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**mimi911** · October 8, 2011, 11:03 PM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

:goodjob:I can't see any benefit to stopping the supplements. Your body has been abused for 10 years and the supplements are helping to replace all the nutrients that you lost over time.

What you are doing with the sups and the exercise is healthy. Keep up the good work.

**Supercrew** · October 8, 2011, 11:05 PM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

Believe it or not most people who quit drinking do so without dietary supplements. I think alot of it is mental. Some supplements do have the ability to change your mood and maybe help with the cravings a little bit, and if it is working for you right now why even think about cutting back now?

Keep taking your daily action by taking your supplements, working out and visiting the forum, then once you get a good 60 days under your belt reevaluate and maybe cut back on some of the stuff you are taking in a controled manner and see how you react. If the cravings reappear if you take one of the supplements away, then continue to take it.

Once you are no longer physically dependent on alcohol which takes 3 or 4 days to clear your system and detox, the rest of the cravings are just a mental obsession, not a true physical urge. All progress is good progress, but from my experience and from what I have heard it sometimes takes a few months or longer to get the mental obsession to disappear. I read a good book when I started my recovery a little over a year ago called "the Craving Brain" by Ronald Ruden that I would recommend to anyone who is curious why are brains react the way they do.

I don't take as much of a supplemental cocktail as you do, I take 100 mg's of HTP twice a day, B-1, B-6, St John's Wort, Folic acid, a Super B complex, and a Multi Vitamin, and I have taken them religiously for the last 9 months, but I did my first 188 day supplement free. So for me I think it might be a little more of a placebo effect. The real key for me was making sure drinking was not an option, no matter what. Mental cravings pass in less than seven minutes, if you have a craving get busy doing something else to take your mind off the craving until it goes away.

Good luck and stay strong!

**Turnagain** · October 8, 2011, 11:33 PM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

Hi Boh...

Way to go on your AF days! It's great to hear that you feel so.....great! Depending on how long and how hard you drank...your body needs a lot of biochemical healing so stick with your supplements for awhile. Many medical people believe heavy drinkers lose the ability to absorb vitamins effectively. I actually did megadoses of some supps at first ...especially vitamin B and C.

After month two...I found a very good multivitamin and began taking that in lieu of the vast array of individual supps. I still take l-glut and GABA separately. Your body will tell you if you should add something back...

I credit the supps with helping me through the early cravings and, of course, with the healing my organs and brain chemistry so desperately needed. Eating whole, healthy foods and exercise continue to speed the healing process.

Last, but certainly not least...I credit my sobriety today with a decision: after trying and failing to moderate my drinking for years....I finally accepted that my body does not tolerate alcohol. Now, I just don't drink. period.

I no longer think in terms of what I 'gave up' by not drinking...I think about what I get because I'm AF....my health...my happiness...my life!

What do you love about being AF?

Stick close, new friend...this is a great place to get support....you are succeeding!

**Boh** · October 8, 2011, 11:41 PM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

mimi

Hey good point! I didn't think about it like that...lol! Seems rather...ummm, logical.

Super

Great advice, thanks!!

60 days?? I can only dream, This is the longest I've ever made it! I'm quite content right now. I'm not getting cravings whatsoever, but I am also living at the gym and on this site!

I'm not going to cut back on the supplements at this point, no way! I was just curious?

**Boh** · October 9, 2011, 12:08 AM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

Turnagain;1190063 wrote: Hi Boh...

Way to go on your AF days! It's great to hear that you feel so.....great! Depending on how long and how hard you drank...your body needs a lot of biochemical healing so stick with your supplements for awhile. Many medical people believe heavy drinkers lose the ability to absorb vitamins effectively. I actually did megadoses of some supps at first ...especially vitamin B and C.

After month two...I found a very good multivitamin and began taking that in lieu of the vast array of individual supps. I still take l-glut and GABA separately. Your body will tell you if you should add something back...

I credit the supps with helping me through the early cravings and, of course, with the healing my organs and brain chemistry so desperately needed. Eating whole, healthy foods and exercise continue to speed the healing process.

Last, but certainly not least...I credit my sobriety today with a decision: after trying and failing to moderate my drinking for years....I finally accepted that my body does not tolerate alcohol. Now, I just don't drink. period.

I no longer think in terms of what I 'gave up' by not drinking...I think about what I get because I'm AF....my health...my happiness...my life!

What do you love about being AF?

Stick close, new friend...this is a great place to get support....you are succeeding!

Amazing Post! Thanks for the insight on your journey as I hope to accomplish the same!

I'm having trouble with the mental aspect though... I just don't want to think about AL ever again... its depressing!

What I love about my 10 days AF so far:

-Feeling unreal good in the mornings not wreaking like booze and feeling like death
-My gains at the gym have been normally what takes me a month
-Not constantly worrying what I did or said while intoxicated
-Not feeling depressed and worthless
-Not spending Saturday/Sunday mornings puking
-My blood pressure is now 117/77 not 150/90

Wow...:thanks: I really hope I can keep this up!

Boh

**SebastianMacGregor** · October 9, 2011, 11:19 PM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

I think its great you are taking supplements. It can only help. There is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Who cares "how most people quit drinking". Is that why most people relapse so much? Don't be most people.

I couldn't disagree more with the above comments that cravings are just mental obsession and how taking supplements are mostly a placebo effect.

If I were you in your shoes, I would be utilizing every tool at my disposal. Why not? I'm sure it can get tiresome, the repetition of taking all that stuff. I bet in time though, you'll refine what you take and why.

There are is a ton of good information these forums.

Here are a couple links, I think you will interesting.

DoctorYourself.com - Alcoholism

DoctorYourself.com - Alcohol Protocol

**Boh** · October 10, 2011, 12:11 AM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

Seabass

Thanks so much! I totally agree with you... since joining here, exercising, and taking mass dosages of supplements, I have manage to go the longest without AL I ever have in the last 10 years! The vitamins are not a placebo effect because I have attempted to quit so many times before and always failed instantly! What makes this the magical time?

Yes! I absolutely love those articles... I read them back a few months ago and that is actually what made me start taking all these supplements! I feel like the person in the story.. Although, I'm not ready to try a drink yet ! I'm shooting for 30 days and I'm having a blast!

I really appreciate the support!!

Boh

**SebastianMacGregor** · October 10, 2011, 08:29 AM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

What I didn't tell you and what I didn't get into, is the following....

When it comes to the receptors and your brain, your dopamine, seratonin etc etc--- users of all drugs = alcohol and sugar included --- are lacking in specific receptor chemicals. And the drugs they seek out act as substitutes.

To me that is no different than people who have pica and that eat weird foods or non foods because they are so lacking nutritionally.

Or pregnant women who eat all kinds of odd food combonations because again, they are trying to make up for a lack nutritionally.

Some might consider taking a supplements a cheat or being weak. I don't see it like that at all. I see it like making the game fair. Because in todays world, the deck is very much stacked against you.

The vaccines and flu shots your mother had, ends up dumping mercury into you as a fetus. The flu shots you had as a child, guess what-- more mercury. I wont even touch the other ingredients....

The food we eat is laden with pesticides and much of it is genetically modified. The soil we grow our food in is near empty of nutrients. Even if you JUICE 100 percent of your fruits and veggies, by the time the produce gets to market 80 percent of the nutrients are gone already.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg.

I believe that people who succumb to drug use, alcoholism etc-- aren't bad by nature. Sure part of it is mental but 96 percent is physical.

I love sweets, absolutely love them. They are absolutely horrible for me. Eat some today, and the next day I feel like I am in the throws of deep depression. I have kids and a wife that rely on me. How well do you think I function like that?

Now, I could take chromium picolinate and not even have the urge for the sweets and not have to use EXTREME amounts of willpower. Would it be fair to myself or to my family to ignore that cheap, easy, HIGHLY effective supplement?

/off the soapbox

**Boh** · October 10, 2011, 10:40 AM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

Seabass

I know that it is a sad world that we live in! Now with the super weeds growing the " Round up ready crops" need a different herbicide as these super weeds are resistant to round up... So we can add that to dinner as well!

I totally agree that it is physical! And hey for those who think taking supplements is weak or cheating.. I couldn't care less about you!! Come see me in the gym!!

I know this is working for me and many others!

Thanks for your insight as I can relate, as I have 2 daughters and a wife who depend on me. I know how beating this is helping them!

:thanks:

Boh

**Bruunhilde** · October 10, 2011, 11:42 AM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

Smac, I agree with your theories, there's a ton of research to back them up. There's also alot to be said of the habit itself, and breaking the mental/emotional dependence on AL as escape/reward.

In particular, juicing is the only way to get nearly enough of the plant nutrients we need these days, which is why its so popular. You feel better on it.

**Supercrew** · October 10, 2011, 03:47 PM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

SebastianMacGregor;1190601 wrote: I think its great you are taking supplements. It can only help. There is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Who cares "how most people quit drinking". Is that why most people relapse so much? Don't be most people.

I couldn't disagree more with the above comments that cravings are just mental obsession and how taking supplements are mostly a placebo effect.

If I were you in your shoes, I would be utilizing every tool at my disposal. Why not? I'm sure it can get tiresome, the repetition of taking all that stuff. I bet in time though, you'll refine what you take and why.

There are is a ton of good information these forums.

Here are a couple links, I think you will interesting.

DoctorYourself.com - Alcoholism

DoctorYourself.com - Alcohol Protocol

Hi SM, I never said supplements were bad to take, infact I said I take them myself, and I told Boh to continue taking his if they are working. But I did say FOR ME, it might be a placebo effect. Please read the post compleletly before you rip it apart.

Then you stated, "Sure part of it is mental but 96 percent is physical." Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? I will admit that I am no expert on recovery, but I have found a way to be sober for the last 9 months, after being mentally obsessed with alcohol for over 27 years, and physically dependent on alcohol for over 4 years. I have researched why we become addicted and why some people have a greater chance of having alcohol abuse issues almost daily for the last 15 months.

Regarding your comment, "how most people quit drinking". Is that why most people relapse so much? Don't be most people." I'm not talking about people who relapse, I am talking about people who quit for good...forever, and all addiction is mental, once you are no longer physically dependent on your DOC, and physical dependence on alcohol can be broken by detoxing which normally takes less than a week.

Again, I agree that supplements are great to take if they work for you, but then again, they are called supplements because they are supposed to supplement a healthy diet and lifestyle, they aren't miracle drugs....even chromium picolinate which I had taken on and off for years.

I apologize if you got the impression that I was bashing Boh and his supplement program, but I wasn't, I am of the opinion that every problem drinker has to quit drinking in their own way. So instead of bashing my post how about telling us how you have managed to stay sober and what do your program or method includes Sebastian.

**SebastianMacGregor** · October 10, 2011, 11:35 PM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

/white flag

I didn't get the impression that you were bashing Boh so theres no need to apologize for that.

I did get the impression that you don't believe supplements are crucial.

I believe, that no matter the addiction, serious supplementation is absolutely crucial to lasting recovery. One of the founders of AA thought the same thing and was so impressed he wanted to make supplementation a part of the program.

I believe its not just physical and its not just mental. It is a combonation of both LONG AFTER the detox. Without supplementation, the brain remains malnourished.

If someone with hypoglycemia was always after sweets, is that mental or physical?
It could be both eventually. And that is how I see alcoholism.

**Supercrew** · October 11, 2011, 12:14 AM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

I wasn't looking for a fight, just trying to find where you got your research regarding the 96% and was curious about how you quit drinking.

As far as one of the founders of AA agreeing with the concept of supplementation, please remember that his program is 75 years old and they don't have anything in the AA program promoting the use of supplements...it's a spiritual program.
As far as you comparing alcoholism and hypoglycemia, hypoglycemia is a physical ailment caused by low blood sugar, (glucose). Alcoholism is a physical and mental addiction to alcohol which can cause diabetes and hypoglycemia as well as a host of other things. Your body does not need alcohol, unless you drink enough to become physically dependent on it, once you detox which takes anywhere from 3 days to a week from your last drink your body no longer needs it, whereas your body needs glucose to survive and function so I don't understand your coorelation. As far as your link for a vitamin cure for Alcoholism, Dr. Hoffer has tried to use Niacin as a cure for just about everything, and he also treated Bill W's alcoholism with LSD aside from niacin. I'm not saying it doesn't work but there has been little proof to show either niacin or LSD for that matter as a cure for alcoholism.

Please tell us your experience of why you consider alcoholism and hypoglycemia similar. Do you feel your alcohol addiction was/is 96% physical for you?

**Unwasted** · October 11, 2011, 05:35 AM

Addicted to vitamins and supplements

Supercrew, I take a multi vitamin but was reading the "doctor yourself" link. I'm about out of the vitamins and am read to order more. I have a question for you. The article lists vitamins you should take, and then adds "take a multivitamin." Is it saying that you need to take the listed vitamins PLUS the multi? You've been following this protocol for a while so I'm wondering if you could clear up this question for me. Here is how it's discussed in the article:

1. Vitamin C to saturation (on the order of 10,000 to 20,000 mg per day and more). Beverage alcohol (ethanol) is chemically just one carbon and two hydrogens either way from methanol (windshield washer fluid) and propanol (rubbing alcohol), both of which are poisons. In quantity, vitamin C is an antitoxin. High doses of vitamin C chemically neutralizes the toxic breakdown products of alcohol metabolism. And, vitamin C increases the liver's ability to reverse the fatty build-up so common in alcoholics.

2. B-complex (comprising 50mg of each of the major B-vitamins, 6 times daily). Extra thiamin and extra niacin may be helpful. Unlike drugs, the B-vitamins work best together.

3. L-Glutamine, (about two or three thousand milligrams). Decreases physiological cravings for alcohol.

4. Lecithin (2 to 4 tablespoons daily). Provides inositol and choline, related to the B-complex. Lecithin also helps mobilize fats out of the liver.

5. Chromium (at least 200 to perhaps 400 mcg chromium polynicotinate daily). Chromium greatly reduces carbohydrate mis-metabolism, and greatly helps control blood sugar levels. Many, if not most, alcoholics are hypoglycemic.

6. A good high-potency multi-vitamin, multi-mineral supplement as well, containing magnesium (400 mg) and the antioxidants carotene and d-alpha tocopherol.

Do you take a multi in ADDITION to the above or can one just get those in the multi? I'm assuming the multi doesn't have high enough doses of the B&C. Also, if one does not have alcohol cravings, do you still think taking the L-glut is necessary?

I haven't read the article carefully yet so the answer may be there. Just thought you could answer the question quickly. Thanks for the links!

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