow...
Almost scared to reply to this one, but it resonates so true. I am surrounded by those who are addicted to all other sorts of "other" things. But the alcoholic thing is such a stigma. Its like the worst of the worst. The only thing worse is to be addicted to drugs I guess.

It would be interesting to talk about the women who struggle with alcohol because for so long, AA personified the men. But this site is like a "coming out" of women who share this but cannot fit the AA thing. And I think that is true for men too -- the whole AA concept. But it just seems "okay" to go to a meeting if you are a guy, but try showing up looking like you have it all together as a woman. I tried it once, and literally ran out. It was probably a bad group of people and I've heard there are great groups.

But bottom line, alcohol is the only disease you can go purchase yourself at the store. I dont see bottles of Cancer there. Every other abuse is just labeled as a "compulsion".

I totally believe in heriditary things being passed down, as much as genetic if not more behavior-learned. But that doesnt mean we have a "disease." But we always have our free will to choose. Nobody put a gun to my head and told me to drink. I did it on my own free will, and by my own free will, I will choose to stop.

Its a choice, not a disease.

[nancy]

Nancy is so RIGHT

moving on

Well no doubt Bill W would have refined his approach. He did so much good but there are more ways to do something and a program should change as new information emerges.

It's interesting that we know all the nicotine drugs and yet never hear about naltrexone and campral. And of course the meetings shouldn't serve up loads of sugary snacks and caffeine and they should not be all smoky. There should be more of a nutritionally based focus.

Also, I am not comfortable having people expect me to speak, and every time I speak I have to say I am an alcoholic. I have had much deeper conversations on this website. I used to cringe when they passed by me in the AA groups. And then newcomers were encouraged to speak. I hated every minute of it. I just learned to say "Pass" when my turn came.

I really think there should not be a cookie cutter approach to treatment. We are all different, have very different motivating factors and histories, and no doubt some benefit by this very open approach of AA. But what about everyone else?

Imatree, like your idea about a small group meeting.

Check out scooby's original thread, from which my comments came, Alcohol-induced coma.
She would like to do something in the community to help ease alcohol problems.

[Guest]

Nancy is so RIGHT

AA........simply not an option!!!

Would just like to say that from what I have read on here, I think AA adopts a very hard-liner approach and tries to dominate people. On the other hand, I acknowledge that many have been successful with AA and state it as having saved their lives.

I think we are all here as we hope to recover from our alcohol dependancy, and most of us have thought (even if only in our darkest hours) that we will do whatever it takes. Despite not finding AA`s approach particularly appealing, I may well have considered it at some point, if I thought it truly were an option. Sadly, for so many it is not, as not everyone who attends keeps the presence of others private and so individuals can become know as "see her there.......that`s her that`s in the AA"..........I shudder to think!!!

What`s even more infuriating is how society berates alcoholics whilst blatantly promoting alcohol. I think it`s so very sad that we have this desperate need of anonymity, but this society, of which we are all part, provokes this need in us.

The U.K. Govt. has now decided that all alcohol must state on the btl./can the no. of units each drink equals. I think this is to come into effect in 2008. Perhaps this is our society`s first tiny acknowledgement that it has played an active part in our dependancy..........

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