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**Guest** · February 20, 2006, 02:58 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Elle,
You have come to the right place and you will find nothing but kindness, support and a wealth of experience with drinking problems on this board. MWO has so much to offer. Roberta Jewell (RJ) is always doing research to help make this site a more useful resource for us. Dr. Garcia has a thread and can answer posts too. So, you are in good hands.

As for the drinking in the morning, I did that too and it may have been out of boredom who knows. I was drinking in the morning, hiding alcohol, falling down stairs, and other things that were making me feel horrible about myself. I've been on the program over 5 weeks and what a difference. I feel so much better now. I think you'll like it here and this program is really something! Welcome!

Gracie

**Guest** · February 20, 2006, 03:31 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Welcome, Elle!
This program is in the beginning stages of turning my world around. In a nutshell, I was ruining my marriage with my drinking problem. Talk about "private party". My favorite time to drink was when I was bored. I totally understand that. Don't ever feel judged by how much or where or when or what you drink. We've all been there to some degree. I have learned over the last couple weeks that I have been here:
No judgement: just support and help, in whichever manner each individual person on this board can provide.
Order the book, make a dr. appt. This is the toughest part, I have found, as far as starting the program goes.
Still early for me, and I still have mucho marriage issues to work out, but as for the drinking, I am feeling wonderful about my decision to make a change, and feel in control enough to do so. Never thought that would be the case. I was always obsessed too. Isn't it annoying???? You think "go away!!!"
We are here. Stay close. It WILL get better if you stick with it. Don't dabble. Head first!...when you are ready.
Good luck
Becca

**Guest** · February 20, 2006, 04:48 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Hello Elle,

Oh I know all about drinking in the morning. I live on 14 acres in the country with absolutely no neighbours. I am retired and therefore have all the time in the world and no-one to see me. All I have/want to do is make a fabulous garden. I soon discovered that you can mow and water and prune whilst being nicely anaesthetised. So it started.

I always get up at 6am. In winter I used to take a slug of brandy early in the morning "just to warm me up". In summer I'd just have the one gin & tonic "because it was so hot" . I'd work until lunch time and have a couple of drinks thinking "that's ok - people who have a job drink a glass of wine with lunch". And when I finished work I'd reward myself with my "I've done great things today" drink.

Of course it didn't stop there. I'd then start what I considered to be "normal" drinking - the sort of drinking I imagined "normal" people did - you know the glass of wine while cooking, the glass of wine with dinner, a couple of brandys - maybe another two and so it went until I fell into bed at 8.00pm.

Because I was functioning effectively(?) I didn't see it as a problem. I'd learnt not to use the chainsaw or other power tools after lunch. Any work that involved ladders was done first thing. I accommodated my life to fit around my drinking. I know about re-scheduling appointments "can I have a 9.00am appointment - I'm an early bird". I lied about why I couldn't drive - "flat tyre and can't undo the wheel nuts". I lied and schemed and plotted until it just became too f.....g hard!

Read through all these posts - they're amazing. How do all these people know so much about me????

Like Rebecca - I'm still fairly new at Day 16 but already remarkable changes have taken place. I allow myself to have one "reward" drink at 4.00pm, not a second before (this seems to be important) and then two more for the rest of the evening. I have NOT ONCE been drunk during the past 16 days. I have NOT ONCE had to lie to anyone. This is hitherto unheard of.

And it's rather nice!!

Welcome

**Guest** · February 20, 2006, 06:29 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Topa

Hi Tawnyfrog,
So glad you are sounding so much happier.. Day 16 Great! How did you go with Topa in Oz?
I'm having trouble getting it & have been miserable waiting.
Hi Elle and Welcome to you too. Hope you can hang in there and get with the program. I can imagine drinking in the morning could easily develop as part of a pain management situation.. so don't feel bad. The most important thing is that you recognise it's not good and you can now find a way to make things better.
Best of luck to you and keep posting.
MFM

**Guest** · February 21, 2006, 01:29 AM

helping everyone...but myself

Re: Topa

Hi Elle, And welcome!
Drinking in the AM ? Oh My God!...Well It's always 5 oclock somewhere! That's always been my philosophy. Along w/ "Whatever blows your skirt up". Obviously, a real healthy outlook on life!
Amazing I'm alive...although, I must admit I didn't plan on stickin around for some of this! Lucky for me, It wasn't in my hands...
My personal experie
nce w/the Topa, was pretty tuff, at the beginning. I also take an anti convulsant & the combination, as well as the dosage (100 mg), my Dr. put me on had me completly wacked out for a couple of weeks. I got real discouraged & almost quit.
After reading different posts & suggestions from everyone here, I decreased my dosage by 1/2, that seemed to make a world of dif.
Do be careful starting out , apparently some Dr's will prescribe it, but don't know alot about the titration thing, which seems to be quite important.
Not trying to scare you, & maybe I was more sensitive than some? Just know I'm feeling much better, & glad I didn't give up on this, cause it was real close.
Hugs & Prayers Judie

**Guest** · February 22, 2006, 04:47 AM

helping everyone...but myself

oh tawny - you speak for me in so many ways. thank you. i have been on this site for HOURS tonight, just reading and also found another professional like me! you also have a sharp sense of humor - which i so appreciate and it is much of how i deal with things. it IS SO IMPORTANT to laugh at our selves and to not take ourselves too seriously - and visa versa! we are only here a short time - and ther is humor in everything.
i love your story and identify with it. whether you get this post or not, i will never know - since i don't know what i am doing on this internet stuff yet. i do know you are a love, appreciated and in my Prayers. elle

**Guest** · February 22, 2006, 12:53 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Wow tawny,
16 days! Well done - seems like just yesterday I read your first post. You surely are doing a great job of "clearing out the brambles" (and I loved your hamburger post BTW!)

elle,
No, you are most definitely not alone. Most likely you are "further down" the drinking scale than some, "further up" than others. We are all alike, each unique. We share the same problem, which explains why we are all here at MWO. You are right when you say that if you don't do anything the road ahead is downhill, and you are wise in your decision to do something now. You have already begun your journey by coming to MWO and reading. As others have suggested, keep reading. Keep posting. Information is power. Put together a program with as many components as you possibly can. Adjust it as needed until you get the results YOU want.

I am beginning my fifth month on the program and have been sober since I began. I'm 52, and I am a substance abuse counselor. I am someone who had never had a drink, other than a glass of wine a few times a year, until I was 45. It's fair to say that I knew pretty much everything you should "know" about treatment, addiction, relapse, etc. and yet my drinking was so out of control for several years that I was desperate to find an answer; I would not give up until I found it. It wasn't treatment, or 12-step, though they had some positive things to offer.I found it in MWO and medication.

Something I noticed in your post which is SO important: you write "all of my interests and passions are gone - except for the hope that I will feel good". Elle, that is the most important word - HOPE. It is when people lose hope that the battle can be lost; as long as we still have hope, we still have possibility. Hold on to that hope you can absolutely do this. Moreover, you deserve to do this. You are only 48 years old, for cryin' out loud, you've barely begun the second half of your life so it is time to get out there and start living it!

Best,
Kate

**Guest** · February 22, 2006, 03:01 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Elle,

"It's actually not all that difficult", she furtively suggested on day 18.

Whatever you may go through while trying to abstain/moderate - agitation, tension etc, - NOTHING is as painful as that indecent act of self-flagellation you commit every time you've drunk too much ... yet again. You may be uncomfortable for a while but you certainly won't hurt.

Kate

I attribute my progress so far to the following: Finding this site: Making my first post: Reading your reply.

You tweaked something in me that seemed to soothe the savage beast. I'm still "weeding out the brambles" but already I can see tiny tips of lush new growth. Thank you again. And thank you for throwing in the occasional Goethe quote. I've never met anyone who can do that.

Good thoughts to all
Tawny

**Guest** · February 22, 2006, 05:59 PM

helping everyone...but myself

tawny,

Thank you for your very kind words - you do have a way with the language, bet you have a bit of Irish blood coursing around there somewhere! Truly though, it is you who are doing the work, though I agree that when we share the journey it really does lessen the loneliness of this disease. Isolation is the killer.

You brought sunshine to a pretty gloomy New England afternoon.

Hugs,Kate

**Guest** · February 22, 2006, 07:47 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Thank you Kate. No Irish blood but grew up with alcohol on the table at every meal in Germany! I posted the following on the "health care spot" too... in case you do not go there (still getting oriented with this.) Hi All: Thank you for your responses, the time you take to write and be supportive. I hope I can be this also. Today I find since the mere contact of this sight - finding a strength - in recognition that I am not alone. My work is very isolating and so are my living circumstances at times.
I know - not THINK - that being in health care can often be isolating and even when not working one on one each day, even friends can tap you "dry" (not the kind of DRY I am looking for!) for advice and help and opinions: if it happens to be what they don't want to hear (different from a client relationship) it just creates problem(s). I have such a genuine yearning to sit and talk and visit with others and laugh or cry on an even level... so I isolate myself more and don't talk to anyone anymore. It never helps if you are attractive, and/or accomplished where women friends are concerned (I know that sounds terrible). The imagined competition - that doesn't exist in my mind and I sincerely do not understand, - does not feel supportive and loving. Anyway - I just needed to say that because I feel like I can here, in this venue. Beginning to drink has helped me with that isolation to feel good. There are other circumstances as in living rurally, being alone a lot. I have totally withdrawn when I am not working. I have even determined I don't want to work anymore in this field. I know I have a lot of work to do on myself. On the POSITIVE side see this as an oportunity for growth and change. My sobs are to be heard on a HEART and SOUL level: not an intellectual or strategic level: I believe that has to be part of the strategic solution - first and foremost. (here I go!......) Thanks for your honesty, being here and providing this space. With Love and Blessings to all who hurt. E

**Guest** · February 22, 2006, 07:52 PM

helping everyone...but myself

elle
I am very familiar with that very powerful urge and it goes like this,......

After all I have done and achieved and been through and endured and accomplished and managed and multitasked and miraculously pulled off and listened to and figured out and everything I have put up with today,...hell.......
"I DESERVE A DRINK!!!!!"

The problem is it was never just one drink.

Anyway, with this program I have turned that thinking around to : "I DESERVE NOT TO DRINK!"

and so do you... This program has allowed me the distance from alcohol that I couldnt seem to get any other way. A sortof indifference to it, or rather power over it where as before it only had the power over me. I really cant put it into words. But believe me this program is worth a try!

I am on week 9. MWO has changed my life in so many wonderful ways.

I am a healthcare provider too, and I was starting to do some scary drinking behaviors as well. I was starting to do some pre noon drinking. Some drinking alone, some slugging down of a few drinks before going to events so I wouldnt have to drink as much in public to get to that happy place, or appear to be a lush. I was starting to show up at inappropriate events with a buzz (like childrens birthday parties, book fairs, my kickboxing class, even work one time). I was starting to hide bottles from my husband. I was not sleeping well, I was waking up with the mantra, "I dont hate myself -I dont hate myself-I dont hate myself......do I?"

I dont know if this makes you feel better about "where you are at", but we all on this board have our own personal dark place, a place that we could no longer tolerate, and one day made a decision to change, or are still gearing up for that decision.

This program is working for me I think because I was really ready. I dove in head first and did everything in RJ's book. The self hypnosis, the exercise, the supplements, the topa, all of it.

I really hear you about taking care of everyone else , but not taking care of yourself, and there just came a day when I heard this little voice in my head that said "PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF"!

I can hear the pain in your post, and it is VERY familiar to me. I wish you the peace and deep nights of sleep and return of self esteem that I have found with this program. Good luck!

**Guest** · February 22, 2006, 09:07 PM

helping everyone...but myself

vida - thanks for the hope and empathy. i felt good reasing it and you asnswered questions i wanted to ask you. congratulations on your peace of mind and recovery. one question i do have is whether you got the topa from a physicain or on the net? how was it beginning with it? el

**Guest** · February 23, 2006, 12:44 PM

helping everyone...but myself

el
I got it from my physician. First I changed my insurance plan to cover prescription drugs, because previously I had a plan without a prescription drug feature. I am 39 and have been fortunate to have been healthy enough to only have used one prescription in over 10 years!

Anyway, Topamax is NOT generic and it is very expensive. My doctor had a free sample bottle containing 42 pills of 25 mg. She has given me 2 of those. I have a $750.00 deductible! The first two prescriptions (50 mg, then 100mg pills) were over two hundred and three hundred dollars each respectively. But it is worth every penny!!!!!!!

Besides ..sit down and calculate how much money you have been spending on alcohol every week, every month, every year....

So I have still not met my deductible, but I am getting close. However, I dont even think about that. I am only just 2 months into this,.... I started 2 days before christmas. Difficult and weird time to start, but hey, when its time, you know it!!! and its time!!

And to answer your question, I had immediate effects, of not wanting to drink very much, also appetite suppression and some other minor side effects but nothing outwardly noticeable. I can tell you about these if you'd like. Nothing as bad as hangovers, acute embarrassment when recalling the previous evening, self -loathing and the pain of over drinking after telling yourself you wouldnt for the 500th time! (plus the long term health damage of alcohol to the body)

Anyway, I started with the CDs and supplements about a week before the topa and now I am at 200 mg. I feel pretty much normal other than not caring about drinking.

I have not had a perfect record, I over-did it once in mexico in january, and I think the medication made my hangover worse than it ever could have been other wise. I dont recommend overriding yourself and trying really hard to get drunk while on this program. I mean it says right on the bottle " do not drink while on this medication" LOL! It may have been a bit of the "tourista" that made me so sick, because I also ate lobster tostadas at a roadside stand but boy did I pay a price! I havent even tried to drink more than 2.5 drinks in the whole 9 weeks, other than that, and I havent really wanted to , to tell the truth.

What i learned from that is dont delay your afternoon dose till really late at night (this is a mistake if you are in social situations with alcohol....because it would be sabotage, allowing yourself to drink several drinks late in the evening. This is not WHAT YOU WANT. I worked on this with the cd's ...that what I wanted was to put the whole lifestyle of drinking like a fish and getting drunk "behind me"....."thing of the past" and all that!!!!
So, Topa has surely been a KEY ingredient and made it almost easy. But everything else in the program has been important as well.

Sorry about the ramble. Hope this helps.

**Guest** · February 23, 2006, 09:26 PM

helping everyone...but myself

Vida - thanks again! this is really helpful for me - partly because you mase me laugh - you are so funny! I asked for my scrip today and still don't kow if I will get it as my doc wants to check it out. One of the things I have heard about is in comparison to Naltrexone...it doesn't let you feel anyting good at all - like after running, etc. that Naltrexone basicaly induces a flat affect....I can't live like that! I LOVE HUMOR - it saves my life. A "dry" (haha) humor at that, espceially if you read anything else i posted, except for a few, I just love to bring the light side out fo things - i laugh with/about myself a lot, and see humor in just about everything. So if the Topa is going to make me feel FLAT - that would be a serious problem for me.
You asked if I wanted anymore detals about being on Topa - if it feels OK for you - YES! I want whatever feelings, reaction, expereinces you have had with it. DO NOT in anyway feel bad if you changed your mind and feel uncomfortable about it. Thank you for wha you have given me so far. El

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