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    #31
    Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

    Okay, lovely ones:

    I sat a course with Jack Kornfield years ago, know Noah Levine's parents, but have only read his books, met Jon Kabat-Zinn in 1982, spoke with Kevin Griffin on the phone after I fell off the meditation path into a wine bottle etc., etc., etc. I owe them all a tremendous debt of gratitude.

    But here's the deal: Nothing changes in your life when you read these books, which actually ARE incredibly insightful and profound. There might be cool insights, discovering new points of view that help, even inspire . . .

    The changes happen when you put your butt on a meditation cushion every day for some specific, committed-to amount of time and DO what the books tell you to do. Better yet, find a meditation center where you can "check yourself in," so you don't have to struggle with what to do next (or whether or not to do it), and firmly attach thy buttocks to thy cushion in a situation that doesn't allow (or at least discourages) getting up in order to avoid, well . . . being with no one except yourself, on a meditation cushion, for extended periods of time.

    Intensive meditation, under impeccable guidance, took me out of all addictions for more than a decade. So, yes, experience rules, and I am absolute evidence that meditation provides a powerful way out. To do that, I had to make it a complete lifestyle.

    A deeply traumatic experience 10 years in completely blew my daily practice (minimum of 1 hour and usually 2) and with that went my total abstinence from alcohol and all mind-altering substances. Hello wine bottle. Yuk.

    In my experience and observation, it's damn near impossible to do this in your own little corner in your own little world. Think swimming upstream against human evolution.

    I owe my life and health to serious meditation over an extended period of time and my way out of pretty genetically predictable alcoholism to MWO. So I'm thrilled to see burgeoning interest, and references to works of authentic and good teachers appearing here.

    I posted this somewhere else, but there is an incredible golden mine of live talks given by many of the teachers you guys are reading at Dharma Seed You can search by topic or by teacher. All of the talks are those that are given at the end of the day during a meditation "course" lasting from 3 days to 3 months. The students in those courses are in silence the entire time, then have the great pleasure of listening to the teachers at the end of their day. There's magical, marvelous wisdom there. I can hardly believe I live in a time when such a resource is available at the click of a mouse.

    The Buddha always insisted that no one should believe him. All should come to their own understanding of what he taught through their own experience. Bhavana-maya panna, it's called in Sanskrit. Direct, experiential knowledge. :h
    "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

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      #32
      Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

      Red, how wonderful that you posted here.

      I am in the process right now of trying to find a place for group meditation, retreats, etc. I have been listening to Kevin Griffin on his website and have just begun meditating. It's heartening to hear how it changed your life and enabled you to get sober. Thanks for the insight and recommendations - it's a bit difficult to figure out where to go for information!

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        #33
        Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

        No, Ne, I sat every morning from 6 am - 7 am and most evenings in the same pm time frame. And yes, there is a component of not doing - at least, stopping doing what we usually do.

        But I think it's really important to have a teacher or guide, because not knowing what to do while sitting on a cushion not doing what you usually do might be more detrimental than helpful.

        We're really not wired to not do, especially to not do the habit patterns of the mind!!

        Where are you, Un? Both in terms of location and in terms of sobriety? I might be able to help you find a place/people/teachers you can connect with.

        I've been fortunate to be able to travel where/whenever I wanted/needed to find the teachers/teachings I'm interested in. I'm on Kevin Griffin's mailing list and get notified where he'll be teaching and when. He's probably got a website where you can add yourself. Noah Levine, another former addict, has a book, "Dharma Punx," that is great, and also, his website tell you when and where he is teaching.

        These guys are both hooked up and teach at Spirit Rock Meditation Center - Spirit Rock Meditation Center

        Spirit Rock, well . . . ROCKS! They offer very accessible "western Buddhist" courses that focus on a variety of topics and practices, yet always stay completely on track with the fundamental teachings of the Buddha. I have some favorite teachers and friends who teach there. If it's something you could do and want more info, PM me. You can also listen to these teachers, and more, as I've said, at Dharma Seed. UNBELIEVABLE gift to all of us.

        There are other teachers/centers I know or am familiar with, and lots that I'm clueless about, but are probably offering amazing opportunities. Feel free to ask or PM me if I can help you figure out a good next step from where you are.

        May all beings be free from suffering
        May all beings be happy
        May all beings be liberated, liberated, liberated!!!!
        "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

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          #34
          Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

          Here is a website I found that some of you might find helpful regarding meditation and mindfulness. There are also alot of references at the bottom for more info.

          Mindfulness and Kindness: Inner Sources of Freedom and Happiness

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            #35
            Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

            This is wonderful Supercrew, thank you xxx
            "It's not your job to like me, it's mine!"

            AF 10th May 2010
            NF 12th May 2010

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              #36
              Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

              Red and SC, thanks so much for all of this good information. I have found a group of people who meet monthly for meditation and will be getting together with them for the first time on December 10. There are also two Buddhist Temples near me, and I've gone to one for services the past two Sundays. Aside from that, I've been reading and meditating on my own. I feel a sense of calm tht I've not experienced before, and believe I've found the right path for myself. For the first time, I have no craving or pull toward alcohol. I'm reading The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche which is wonderful.

              Re my sobriety - I was a light-weight alkie for lack of a better way to describe my drinking. My drinking escalated after a personal "tragedy" for a couple of years. A year ago, I found MWO and tried moderating, which I did very successfully after two stints of going AF - one for 30 days and one for 45 days. Even though I got the drinking under control, I still felt physically bad after drinking even two glasses of wine -- it ALWAYS interrupted my sleep. So, finally, I have quit - it's only been two weeks but I feel certain I won't go back. I think it's because I'm filling the spiritual gap. But, it hasn't been that long, so of course I don't want to be smug or complacent -- plenty of stories of people with long-term sobriety caving into drinking again.

              Red, I'll PM you just in case you know anything more about what's available in my area.

              Thanks for your help.

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                #37
                Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                I started learning about Buddhism this summer... this is a summary of what I learned about mediation ... and I think it may be something you all may be interested in..

                metta instructions,


                When you practice loving kindness meditation, you first start by sending loving and kind thoughts to yourself. You remember times when you were happy. When that happy feeling arises, it's a warm glowing feeling in the center of your chest. And a radiating feeling. As soon as that feeling arises, then, you make a wish for your own happiness: 'May I be happy. May my mind be peaceful and calm. May I be filled with joy. May I be cheerful.' Whatever wish you make for yourself, feel that wish. You know what it feels like to be peaceful and calm. Bring that feeling of peace and calm, put it into your heart, radiate that feeling to yourself. You know what it feels like to be happy. Bring that feeling into your heart, and radiate that feeling to yourself. Whatever wish you make for yourself, you want to feel that wish. You can make the same wish over and over again, as long as it has meaning for you, or you can change the wish occasionally. But you don't make a wish like this, you don't say: 'May I be happy. May I be happy. May I be happy. May I be happy. May I be happy.' When you do a wish like that, it turns into, like trying to memorize something, and you start thinking about other things. You want to feel the wish. Make the wish, feel the peace and calm, if that's what your wish is, keep that feeling in your heart, when that feeling starts to fade, then you make another wish.
                While you're sitting like this, your mind is going to wander. You're going to think about other things. As soon as you notice that your mind is thinking about other things, you simply let go of those thoughts. Don't continue thinking, even if you're in mid sentence let it go. Relax the tension and tightness caused by those thoughts in your head, in your mind, in your body. And gently come back to the feeling of loving kindness and making a wish for your own happiness. It doesn't matter if your mind wanders fifty times during the sitting, and fifty times you see that, you let it go, you relax, you come back to your meditation object. That is a good sitting. A bad sitting would be, noticing that you're thinking about something, and to continue thinking, not letting it go.

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                  #38
                  Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                  Thanks for the metta instructions Herbie. Unwasted, I just pm-ed you and I see most of the answers to my questions are in your post, so thanks for the info. I have just taken an 8 week meditation class and have found that I really need to meet weekly to keep my mediation practice going. I have a couple if local options for weekly and monthly meditation but have not yet looked for a buddist center.

                  I am still faltering alcohol wise, but I will not give up on trying. I feel like I am on some sort of brink, but I am still searching for the spiritual piece.

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                    #39
                    Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                    Herbie, thanks! I've been reading a lot about meditation, so I'm getting more comfortable with it. I even bought a meditation cushion! It definitely makes a difference!

                    LFP, I PMd you.

                    Thanks for the posts everyone - very kind of you all.

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                      #40
                      Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                      thanks for all these really useful posts and links. I do feel that the answer to beating the addiction lies in the "nurturing the spirit" path. This link is so interesting and I must find the time to follow up and meditate with greater consistency.

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                        #41
                        Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                        I'll kick in another $.02 here. I'm not preaching, I'm totally delighted that this thread, and the possible link between "spirits" and "spirituality" is starting to raise it's head, shyly.

                        One whole-hearted recommendation I would make for anyone moving in these realms is to sign-up for and GO to a multi-day course. What happened for me, when I did that, shifted the center of my universe (not apparently, at first), and gave me a toe-hold on meeting life moment-to-moment, which eventually brought total sobriety.

                        Reading about meditation and actually doing it are kind of parallel universes that never intersect. And doing it by yourself is a monumental challenge, IMO.

                        If you "sign yourself in" to a course, you eventually wake up understanding that your primary and only "job" for that day is to sit with yourself and follow the instructions. I found that so LIBERATING!! And, in my experience, the most difficult thing I have ever done, besides drinking myself to oblivion. But the hard work of "butt on cushion" has absolute, observable benefits. The other way . . . not so much.

                        Realize, loverlies, that "meditation," (which I now understand to be to train the mind, and therefor the nervous system, to not be a "sheep" in the evolutionary process), is akin to salmon swimming upstream to spawn. Not AT ALL moving along the normal flow. So don't be discouraged if you find it difficult. The Buddha (who, by the way, was not a Buddhist), understood and gave instructions regarding all of this. And do seek out like-minded people/groups/opportunities.

                        And Un - a cushion is a great thing. Sit there regularly and you build supportive vibrations that will help you along.

                        OK. Enough. May all beings be peaceful.
                        "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

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                          #42
                          Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                          Read Tread

                          You seem so far along in your practice. I live in the middle of nowhere and I was so amazed to see an add in our little local paper (it comes out once a week) that there is a mediation center about 10 miles from me... anyway the add was saying come on a Saturday for an all day sit and or walking mediation and Qichong ... I went a few times, found the mediation incredibly difficult ... the first time in my life I ever sat there and tried to quite my mind.. my body was so sore afterward. I was just starting on my journey when the entire group of nuns monks etc all went to war with one another in a very unbuddhist way and the entire thing fell apart for me... the nun who was my teacher got kicked out... so anyway here I sit in the middle of nowhere trying to pice it together from various readings etc.. My teacher helped me through such a difficult time ... I have stayed in limited touch through e mail , but it not the same as being in person.

                          your posting are of great interest to me and I am going to follow up on your reading recommendations etc...

                          looking so forward to reading more from you

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                            #43
                            Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                            Red, good advice about reading versus doing. And, the point that it does not come naturally -- I'm definitely getting that. But, even with just mainly reading, I'm seeing possibilities. The American culture is definitely antithetical to many of the concepts (for lack of a better term) of Buddhism. We're go, go, go which IMHO is super unhealthy and stressful overall.

                            So, has anyone on this thread watched the recent NOVA series? I think the Buddha understood something about quantum physics -- he definitely had insight into the subject/object dilemma.

                            Herbie, your story is really ironic - can you give it another try? Maybe they've gotten their act together?

                            Red, I'll keep checking into multi-day courses. I found something pretty close to me that looks worthwhile. If not that, then maybe a future trip to California! Lots going on there as you know - the Spirit Rock site looked wonderful. Thanks for all the good advice.:l

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                              #44
                              Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                              The reading a book v action resonates deeply for me, if I acted on each book I've read and reread, I'd be a superhero by now in every facet except maybe just starting the meditation thingy. Sitting for hours or even an hour on a cushion sounds painful physically!

                              I'll check out the links, thanks to all of you with such wonderful caring help.

                              May we all be happy, peaceful, filled with loving kindness...

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Meditation, Spirituality Mindful Stuff

                                I closely follow, (as in literally - watching online, reading, and traveling to Thailand to study with one of the Dalai Lama's long-time interpreters), www.MindandLife.org It's the association of western scientists that are working with the Dalai Lama and other Buddhist practitioners, bringing western scientific verification to Buddhist principles. Vast and mind-blowing.

                                I mention this especially for you, Un. From what I've come to understand, the one we call "the" Buddha understood "quantum physics" and "metaphysics" through direct experience. As in, his consciousness became so clear that he actually observed the particles of matter that comprise everything, arising and falling.

                                In the centuries since, western science has given them all different names - quarks, leptons, (oh gosh, now I've got to go find a discourse by Wes Nisker who talks about all of this, hilariously), etc. Upon observing them, Buddha used the term "kalapas" for the elemental particles that coalesce and fall apart to create . . . well, everything.

                                It's just that he had to go through a lot of very challenging austerities and check out many different paths; then sit very, very still for a very, very long time to see things as they are.
                                "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

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