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[Guest]

Hello,
Well I have been reading through this site and a lot of the postings over the past two days and thought that I would go ahead and post myself. I have read through a lot of stories and found that I can relate to many of them.

On November 1st, after a Holloween that I drank way too much, after that I decided that I was going to stop drinking for awhile. I didn't think (and still don't) that I was far enough in the hole to need AA or other counseling, I thought that through the internet I would be able to work this out on my own and with online support like I found here. Well 4 days later (and 4 days of abstinence) I went home from work only to find that my husband didn't think I could do it on my own and had arranged for an intervention.

I walked in the door only to find some stranger, my family (parents and aunt) and my husband sitting in the living room discussing my problem. Then my husband tells me of these in-patient clinics that he has found for me and that it will help me. I was so angry that he did not even give me a chance to try this on my own. After listening to what each person (my family) had to say I decided and we agreed that I would attend outpatient treatment.

So for the past 10 days, my life has been consumed with this outpatient program. I work from 8:30 to 5:30 then have to go to group meetings Monday, Tuesday and Thursday from 6:30 to 7:30, have a meeting with my counseler for an hour every week and on saturdays attend group sessions from 10:30 - 12:30. My life is consumed with doing this treatment. I just feel like I was not allowed to prove to myself that I could do it on my "own" (my less orthodox way). Moreover, I feel like I do not have anytime for myself. On Wednesdays and the weekends are now my only time that I am able to do yoga and jog - activities in my life that I feel are essential for my mental health.

After finding MWO this is the type of treatment that I think would better help me, however, I just don't know how I can make my husband believe that this would help. Although I have not had a drop of alcohol in 17 days I do not feel, as my husband wants to believe, that it is because of the group meetings. I am not going to say that they don't work, because they do, it is something about knowing that if you have a drink, you have to walk back into that group and tell them that you are back at day 1 that keeps me from drinking.

I have told my husband about this site and asked him to read some of the postings. But he has yet to do this. It seems that he wants me to do things his way and is not being as receptive to my requests as I am to his. Today I ordered 3 bottles of the Kudzu and plan on trying that along with the l-glutamine to not only stop cravings but also (hopefully) to allow me to drink in moderation. I told my husband about this today and he got very upset with me saying that it has only been 2 weeks and how could I even think about going back to drinking already. I explained to him that the holidays are coming up (not to mention my birthday) and that I would like to have something that will hopefully keep me from either wanting a drink or at least keep me from having more than one or two. Am I unrealistic to think that I can have a glass of wine with dinner this early in the game?? How can I get my husband to see that the outpatient treatment isn't my cup of tea? That I would do better on a program like this? Also, what is considered a relapse? Is having a glass of wine with dinner a relapse? I know somebody else on here had spoken of this but I just really don't see how this outpatient treatment is going to make me see a new light, find a new power that is going to solve all my problems.

Also, I had mentioned in one of the sessions that one day I want to be able to go have wine with dinner or attend a social event and have a drink. Everybody in the group laughed and said "oh yeah your new here... it's never going to happen, you'll fall back into a relapse" This lack of encouragement really discourages me, especially after reading through here about so many people being able to drink in moderation with the help of supplements and topamax (which I am not so sure about yet).

Anyhow, sorry this is so long and jumpy, I just needed to get it out there. Thank you for taking the time to read this and I appreciate any resposes that anybody has. Also thank you for writing on other posts they have been an insperation for me.

Thanks,
Nickie

[Guest]

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Nickie,
welcome.. its a bummer this issue, isnt it? However, this forum is a great support.
ATT

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Nickie,

OK, deep breath, for what I'm about to tell you:

I'm sorry, sweetie, you are an alcoholic. And you are in major denial. I am sure you are hearing those words right now from your family, your group, etc... Maybe if they come from me in a different way, you'll hear them better. You can't drink now. You shouldn't be thinking about whether you can have a drink in a week or two. Yes, you can work this program. No, you cannot ever do it without topamax, so do not ever think about it. You will never be a normal drinker. There is no way you can ever drink moderately without that medication in your system. I do not care how many times you care to test it out. IT WILL NOT WORK. Many of us have tried it. It just puts us back where we started. I'm glad you are where you are right now. Many people don't get to go through rehab. Someday..I think..you will be glad you did. You may not like AA and the 12 step approach used in rehab..and you don't necessarily need to look for answers in AA, but search for similarities in others. There are so many things you can find in sharing with other people. Your husband loves you and cares about you and wants you to get better. Show him that you can get by in abstinence. Read this website through and through. You will find that a "normal" drinker...one that drinks in "moderation"..is one that can abstain.

We have all been there. But you need to be honest with yourself first. You need to heal yourself.

Jen

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Nickie,

Hello and welcome. Sounds like you?re going through some pretty heady stuff right now. To be put through an intervention when you don?t want to be (does anyone want to be?) has got to feel a little violating of your most basic rights. I know I?d feel angry for being treated like I couldn?t make my own decisions, upset that people were doing this behind my back and frustrated over the lack the control. And because of this, I?d probably fight?even if seeming to go along with?the therapy, because it was not one of my own choosing. This is an extremely natural reaction to an intervention. Ultimately though?and it may not be while I was in the therapy?I?d probably come to realize the motivation for my family to do this was really quite pure, and their hearts in the right place. And even if it wasn?t the perfect solution for me, I could get something out of it that put me further down the path than where I was when I started out.

You say you wish your husband would read the posts here and be as receptive to this therapy as he is to the outpatient therapy. I think I understand why he is not, at least at this point. In choosing to intervene, he saw a series of options in front of him and made a choice. A difficult choice for him no doubt, but one he felt he must make for your sake, his sake and the family?s sake. And in making that choice, he knew he must remain completely steadfast in the event you fought him on it. He had to be single-minded, at least in his point-of-view. And because he is single-minded and has determined outpatient therapy is the route he feels will work, I?m not sure there is a gracious way to exit that therapy without it radically upsetting your husband and family as they have ?determined? it is the best option. Most anything you say will likely be viewed as a way of ?reasoning? your way out of therapy and back to drinking.

There is nothing however, that precludes you from doing MWO and outpatient therapy at the same time. In fact, the one-two punch may be quite extraordinary. It?s fantastic you?ve already got 17 alcohol-free days and have ordered the kudzu and l-glutamine. Both are really fantastic at curbing cravings. If you haven?t yet, you should order RJ?s book and the hypno CDs. MWO is a holistic program and its success?to my mind?is based upon the combination of all of the factors of the program.

A few words of caution and advice. Neither kudzu nor l-glutamine are meant to allow you to drink moderately. Their purpose is to curb cravings. Topamax, the prescription drug most frequently used in the program is used for those who wish to either drink moderately or abstain. Campral is used as well, but is only recommended for those who wish to abstain. To attempt to drink moderately without the use of Topamax is, I fear, inviting a relapse.

From your posts it seems, to me anyway, that you have yet to have the insidious monster safely chained. Your yearning for a drink comes through rather clearly, and it doesn?t really feel like a voice that says, ?I?ll stop at one.? Sobriety is a very fragile thing and I believe much of it is a state of mind, where you can achieve almost a kind of ?indifference? towards alcohol. And it?s not the kind of indifference that means you don?t care...it?s the kind that means you don?t obsess. It?s a well-guarded indifference, because as an ex-problem drinker, you can never, ever take your sobriety for granted. For some that ?indifference? comes rather quickly, for others it is a daily struggle.

Moderate drinking is not for everyone. Some come to this program hoping to make that their goal only to find their relationship with alcohol is simply never going to be healthy, no matter what. And so, after a few unsuccessful attempts with moderate drinking, even on Topamax, they choose abstinence. Everybody is different, and you?ll find what is right for you. But I would advise you to wait until you feel like you have the monster on a tight leash before you think about having anything to drink, and that you are on Topamax at a fairly decent titration level first.

This is not an easy journey as you know, and made harder still by an intervention you did not want. I think you know your family has done what they?ve done out of concern and love. It doesn?t necessarily make the therapy any easier to go through, but at the end of the day, knowing they stand behind you is what is important.

Please keep posting and let us know of your progress. This is a good group of people who care and can completely empathize with what you are going through.

Amy

[Guest]

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I'm back and catching up on the boards--am very grateful to all of you who are providing support and advice to one another. It's wonderful to see so many new members, too.

I do think we need to be careful about projecting definitive success or failure to those who are just starting out. As many of you know, I've always encouraged individuals to undertake all facets of this program--medication included--because that's what appears to work best for the majority of people. But I have certainly observed others conquer their cravings without the meds. It may require a little more diligence, enhanced nutritional supplementation or other alternative health solutions. For some, it works.

The decision about how to best approach MWO is an individual one. And while the experience of others is enormously helpful--that's what this message board is all about, after all--ultimately the most appropriate course of action is up to that individual. The choices they make are often the result of an evolution in self discovery. So we should not dictate the path of another based on what we feel worked best of any of us.

We all deserve an opportunity to try, to fail, to learn and to grow...and ultimately to free ourselves of this addiction. If we don't own that process I'm afraid we'll never get better.

RJ

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Cravings, yes, most definitely...a person can go abstinent using supplements if they apply the proper techniques.

However, in this instance, in this post, for example, Nickie's post implies that she is hopeful that the supplements may lead to moderation. And I think she has false hope. I also think she hasn't accepted her problem yet.

RJ, I don't know if your post was addressing her post or if you were just making a statement in general because I really think you should reconsider where you posted your statement. I respectfully agree with what you said but not where you posted it.

I don't think Nickie should worry about using supplements or medication right now. I think she needs to accept her drinking issue first.

[Guest]

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Hummmm

I, too, have been away for quite sometime. I have missed reading...posting. I really don't have time to say much......but have to respond to this thread.

Nickie, I am proud of you for not leaving your husband.....this is something we have to decide on our own to conquer. If we try to quit because our love ones are on our case......will it last?? Don't get discouraged, I sense you realize you drink too much/have a drinking problem. That is why you have come to this forun. Don't pay attention to these girls......sometimes they say a little to much!! HA...HA..

Hello everyone,

Reba

[Guest]

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Let's give this a try

Thank you everybody for your comments and suggestions. Your comments have really helped me see a new light on this situation and with handling my drinking problems. I have to go to my 12 step group session now but I wanted to check in before leaving. I will return here to keep everybody posted and again thank you very much for your support, I find this very helpful.
Nickie

[Guest]

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Thanks for the update, Nicki and keep us posted. As you can tell, you'll find tons of support here on the message board.

My earlier comments were made as a general statement but I was reminded of it while reading this particular thread. I've been contacted by a number of individuals who are reluctant to start the program because they don't want to take the meds. I hate to see that happen because I believe the other elements: nutritional supps, hypnotherapy, diet and exercise may still be extremely beneficial to them. And of course, as we've seen on the board, people often come to the conclusion after initiating the program without medication that they do, in fact, need it to augment their therapy--whether they're shooting for moderation or complete abstinence.

I can certainly re-post my message elsewhere and I apologize if I offended you, Jen. I appreciate everyone's input--yours included. You've been a very active member of this community. I'm just trying to provide some guidance and balance is all.

RJ

[Guest]

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Hi Nickie

Just wanted to add my two cents worth here. I feel for you as well, poor thing as I also believe you are in a bit of denial about your problem, but you have to come to term with that yourself. However, I really feel for your poor husband as well. He must have been through hell with your drinking and care very much for you to have gone to the trouble to get the family together for an intervention and to look for a program for you. A lot of spouses might have just left you, not the other way around.

Moderate drinking for problem drinkers/alcoholics is a radically new notion in modern medical science. It's probably equivalient to a "world is round" theory in the middle ages! So I suppose reactions of disbelief and anger are to be expected - even I'm not sure of it yet (I'm abstinent, or trying to be anyway). Plus I think everyone does agree that a certain level of abstinence needs to be acquired before moderation can be achieved with any level of confidence. So I can understand why your husband and your group friends were dismayed when you mentioned it.

As someone else mentioned, you could keep your hubby happy and do his program and do the MYO program as well. This is a great group of people. All of us, you as well, have a hideous problem that we have identified. That, in itself is a form of control. There is much more power in numbers and we discuss shared problems here and ways to overcome cravings. The medications, hypno tapes, nutritional supplements and exercise certainly help but I really do think the bond we all share and the things we chat about is the strongest ammunition we have to fight this addiction.

All the best
Mish

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RJ..no offense taken..it was just a sensitive post that struck a chord with me. I guess like Misha said moderation is such a new concept that we need to be careful with. If moderation is the goal, the medication needs to be taken. I think the program can be powerful with the supplements, as a whole, without the medication, for abstinence.

I guess the thing we need to keep in mind..maybe some of us forget..I don't know. But do you remember? When you want to quit drinking..or slow down and "know" that you have a problem..you are on a quest to find anything ANYTHING that will allow you to drink like a normal person. You may stop for a few days, make promises to yourself that you can recommit to just drinking one or two drinks a night again and then you slip again. So, maybe you search the internet for an answer..look for a book or a "way" or an herb. I just don't want someone to see MWO as their temporary way...maybe just buy the kudzu or the l glutamine and think that they can drink in moderation. To think it will heal them.

And Reba, to reference your post, I don't think loved ones can make you quit if you don't want to or are not ready, but I think that the people who love you are the most important motivators leading to your sobriety as long as they don't enable you.

[Guest]

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Thank you for your wisdom, Jen. The great danger of this site, and MWO, is that it makes moderation too attractive, too soon. I'm placing your reply on my refrigerator next to all of these lovely schedules for supplements, hypnotherapy, medication, and exercise.
Thank you.
Sam

[Guest]

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Thanks Sam. It's very important to know I can have a positive impact on someone. Thank you. I needed that tonight.

[Guest]

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Im also catching up on posts.

Jen: Some of us are doing the program w/o Topa. When I began I used large dosages of kudzu. I am now past the three month point , still abstinent, and have eliminated all but my morning routine of AllOne, and the other AM supps including kudzu.

I don't know if I can drink moderately, but, dont wish to try.

[Guest]

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If anything in this particular post, Rigpa, I think I am trying to downplay the moderation aspect and emphasize abstinence.