pregnant

[Guest]

pregnant

Re: pregnancy & breast feeding

MFM,
Thanks for sharing your story. I am sorry that your 1st preganancy occurred under such difficult circumstances, but it sounds like you have certainly come out on top.

Being happy and relaxed would be a great state of being for everyone! A piece of advice we could all take. It seems like your German friend (and Europeans in general) have a less didactic attitude toward the alcohol thing during pregnancy. I have had a little bit here and there, when I kinda felt like it, but not every day at all. Right now the worst thing for me is being so damn tired all the time! I thought this was supposed to happen later! And, not drinking (for everyone else) helps you lose weight and give you lots of energy. Not so here. I guess there is time for that later.

Good luck and welcome!
CS

[Guest]

pregnant

pregnant

Hi CS,
If this is your first pregnancy, try to get some sleep in the afternoons. I remember those afternoon snoozes to be some of the most wonderful times for me. I really felt I connected with my baby and had beautiful dreams.
Hope you can find the time. It really is great to give into the tiredness. Someone told me it's great for helping the baby grow.. and it's lovely lying there feeling baby bump and stretch and move around.. that's when they have the most room to play - when you're lying down.
MFM

[Guest]

pregnant

MFM,
Yes, this is my 1st pregnancy. It has been a huge surprise and shock; I just turned 40, decided to finally do something about my drinking and start the MWO program, and then bingo! Thankfully my husband and I have had some good -- but not always easy -- conversations about the whole thing.

I do need to get more rest, I know. i've tried to be good about going to bed early, but I am lucky enough most days to be home from work between 3-4, so I need to use that time for me and not for running to the grocery store. I took a sick day today, so I can sleep whenever I want. (Also kinda feeling guilty about stuff around the house I'm not getting done -- the things that the non-drinking energy was supposed to encourage me to do, are STILL not getting done! Eventually, I suppose.)

Thanks,
CS

[Guest]

pregnant

boy, CS, your posts are great and helpful. and martian, too, thank you again! your 'not so easy' conversations with your husband... boy can i relate! a week ago my hubby came home to hear me on the horn with a friend. when i got off he asked if i had been drinking. i admitted that yes, i had. i asked him how he knew. he said my eyes were glassy and red, and i was slurring my words. i felt relieved! the secret was out! i told him that, once again, i was having a struggle with beer. since then, i have not stopped struggling. i have just gone underground once again: i have been hiding it better. i feel so awful. he is away now for five days. will i use this time to drink without inhibition, or will i get my act together so i can feel okay about myself again? the latter is the hoped-for case, indeed! and that is my intention. what an exciting and scary time. i want to be pregnant, i want this demon to go away. i want to stop the guilt. the only way i think i can do this is to stop drinking. i think you'll all wish me luck and hope for me that i can do just that, not only so that i can feel and be honest, but also so that i can have a healthy baby and not worry about damage i might've done.

i hear so many times that the problem does not go away once a child/baby is in the picture. i guess i have pipe dreams that it will. but i must not fool myself. argh. the support i need i must seek. by posting here, that is what i am doing. thanks for all the wisdom that i find in these messages. thanks for understanding who i am and what my struggles are.
xoxo onoclea

[Guest]

pregnant

Hi Onoclea - When I saw your post under this subject I thought that maybe......well, I guess it hasn't been quite a month since your last post about not being pregnant. But I am so hoping that all your dreams come true for you and you do get pregnant and give birth to a beautiful, healthy baby! I can sense through your posts what a wonderful mom you would be and how happy that would make you. I really do think drinking will become secondary to you once you are pregnant and are carrying that life inside you. Especially since you have had to wait so long.

Anyway, just wanted to check in and say hi and I wish all the best for you. Hang in there!!

Jane.

[Guest]

pregnant

Jane and Onoclea,
I just posted some ramblings under the "Psych. cravings" thread in the General disucssion. Drinking is certainly not a priority of thought for me right now, but I guess I am just looking at the big picture (which I tend to do a lot). I am strugling with managing my time right now, I guess, figuring out where I'll be in a year, etc.

Before I got pregnant, I had no idea how I could ever quit drinking for 9 months (or more, with nursing). Sounded unimaginable, when I almost never went one day. Now it's not like I don't think about it, but it's not really an issue. It feels weird though. I had a half a glass of wine with dinner last night, and I don't think I had anything since Sat. (My other post gives my other currently-conflicted feelings about all of this.)

Onoclea, I know you will do the right thing and are trying to do the right thing. I'm sorry for your husband being harsh. Does he know about MWO or how much you're struggling (with baby thoughts and with drinking). Of course when you feel guilty, it just starts the spiral of bad thoughts all over again (at least it does for me).

I think I need some alternative beverages, esp. for evening. I drink a lot of water, which I did before anyway, but after drinking water all afternoon, something else would be nice. Maybe I'll start another thread to that effect.

Take care,
CS

[Guest]

pregnant

Hey Onoclea,

Boy, can I relate about the husband stuff. I didn't have much trouble with drinking when I was pregnant, but I did smoke. My then husband was quite critical about it, and it just made me want to smoke more! (So there, schmuck!:hat ) In fact, I did smoke throughout the pregnancy, 4-8 cigs a day. Funny story: I did get premature aging of the placenta, likely from smoking so my ob-gyn said that we had to plan to deliver by my due date; my ex was so upset by this news, that HE ended up on on the examining table with his feet in the stirrups! What a picture! Anyway, I'm sure your husband wants the best for any future children of yours, and I hope that he can come to a place where he can feel more empathy for YOUR struggle to do the best for you and a child.

Anyway, I hope that you can buy out of any power struggles with him and stay focused on your own health and the health of your future child. Although to be sure, you won't get any criticism from me, I've sure been there, and I know how hard it is!

Hugs,
Kathy

[Guest]

pregnant

pregnant

Hi Onoclea,
Isn't it amazing how someone who loves us and worries about our drinking/smoking thinks that being critical is going to help!! I too had the same trouble with a husband.. who never realized that being angry or critical only increased the fear, shame, guilt, compulsiveness and hiding.. increased the pressure & stress and made it all the harder to talk about or stop!!!
Just an idea, but have you thought about your reasons for hiding it now? I could be wrong, but those reasons might be stronger if you become pregnant.
I'm not trying to be negative, only thinking of my own experience.. so please ignore me if this is not helpful.
The thing realised years later was that I was already under pressure from the world around me to be 'thin, happy & rich' and soooo grateful for my 'perfect' husband, my 'great' career and my 'wonderful' life.. all the things that success are about I suppose... I think that maybe I needed a break from keeping up the front!! And that's what a few drinks did for me.. helped me relax, be NOT perfect and have a laugh.
In a high pressure life it became my little 'time out' zone.
So the more pressure in my life the more 'time out' i needed.
Something I had not expected about being pregant was that even more people would be watching me, expecting me to be blissfully happy and coping perfectly with work, husband and the pregnancy.. not to mention 'not letting myself go' etc.
My husband, who had been reasonably tolerant of my drinking before, became hyper-vigilant once I was pregnant. Can't say I blame him exactly, but it made me doubly miserable.. made being pregnant a whole lot less blissful than it could have been. Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

So what I'm suggesting now is maybe if you could find a away to bring up the subject with him now, while you have time to figure out ways that he could be supportive for you instead of being someone you feel like you have to hide your troubles from. After all he probably wants this baby as much as you do.

All I ever wished for was a hubby who would help me out a bit when I was tired.. let me sit down and have a little wine, even help with the dinner maybe?? And then when he thought I'd had enough to say 'why don't you have some ice cream honey or a cup of tea' or something nice instead of just criticising and complaining about my bad habits.

If you could work out what are your main stresses and triggers, what things help break the craving (icecream & peaches was mine). Help him understand you need his support and not criticism.. for the sake of your baby.. perhaps it would be the very best preparation for you both.. who knows you might even have a heaps better relationship. I might be wrong.. it might just be my little pipedream.. but thought it might help.

Years ago I had a friend who also loved a drink or four.. and when she fell pregnant her darling husband used to make her a strawberry daquiri with about a quarter nip of vodka, lots of fruit, before dinner. She would sit & relax while he whipped up a stirfry or something and that was it! I have to say she never had a problem with drinking while she was pregnant.. he made sure she didn't get too stressed. Their first baby was born the same day as mine.. So I'm only partially dreaming.. such supportive relationships do actually exist!

Wishing you all the best & thinkin of you,
MFM

[Guest]

pregnant

Hey Onoclea,

I hope that Martian's post is helpful. I hope that maybe your husband would respond well to your talking to him now. and Martian, what an insightful post!! Well done, friend!

Kathy

[Guest]

pregnant

oh how good it is to be here!

thanks kathy, martian, jane!
your thoughtful input is so appreciated. i must qualify about my husband... he is actually very loving with me. he is surprisingly non-judgemental about my drinking. he recognizes that it's not entirely within my control, and that i am not TRYING to mess up. when he discovered that night that i had been drinking, he was not angry. he was concerned and surprised. surprised becase i have hidden it so well from him in the past. he had no idea -i think, though i could be wrong- that i was still in such a struggle. (our tacit understanding is that i don't drink at all because i can't do it in moderation. when he discovered me drunk he was probably surprised because he didn't know that the struggle was still so tough for me, that i was still, in fact, drinking. i have been making it my job to keep it a secret, because of my own shame, not because of his blame.) he was not, for the record, harsh. he was the most loving, accepting, concerned husband one could wish for. i give thanks for that. he does not know i even come to the MWO website, unless he has looked at the record of my website visits, which he may have done, because i have not shared it with him because i didn't want him to know how alive it still is with me. and, he's the kind of guy who wouldn't ask me about it. he's not much of a talker or processor of such things. he did ask me, when he found me drunk, why i had stopped going to aa meetings. i told him it was because i thought i had it under control, which was a semi-truth; i thought that, in part, but i also didn't want to go to aa and tell them that i had fallen, and hard.

yes, martian, i wonder why i wish to hide it. i wonder if it harkens back to my adolescent days when i was drinking and HAD TO hide it from my parents. my father used to tell my sis and me that if he found us smoking pot he'd not pay for us to go to college (to say nothing of drinking, ironically). i got away with doing just that (smoking and drinking) AND, in the end, going to the most expensive school in the US. so, i guess secrecy has had its own awards. how strange it is to me that i continue this tradition in a marriage with a husband who is nothing short of loving and accepting and understanding. he is Zen incarnate. clearly i don't feel worthy, on a level, of having my issues (my alcoholism, which i see it to be) and also having love. for so many, many years i was single. now, i have a man who loves me no matter what. how can it be that he would love me in spite of my disease? well, he does. whenever it has come up, he hugs me tightly and tells me how very much he loves me. he doesn't have much more to say than that. i fault him for his lack of words, yet i see that i am lucky that he is not haranguing me with awful attitude about why i still struggle. i wonder why it is so hard for me to talk about it with him. could it because he doesn't know what to say?

thanks thanks thanks to you all who have supported me in my process. it is such a fine and wonderful feeling to know that i am not alone.

xoxo onoclea

ps: CS: a good alternative drink is tea. for pregnancy try raspberry, red clover, and/or nettle. you can get them loose in a good health food store. they're great for your uterus. susan weed has a book about the childbearing year that will explain the properties of those herbs, but i warn you not to take her too seriously on her thoughts about potential damage you might've done if you've not been perfect before conceiving. she seems to forget, i think, that we are all human!

[Guest]

pregnant

pregnant

Hi Onoclea,
here is a little bit I pinched off someone elses post on 'best of the boards' for you (slightly different context but hopefully inspiring for you):

"I think what we all fear are the cravings, and not being able to control it... Listen to yourself and don't get overwhelmed with "Now or Never" feelings. Try to explain to your husband how difficult this is, bring him to the website so he can see for himself. And forge on! You know deep down what is best for you. You know, my guy told me the other day that he was sure, at the beginning of this program, that I would probably do just like always... make promises I couldn't keep. And now he is SO pleased with the results. It's a high in itself being able to keep going and feeling so good in the process!"
This lady also said that all the pleasure she feels from being free, healthy and happy has replaced the pleasure she used to feel from drinking.
Sounds like a great place to be in!! Wish I was there!!

I think it is REALLY hard for someone without any addictions to comprehend others who have them. The fact that your man is patient and loving means you have every chance in the world of having his support in your journey. He is probably wishing he could talk it over and understand it all better.. but also a bit baffled.

What I might be hearing you saying though is that you may be hiding because of 1. repeating a habit/pattern formed with your dad and 2. feeling you do not deserve such love & trust.. it almost sounds as though you feel like you are not good enough for your husband!! Both these realisations could be very powerful for you.. and I hope you can see what an illusion they are: ie: your husband is a different person from your dad and you DO DESERVE all the love he has to give you!!

Maybe your early drinking & smoking was normal adolescent rebellion but you just felt so guilty 'cause you loved your dad so much that it effected your self esteem and that formed a compulsive habit. Maybe you were just too hard on yourself then and now. Maybe you need to make some space in your life where you get the space to be NOT PERFECT in a way that is not alcohol related??

Forgive me if I'm rambling.. I'm also trying to figure out my own reasons and I'm trying to find some ways for myself to cut loose and be bratty that are not alcohol related. Being a mum gives me even less opportunity than ever, so I've really got my thinking cap on. I'm thinking out loud here:

Drinking was my way of letting off steam as an adolescent. I loved beer & loud live bands with big crowds. At home & school I was perfect. I parents with high expectations & found myself living out the Dr Jeckyll/Mr Hyde lifestyle as an adolescent: being good/bad alternatly. Where was the real me?

When my daughter first started school, she used to come home and throw a giant tantrum every afternoon. I was really worried about her behaviour until a friend pointed out "She has spent the whole day being really good! Now she needs a safe place to be bad and let it all hang out. Lucky she has you." Slowly the tantrums subsided. I think it was her way of 'debriefing' or dealing with the pressure. Once she got more confident the tantrums stopped. She is a pretty relaxed & well-adjusted person all round these days.

I hope you can relate to some of my chatter.. I hope talking here together can help us figure out feelings, patterns, guilt & low self esteem in connection with drinking. I reckon it's half the battle just understanding WHY we overdo it.. alot of the reasons are unconsious past stuff we don't need any more. The other half the battle is to stop feeling SHAME!! After that it's not so overwhelming any more.

The other thing I thought of is to consider the roles you are playing? Maybe your hubby is 'the patient understanding one?' Perhaps this puts you under pressure like you felt when you were younger with your Dad? High expectactions?

I'm no shrink.. forgive my blabber.. sorry to be so personal here.. feel free to tell me where to get off. But I know I've played out roles with my husband that I first played as a kid. Maybe your hubby would like some time off from his role too? What's his story? Maybe you could ask him? Maybe that's a GIANT opportunity?

Shame is a killer. I say we should all see that Alchohol is a HUGE money making industry with ZILLIONS of people experiencing difficulty with this particular substance for hundreds of years!! The only thing that is new is THESE BOARDS!!! I feel very proud to be meeting you all. This is a Self Esteem Building Exercise in itself.

Wishing you guys the best of luck..
Hope I said something helpful here and it was not all drivel.. You know I've already got so much help from these boards and from you all even after only a week or two.

Thanks and Love to All!
MFM

[Guest]

pregnant

helllo martian!
thank you for your post that was not a ramble not drivel but thoughtful and insightful and i am touched that you took the time to "think out loud" in my honor.

yes! i need the freedom to NOT BE PERFECT. don't we problem drinkers have a pathology around that? perhaps i'm so uncomfortable with my lack of perfection that i numb out with fosters bitters oil cans (preferably, at this point, three of them) so that i can 1. not feel the discomfort and 2. confirm that i am not perfect. i had a therapist once who suggested i just sit with the possiblity of being simply average. not great or excellent or even my best. just sit in the place of being average, try it on. lo and behold it felt kinda nice. that was years ago, and it obviously didn't cure me. but i think there was some real insight in that suggestion; i can't say how, but SOMEhow the notion of being perfect -the hope of being without fault- equals several pints of beer. argh. words fail me but i think you'll get my drift.

yes! it is incredibly joyous to be sober. i have known it for periods in my life. i loved those times. the feeling of being present. the experiece of the sharp beauty of life and the soft comfort of being in the moment. not needing to fix or control anything. enjoying the simplest pleasures imaginable. eating food. reading a book. watching a flick. taking the pooch for a walk. argh. being corny here. but i'm feeling sentimental for those times when i was free of this demon, when i was just simply living. i'm tired of this preoccupation.

my husband, yes, well, it's funny. i wonder what the h#@$ that's about. why i hide it. i ahve some pretty good ideas, but the whole thing still floors me... the wish to portray that i'm in control, duhh. the wish to be able to continue to drink without having to admit it's out of control, without worryinhg him, without in some way threatening my freedom to keep sneakin' it. i take full responsibility, though i do wonder what makes a man so quiet... ya know, he's just one of those gents who is not too complicated. (kinda refreshing after dating several drama queens who could never just BE.) he doesn't have the language of the psyche, personal psychology, or any of that good stuff. which is kinda ironic, given that it's one of my favorite languages. but, as i've said, there is something very refreshing and calming about his buddha nature.

anywhoot, now i'm rambling. thanks much for your input martian, and all you lovelies. keep posting. dont' think you're ever being too personal. that is what this spot is about, if you ask me.
xo onoclea

[Guest]

pregnant

ps, martian

how's it going for you, btw? how's your drinking situation, if you care to share? i wish you the best.
onoclea

[Guest]

pregnant

relief

Hi Onoclea,
I have to admit I was pretty nervous after saying all that stuff.. and it brought up a lot of emotions for me too. All part of the healing process I suppose? Sometimes I just feel inspired and say things and then afterwards I think 'Oh My Gawd! What did I SAY!' It's only then that it hits me how I might said things in the wrong way & upset someone. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kind reply.
As for drinking - was trying to hold it down to 3 per day but i went a bit AWOL after saying those things.
Think I'm a lot more scared than I'll admit even to myself sometimes.. It just came out of nowhere and I was suddenly in the middle of a binge. I'm pretty safe, put the kids to bed and just watch movies till I pass out.
Had an insight though in the middle of it that my 7 year old son can sound a lot like his dad when we're in an argument.. which can easily set me off in a downward spiral.. So I'll watch that next time. I still have shocking low self esteem.
So all the reasoning & understandig in the world has not actually helped me after all. No that's not true.. I am in a much better place psychologically than in the early days where I was just absolutely terrified and didn't know why!! Drinking was just a daily reflex!! At least these days it's just drinking i'm worried about!!! LOL - though that's no tiny thing.
I'm so GLAD I didn't bother you overmuch. I definitely do not want to lose your friendship!
Woke up this morning with no hangover.. just still completely whacked. Making dizzy school lunches, I felt dreadful & guilty.. but my kids acted like everything's normal. Of course that makes me feel even worse.. and recognised how long this has been going on.
You know what? I too remember times of being sober as being the most wonderful, gentle, delicate, joyous moments of my life.. and long to have them back again. Ordinary experience is bliss.
Can't convince my Dr to prescribe Topa, he suggests Campral, but I must say.. the whole problem with that is I'd need to be sober 5 days first. Although I trust my self to do that, I don't trust that I won't have a seizure or somehting beyond my control. That is the problem if you let an alcohol problem go on for too long.. your body has a mind of its own and it's no longer up to you. I don't even know if I'm at that stage yet, but am worried about it. Last time I did a home-alone detox was xmas 2004

I don't have any other adult here so I can't risk the possibility of severe withdrawal with the kids. I nursed my mother through 5 years of strokes and so I know the brain is not something to mess with.

So I will sit and wait for my book & CDs.. trying not to be too frantic in the meantime.
Thank you again Onoclea,
Sending you love and
Thanks for being there.
MFM

[Guest]

pregnant

Re: relief

hey martian!
you could say just about anything to me and i wouldn't be shocked or annoyed, so please, write on! i'm sorry to hear that at times it's going rough for you. i wish you could get the topa, or the camparal without the promise of five days. seems a bit punitive to me, though maybe there's a medical reason i don't know about.

yes, i shock myself, too, with the depths to which my self esteem has plummetted due to this drinking thing. i can relate to what you're saying. i can't yet imagine the pain that it is to imagine -or feel- the effects of my drinking on my children, as i don't have them yet. but i can TRY to imagine that it must suck. it's hard enough to feel the guilt of hiding my drinking from my husband, who may or may not know what i'm up to. ... i don't know because he doesn't say. usually if i've been drinking he thinks -i think- my altered state is because i've smoked some weed. what a lovely screen. and i must say, it does help me curb the drinking. argh. i suppose it might be worth a new topic to ask about people's reality with smoking ganja, and what -if any- role that has played in their (lack of) sobriety. by no means am i a 'pot head,' but i do thank its presence in my life for keeping me from going on to the 7th or 8th beer. it kinda grounds me. this is not a justification to smoke, it's simply what it is: when i smoke i lose my interest in drink and start to drink tea. i don't even need to smoke that much to get this effect. please don't mistake me for a pusher-woman. arghhh... is this too much for this board?

martian, i thank you for your personal and revealing words. it takes courage to share. i myself hope that i'm not ostracised for revealing what i just did. but my sense is that people who come here to share can handle it. if you'd like to email me through the board, please do. i think i have a grip on how to do that -retrieve and send emails. i think it won't any longer take me weeks to respond.

i thank you, too, for your generosity of spirit. please continue to share, as it brings me up a few notches in my own outlook on my experience. your sharing helps my experience feel less painful.

i've gotten the book, MWO, but am in a quandry of sorts: i can't take the topa or kudzu, much as i'd like to, 'cause i'd truly like to be pregnant, and i think it wouldn't be a healthy combination. ...that is a huge topic about which i feel much guilt and fear ...and that's probably why i'm not preg'o yet! my intention is to meet with an acupuncturist and chinese herbalist in the area, to whom i'll divulge EVERYTHING and hope for the best. wish me luck. please keep writing, and feel free to do it via the email thing here on the board.

blessed be.
oxoxo much love and thanks
onoclea