depression

[spacebebe01]

depression

I have been searching the boards looking for any new information about depression and was therefore very interested to read this thread. Although I accept the diet and lifestyle changes can work and help someone who is suffering from either long term clinical depression and also situational depression how can someone who is too ill to get out of bed, get washed and dressed, shop or prepare food be expected to make these changes, obviously they cannot. This kind of advice while it may be well meaning and true can often make the depressed person feel worse, more useless, thats its their own fault for not being able to take the advice and use it. Medication is or should be used to enable a person to function enough to be able to make changes in their lives and start to help themselves. Also no-one should ever think of coming off medication without a doctors supervision. Ssri's are known to not be perfect but until something else comes along they will be continued to be used. At worst one of the problems with depression is suicidal or homicidal ideation and which can be acted upon. I dont think it would be a good idea to tell someone who either wants to kill themselves or others to go for a walk and cut out sugar!

[Chillgirl]

depression

Chillgirl;1246977 wrote: I totally realize this approach is not for everyone and that's why I put it under Holistic Healing

beatle;1247043 wrote:
(I also hope people on ADs, especially those who are having success on them, will not be offended. I know I was on many, and they hurt me far more than helped me, which is why I searched out alternatives, and found out much of this information (and more) myself.)

Chillgirl;1247263 wrote: I can see how with chronic depression you may need ADs for a short time to see you through the worst

Chillgirl;1248186 wrote:
Since my "rock bottom" last week when I scared myself with the intensity of my suicidal thoughts,

spacebebe01;1248800 wrote: I dont think it would be a good idea to tell someone who either wants to kill themselves or others to go for a walk and cut out sugar!

Spacebabe - I dont know if you read all the posts on this thread but I have never suggested for one second that someone with chronic depression who cant get out of bed should take a walk!

I deliberately didnt post this on the meds section as it was to appeal to those open to alternative holistic options. I can assure you my own experiences with suicidal thoughts have been far from trivial and I am determined to take action to avoid it happening again.

This was meant as a positive look at other option as I believe many people give up without knowing or trying to improve their lives when many other things can help other than AD's.

There was certainly no intention to offend and reading my posts back I was offering information not quoting it as gospel. I would be sorry if your comments stop others sharing this type of imformation.

[IAD]

depression

Depression: My youngest son was listening to a commercial trying to describe some of the aliments of depression. He heard the usual.......no desire to do anything, always sad, a feeling of worthlessness...He knows I suffer from it......he asked me how do you know when it's getting really bad. I told him......when you see me kicking the dogs 3 times a day ! Ha! I just wanted him not to worry for me...He has never seen me kick my dogs ! Ha! ( nor would I ) It's a bad bugger though. You go through phases .......feeling ok for awhile....then a bout for awhile. I keep taking my meds. (Zoloft) Just my thoughts. Tony

[spacebebe01]

depression

I dont know how to do a qquote but this is copied and pasted from a post by Supercrew . Taking action in your life and seeing daily progress cures depression in my opinion. You get to decide whether you are depressed and how long it lasts in my opinion.

To suggest that anyone makes a decision as implied above to be depressed is totally offensive. No one decides to be ill.

I came onto Holistic section as I believe I can take medication as well as use holistic methods to help myself. I do consider myself to be open to holistic options. IMHO It does not have to be one or the other. I do not see why my comments would stop anyone sharing information and I certainly did not intend anyone to read that into my post.

I accept that a big problem with depression and also antidepressant medication is there seems to be a lot of misdiagnosis and over prescribing of antidepressants. That does not take away the necessity of medication for people who are ill with major clinical depression. I simply think this thread would be more useful and helpful if its was made clear that these other options are that can be used as well as medication.

I myself do not like having to take antidepressants, but I have been taking them for over 20 years and yes I do still suffer with depression, I cannot stop taking medication without incuring potentially disasterous results and yes this is when I have reduced as advised. I am not at fault for this happening, nor do I make a choice to be ill rather than get up and make positive changes in my life. My point was that on reading this thread I was hoping to find positive suggestions for help, which there are, but I had to read thu the critisism of medication and of people with depression (the woman who eats badly, smokes, drinks too much and still takes ad's) to get to it. I maybe overly sensitive, this may be because I am depressed

[Supercrew]

depression

SpaceBebe,

If you read the entirety of my posts you would have read, "that I do not comment on depression often", because it creates arguments like this one. I cannot judge how you feel and I can only guess how I would react if I were in your shoes. Maybe I would agree with you 100%. If you don't agree with my assessment of how I think a person should handle depression that's fine, but it shouldn't upset you. We all find our own path to happiness. I stayed depressed for at least 10 years because I would not give up drinking. Even in the first month or 2 of being sober I was still depressed, but I found my solution. I am just relaying my experiences on this forum.

If I were taking anti D's for 20 years and I still suffered from depression I would probably start looking for alternatives. Also if you have been taking medication for 20 years to solve your depression why are you drinking? Mixing antiD's and alcohol will cause more problems than they will solve.

Things that I might ask myself if I were you are:

1. What is my purpose and goals in life?
2. Do I take positive action daily to accomplish my goals or to benefit my purpose?
3. Do I feel like I am making daily progress in life?

I do believe there is a fine line between chronic clinical depression and mental illness, and I am not an expert, but I would do everything within my power to not medicate for something that can really only judged by how a person feels and acts. It's very subjective to the person who has it. II don't judge people who have these afflictions, but I will give my opinion on what I know works for me or what I have seen work for others. Sorry if most posts were offensive to you, it wasn't intended.

[spacebebe01]

depression

Why do you think I am drinking? I am sober thanks to medication after many years of trying everything else I could find I eventually found my way of getting and staying sober. Drinking alcohol alone causes more problems that it will solve yet myself and several thousand other people have/do do it because we are/where addicted to alcohol/alcoholics. You are not the first person and will not be the last to point out that drinking is problematic. I only it were that simple.

I have started looking for ways to help treat my depression, that is why I am on here.

[Supercrew]

depression

I know all about drinking and depression, I lived it for 27 years. I know it's not simple, but it's not impossible either. I was able to beat both of them, and I have had many, many hardships along the way.

What is the ultimate outcome that you are looking for? Specifically, what do you want your life to look like? Are you working towards making that happen everyday?

[Lila]

depression

spacebebe01;1248800 wrote: I have been searching the boards looking for any new information about depression and was therefore very interested to read this thread. Although I accept the diet and lifestyle changes can work and help someone who is suffering from either long term clinical depression and also situational depression how can someone who is too ill to get out of bed, get washed and dressed, shop or prepare food be expected to make these changes, obviously they cannot. This kind of advice while it may be well meaning and true can often make the depressed person feel worse, more useless, thats its their own fault for not being able to take the advice and use it. Medication is or should be used to enable a person to function enough to be able to make changes in their lives and start to help themselves. Also no-one should ever think of coming off medication without a doctors supervision. Ssri's are known to not be perfect but until something else comes along they will be continued to be used. At worst one of the problems with depression is suicidal or homicidal ideation and which can be acted upon. I dont think it would be a good idea to tell someone who either wants to kill themselves or others to go for a walk and cut out sugar!

thank you for saying this!
For me, I have anxiety. I stopped taking Ads during a very very stressful time in my life, and I regret it. There is an attitude like it is bad to take them, always better to go natural. So I turned to alcohol and solitude. I made bad choices, panicky choices, full of fear.
I have been told "they do not work" and you should only take them if "you absolutely need to." So what sense does that make? Which is it?
For now, I am taking them, and beyond this I will not tell anyone anymore. And yes, for the record I have taken natural stuff and it has not helped a lot.
Things also work synergistically. After a month on ADs, I decided to join a gym. I started connecting with people again, I dress cuter, etc.
Taking them is a very personal choice. Also, cutting out sugar, etc, is very powerful, and you can do both. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

[spacebebe01]

depression

I have just typed a few lines trying to answer your questions, I stopped and deleted it when I realised I have no experience of a life without depression, anxiety. The fact that I am now sober and happy with being sober is fantastic. I do not have a master plan for what I want my future to be and maybe one of the things holding me back is my lack of vision in that regard. I know that in the past I have tried to do too much too soon and have burn out and fell flat on my face, so now I am taking baby steps toward improving my life. I am working toward improvement everyday, I do take vitamins and suppliments, I have taken omega 3 for quite a long time, I first learnt about it years ago when I tried it for my sons ADHD. As i have mentioned I do take medication for depression, for alcoholism, and for other physical illnesses I have. I also attend a centre for people with mental health problems, I have started walking my two dogs each day by the river which I find enormously helpful, and I have started meditation practice. This is as well as trying to learn how to look after my home and be a mum. The next thing I want to start working on for myself is my diet, feeding my children and not myself has become a habit for a long time and I am starting to address this. I also am trying but keep on failing to give up sugar as I know it is bad for me in a lot of ways.

[spacebebe01]

depression

Lila, I am sorry to hear that you had a rough time, in the past I have also stopped taking ad's and drank instead to medicate myself. I am glad that things are turning around for you, that is my point that ad's can give the ability to be able to do things that are good for us. joining the gym, meeting peoplle and dressing well are all very positive changes. As I have just mentioned I am trying to cut out sugar, after stopping drinking I started craving chocolate, which I had not really bothered with before and now I have been difficulty stopping the chocolate and all the other sugary things I have been eating. After thinking about it tho to write on here I think it has renewed my resolve to have another go.

[nancy]

depression

to take or not to take

No one should tell you that you have to take them or that you shouldn't take them, though both of those things happen.

Spacebabe is right that there's a big spectrum of problems. I can tell you for sure that I have had depression in the past and taken ADs and cannot identify with any of the symptoms we are told about on the commercials, about not being able to get out of bed, losing interest, wanting to commit suicide. For sure there are some severe cases of depression. They are used for a lot of emotional problems, sometimes used too much. It's good to keep an open mind and be aware of options in my opinion.

Spacebabe I think everyone was already sensitive to your concerns but it's good that you voiced them in case someone else felt the same way. We do have more power than we think we have but it's hard to see when you are feeling bad.

[spacebebe01]

depression

I am off to bed now and send my best wishes to everyone on here. The thing we have in common is that we are all trying to overcome our alcohol problems and the whole variety of other issues we may have, and long may we continue to do that.

[Supercrew]

depression

spacebebe01;1248871 wrote: I have just typed a few lines trying to answer your questions, I stopped and deleted it when I realised I have no experience of a life without depression, anxiety. The fact that I am now sober and happy with being sober is fantastic. I do not have a master plan for what I want my future to be and maybe one of the things holding me back is my lack of vision in that regard. I know that in the past I have tried to do too much too soon and have burn out and fell flat on my face, so now I am taking baby steps toward improving my life. I am working toward improvement everyday, I do take vitamins and suppliments, I have taken omega 3 for quite a long time, I first learnt about it years ago when I tried it for my sons ADHD. As i have mentioned I do take medication for depression, for alcoholism, and for other physical illnesses I have. I also attend a centre for people with mental health problems, I have started walking my two dogs each day by the river which I find enormously helpful, and I have started meditation practice. This is as well as trying to learn how to look after my home and be a mum. The next thing I want to start working on for myself is my diet, feeding my children and not myself has become a habit for a long time and I am starting to address this. I also am trying but keep on failing to give up sugar as I know it is bad for me in a lot of ways.

Awesome post SB!! So you have never had a life even as a youngster that didn't include depression and anxiety? That would be terrible, but at the same time then how do you gage happiness?

[willowfrond]

depression

I am thinking how do I communicate what it feels like to be in this pit.

"Here I sit as I have sat day in day out for? How long is it now? Ah yes I remember, this time around since mid November (poet didn't know it). This time around, as a part of nearly 40 years.
The room is very small but at least I am not homeless anymore. I'm on a disability pension and the craft equipment I will use "one day" doesn't cost much so I could do a hundred projects before I needed more. The tools and equipment sit on the shelves of my two big bookcases (no books) gathering dust. This craft that could make me considerable amounts of money and that I adore doing! Yes I will start tomorrow (never comes).
My room is all in one (except I have to go down the hall to shower or relieve myself) and my sink is buried in dirty dishes, the cooktop not too clean. The floor is strewn with debris and clothing...I get one gold star I have a load of washing in the machine downstairs.
I could....do this or that. I should at the least tidy up.
I showered yesterday, I had to I had no food left and had to go to the store but I don't want to shower again until I have to and I will not brush my hair or teeth today. Tomorrow I will sneak down the hall to shower hoping and praying not to bump into another resident who will no doubt think correctly that I stink" (poet again)

ALL of this is irrational and on the hygiene front absolutely disgusting, when that little bit of "me" surfaces I feel like kicking myself or screaming or running to someone anyone to HELP me. I know all the things that could help but I would have to initiate them and I am a rabbit caught in the headlights of a car.
It is totally different to sadness and grief, I have felt both of those in very good measure and still do sometimes, I also still laugh at jokes and feel happy in the sunshine.

I am back to self medicating with AL waiting to get into detox AGAIN, they are very busy post holidays and when the mood takes me I "just miss out" but I will get there.

In October last year after being AL free for a while I did take SSRI, I had always resisted before because I think there is not enough known about ADs really and also mixing AL with them doesn't seem too smart. I had seratonin syndrome on the small start up dose, very frightening indeed. Did you know our doctors are advised to start low (good) go slow (again good) and aim high (WTF with chemicals that occur in the brain in minute amounts.....AIM HIGH?????? Oh I get it sell more drugs!). As the symptoms began to go, about a week later I felt incredibly good for two days but there is no information online about mini doses and my doctor had no idea either. Reading into that if people in the studies had a reaction like mine maybe they were not followed up and mini doses might be justified.

On the natural subject ST Johns wort and Tribulus terristus contain exactly the same chemicals as pharma ADs. Natural doesn't necessarily mean wonderful ever heard of Bella Donna? Studies have been done on the ability of sunlight to increase seratonin and defeat SAD.
Spacebebe I think that I am also lacking a master plan or goal and it isn't just like wave a magic wand and create one.

Nelz oh man I wish i could clone you, I would listen you could be my person to run to.

[nancy]

depression

the resident

Willow, I don't think you have much to worry about with mixing alcohol and SSRIs. You might want to stay away from Welbutrin which causes seizures.

I definitely have the opinion that a lot of aspects depression can be beaten naturally but I have experience with ADs. I don't need them now and would only use them in case of extreme lows which I don't feel now. I also want to stress, to avoid misunderstanding, that here in this thread we have been talking about depression and not bipolar depression, which is a different illness and treated differently.

There's little to lose with taking an anti-depressant feeling as bad as you do. As long as you are monitored for side effects. You said you took a drug before and it didn't suit you. There are many other options.

I don't mean to seem like a flip-flopper. Medications have their place and I don't fear them. I just would not want to take them unless it was a necessity.

Can you get into psychotherapy until you get into detox?

And you are right about St John's Wort. I wanted to mention before that the doses listed on the nutritional supplements don't match what was used in clinical trials. There's a difference.