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[starty]

A few thoughts from the Newbie's Nest:

This is a brilliant post Byrdie. As you know I had 7 years sober. 7 whole years and all it took was one drink to send me back down the rabbit hole to end up in a worse position than I was previously. Yes it ALWAYS gets worse.

[jane27]

It's a bullshit and a un helpful post ....IMHO .to newbies .....it's her ego gone mad she is ruining this place with her ignorance and posts that she knows all ! I suggest harm miniastion can save lotsa lives than her bullshit abstinence constant repeat you can't moderate diatribe.... it's boring and stupid and above all ...so ignorant

Your post is angry, vengeful and doesn't belong here.

[Mick]

Malodrama....IMHO... there is no humble in your opinion!!! I think the word you are looking for in your self opinionated blurb that you wrote is minimization as opposed your attempt ....Byrdies post does no more harm than to remind us of the issues and pitfalls of drink despite the passing of drink free time we have...unlike your post which is absolute b.llox...happy to have read your "post" later on in the day,before a clown like you could attempt to spoil it

[Mick]

I take note of your reply in very basic English...I also take note of the wording below your avatar name..Junior Member ...as two separate classes ..you fit both admirably...both junior and definitely a member ....now run along sonny

[Mick]

really?lovely as it is spending time talking at you key, board warrior,I would rather watch paint dry...you waste of space..come back when you have something constructive to say and do....have a nice life

[treetops]

Yes Malo, as you point out - There are threads on MWO for people who choose to follow moderation. Thats the route they are taking and the very best to them. But the overwhelming majority of people who end up coming to MWO have tried moderation or a form of MM and it has not worked for them. Instead they chose other options that most often means long-term abstinence. Some people here are using meds, especially Baclofen or Naltrexone - but they are not aiming for moderation management - they are aiming (I think) for eventual indifference to AL. These meds are a slower route than opting for immediate abstinence but meds have their place and do help many people. If that interests you can look up the Meds threads.
So we do take different routes on MWO to ending our battle with AL. We generally don't however use abusive and rude language. There are lots of websites on the internet where you can vent in that manner but this is not the place for it.
People coming here are in very desperate situations and they need support. They are looking for advice and of course that sometimes can appear rigid or harsh. Its based often on years on experience. I dont agree 100% with a lot of views but I really appreciate the support and concern that is given here.

[NoSugar]

Anyone who is interested in learning to drink moderately will find those sites, Malo, as or more easily than they will find MWO, which is pretty much buried in internet searches. If a person is willing to wade through this toolbox, he or she probably is truly looking for some help to stop drinking. However, you've now given the links in this thread so they are available as options to anyone who wants to explore moderation rather than abstinence. Let's end this conversation.

[caysea]

Hi All

Could someone pass the popcorn. New entertainment has arrived.

KC

[Spiritfree]

Hi to all and I truly wish peace to all.

I have just recently stumbled upon this thread and I find that it is somewhat sad but also enlightening at the same time.
MalOdrama, I have been on the same end of stick that you are now on -for over two years in the medication section of the forum.
I chose to continue to pass on my 'message' of how important it is/was to stop drinking while you are taking medications to stop drinking. I have been blasted, sandbagged, kicked, mutilated, etc. for having stuck by guns -so to speak.

Mal, although I know that I am right regarding the fact that one must quit drinking to overcome their brain disorder, I was too forceful in expressing my knowledge of this fact. I became the "target" of most on that section (and then other sections).

Today, I realize that the way that I express my knowledge and opinions is not always the best way (maybe just like this post).
I started a new thread in the med section that semi starts out with how I began and where I found an answer. (Moderation damned near killed me -lol, but true.)

Please do not think or assume that I am just 'another' one jumping on the bandwagon. I am not. I will make the following statement in hopes that someone might just read, understand, and get some help:

If you are MODERATING your intake of alcohol or other drug, then you remained controlled by that chemical. One day, that chemical that is allowing you to so called 'moderate', will take over your life to a point of possible no return. Please understand that I am simply not concerned about what anyone thinks about my information relative to alcohol (other drugs). I am simply one of the lucky ones who survived long term moderation -if that is what you want to call it. Moderation eventually kills the moderator and destroys part of the lives of his or her family and friends.

[Baclofenman]

Sprit - I am intrigued - You do not rate moderation, yet judging from your ramblings you do not abstain - What exactly do you want?

I am certainly of the abstinence camp but I am not so blinkered as to force my opinion on anyone else

Regards


Bacman

[Spiritfree]

Sprit - I am intrigued - You do not rate moderation, yet judging from your ramblings you do not abstain - What exactly do you want?

I am certainly of the abstinence camp but I am not so blinkered as to force my opinion on anyone else

Regards


Bacman

Bacman -thank you for your reply.

Bacman, have you ever had a friend or relative die as the result of addiction? Have you ever sat in a hospital room with one of your siblings while they suffer and then die as a result of cirrhosis or other drug induced death? Have you ever been close to death yourself as a result of your addiction? I have and it is very horrible and tragic -for everyone involved.

Above and beyond all things else, please refrain from preaching to me about expressing my opinions relative to AUD or drug addiction and how I might possibly being trying to help others -in my OWN way. Your words are quite worthless when it comes to me trying to others. Go play patty cake with the others and leave me the hell alone.

Bacman, I AM so blinkered (?) as to express MY opinion any way that I feel might be helpful to that one person who may not have to die as a result of the addiction brain disorder. In all sincerity, do you think that I care, in the least little bit, about your opinion of me, or in your opinion of my way of trying to help others not die as a result of their own brain disorder? I only respond to you in hopes that someone that hurting and dying might read the forum and read as many posts as they can in an effort to save their own life. Bacman, I know who you are and I know your agenda, and that is ok as long as it helps bring attention to people who are struggling to free themselves of their addiction. It is not ok to try and suppress the opinions of others and bring harm to those others.

88,000 human lives die as a direct result of alcohol every year in the USA. That is equivalent to 241 human deaths per day (10 human lives per hour). I am glad that you are in the abstinent camp because the 10 people who just died while I was writing this were not. Peace to you.

--sf--

[NoSugar]

Reposted from:https://www.mywayout.org/community/sh...=1#post1665061

I came across a book and website by a woman who works with people with addictions (and undesired habits in general). So far I've been very impressed by what I've read. I wish I had been exposed to this years ago - this understanding would make letting an addiction go so much easier.

The Top 10 Big Ideas

1. It’s Not You, It’s Your Brain
You are much more than your brain, just like you’re much more than your finger. If your finger became injured, you wouldn’t take it personally. It wouldn’t reflect on you as an individual; it wouldn’t say anything about your character.
You wouldn’t need to explore your past or dive into your emotions in order for your finger to heal.
And you don’t need to do those things in order for your habit or addiction to end. Your brain is addicted or habituated, period. “You” are just experiencing the effects of being a human being with a brain. Your brain can change without “you” needing to.

2. Part of Your Brain that Represents Your Habit Can’t Possibly Act on Your Habit
To totally and completely oversimplify things, assume your brain consists of two primary parts: the Lower and the Higher Brain.
Your habit is primarily associated with your Lower Brain. The Lower Brain is the slower, older, more habitual and pattern-sensitive part of the brain. The Lower Brain is non-thinking and it loves routine and consistency. When the Lower Brain picks up on a pattern, it fights to hold on to it. The Lower Brain is responsible for producing urges that keep your habit alive.
The Higher Brain is the thinking, rational, decision making part of the brain (remember we’re generalizing for simplicity here, big time). It calls the shots. It also coordinates all of your voluntary muscle movements, so if the Higher Brain isn’t on board with some action or behavior, it ain’t happening.
Do you see it? That means that your Lower Brain strives for routine and does what it can to keep your habit alive, but if you (via your Higher Brain) don’t make the decision to act on those urges, your habit discontinues.

3. Your habit is alive only because you act on urges. Don’t act on urges.The Lower Brain produces urges (also known as drives or cravings) for your habit. That’s the best way it knows the keep your habit alive. It might send out a strong urge for a drink, for example. That urge is uncomfortable, producing tension and emotion. You’d do pretty much anything to make it go away.
Most likely, the fastest, easiest way you know to make your urge go away is to obey the urge and drink. You make that decision, via your Higher Brain. The urge alone can’t possibly hurt you, but you don’t always realize that. When you do realize that, you suddenly have another choice.

4. Urges fade
Urges can feel horrible; no one is denying that. But they are also temporary. When you feel your urge and decide to not give into it, it begins to fade and retreat.
So there is another way to make an urge go away (other than obeying it): do nothing and let it fade on its own.

5. Willpower is the wrong tool
An urge is a thought and all thoughts fade in time.
Willpower is using new thought to overpower old thought. It’s when you meet an old thought (e.g., “I sure could go for a drink”) with a new thought, hoping to squash the old one (e.g., “No! You will not have a drink! You are stronger than that!”)
Using new thought to overpower old thought gets you in a thought tug-of-war, where old thoughts are showered with attention. Attention actually makes them grow, not weaken.
Rather than trying to think yourself out of your old thoughts, let those old thoughts fade. Don’t focus on them in order to overpower them—remove your focus and let them take care of themselves. It’s much easier that way.

6. Triggers and circumstances don’t matter.
You’ve probably considered the things that appear to trigger your habit.
There are a couple problems with focusing on external triggers. The first problem is that triggers are inconsistent. Looking for triggers can be like playing a game of whack-a-mole—just when you think you found one, another one pops up. You are more likely to fall into your habit when you’re stressed…except for that one time you did it feeling calm. Or it gets worse at night…except last week when it was horrible in the morning. Trying to predict when urges will strike based on external triggers leaves you feeling like a powerless victim of circumstance, not to mention completely confused.
The second issue is that triggers ultimately don’t matter. Maybe that should have been the first issue. What matters is not what creates urges; the origin of urges may always be somewhat of a mystery. All that matters is whether you obey your urges or not. The sole reason you have a habit is because you obeying urges.

7. It may take practice
It is truly incredible that the human brain can change.
And yet, brains are remarkably efficient and they don’t necessarily like to change. If your habit or addiction has been around for a while, chances are good that thoughts and urges about it won’t go away overnight.
They can, however, lose their perceived power overnight. It doesn’t even take that long, actually—it can happen in an instant. When you begin to see that urges are created by the Lower Brain but the Lower Brain is powerless to act on them…and when you begin to see that urges fade when you don’t obey them…your habit doesn’t look so powerful anymore.

8. The truth about setbacks
Setbacks feel like a big deal. But they aren’t.
Peek up at Big Idea #7, and consider the fact that your brain is very used to your habit or addiction. There will most likely be setbacks. They are meaningless in and of themselves.
Yes, meaningless. The only way a setback can hurt you or actually set you back, is if you decide it is meaningful and you use it as an excuse to spiral downward.
When you see that setbacks are simply part of the process, you’re not set back at all.

9. It is much simpler than you might think
As you’ve seen, the only reason your habit is alive today is because you obey the urges your Lower Brain produces. Once you see that you can experience an urge and you don’t have to give into it…that it will fade on its own if you do nothing…it is much easier to stop acting on your urges so much.
That’s all it ever takes to end any habit or addiction. Your habit is not “you” and it is not personal. It is simply your brain doing what it does.
You do not need to identify triggers or change anything about yourself. You don’t need to go to therapy or work out your deeper emotional issues. None of that is what keeps your habit alive.
All you ever have to do is see the simplicity in it all and let your Lower Brain urges fade without giving into them. The rest will be history.

10. Sustainable change
The best news about this approach is that the change is deep and sustainable.
When you see the truth about urges, nothing else matters. Anything can happen. You can have urges. You can even have strong urges. You will know what they are and what to do (i.e., nothing). They will fade and you’ll be back on the path, changing your brain for good.

[stirly-girly]

I am an alcoholic and I admit it freely to myself and to others on this forum. I wish I could be so frank about it in my personal life as opposed to my virtual life but unfortunately, in this, my adopted country, to there is not the understanding of, nor the willingness to understand what being addicted to something means, whether it be alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, sex, or whatever. We’re kind of all thrown in the same pot to boil.
I agree 100% with you as far as the – “I’m not/wasn’t as bad as that person” in that I didn’t drink as much/often/for as long a period, etc., etc. IMHO, being addicted to alcohol (I can only speak about that substance), is more a psychological problem/issue than a physical one. Yes, at some stage, people who are not “maintaining” the alcohol level in their system to avoid the DT’s, withdrawal symptoms, whatever they may be, they will have the shakes, fogginess, headaches and even symptoms as bad as seizures and even death but there is another side to it. The psychological factor. I remember so well Oney said at one time that she had been “moderating” and finally decided to quit for good and why she did. Moderating for her meant that she would only have two or three glasses of wine on a Friday or Saturday evening with her partner. The problem she said, was how much time she spent from one Friday to the next thinking about when she could take that first sip, counting how many days til Friday. After she realized how much time those thoughts took out of her day, she said she realized that the two or three glasses of wine simply weren’t worth spending her time thinking about all week long. She decided to quit once and for all and she put alcohol out of her mind. She said she felt free, she had so much time to think of other things and to direct her thoughts to positive and productive things that she could do instead of obsessing with those couple of drinks on a Friday night. So, again IMHO, it’s not always the amount a person drinks that makes them dependent on or addicted to al, it’s also the time they spend thinking about when they can have that first drink, the fact that their mind is obsessed with the when and where, even if it’s just one night a week. So we shouldn’t let that “I’m not that bad” thought fool us into thinking we don’t have a problem if we do. And to get right down to it – except for a few people who surf the net and read various sites, forums, etc., if you are reading this, if you are a member of MWO, you already suspect or know that you have a problem with alcohol, no matter the amount you consume and how often.
The other thing I’d like to touch on is the fact of people who relapse after going AF. And I’m not talking about people who are binge drinkers and go off on a binge every once in a while. I’m talking about people who drink small or large amounts of AL every day and have decided to be AF, then at some point, pick up that drink again. IMHO, in 99% of the cases, there has been some kind of thoughts niggling at them for a few days before they decide to take a drink again. I think that it is very rare that someone just suddenly decides to up and take a drink after a spell of being AF. Perhaps they’re offered a glass of champagne at a wedding and they say – WTF and drink it, thinking that it won’t do any harm to have just that one glass. Someone here wrote that that is what had happened to them and it started them on a downward spiral right back to the place they had been before – getting drunk daily and drinking even more than before after having been sober for several years. We who truly know that we are alcoholics, know that we cannot ever again have just one drink. It never works that way. Ever. The addiction will always be with us no matter how long we are sober. The expression “recovering alcoholic” was not coined as a cute phrase. It is the truth. We will always be recovering because we can never be completely cured. Our minds (IMHO) are not wired that way and we have seen examples of it over and over again, whether on this and similar forums or in the news about celebrities, etc., who go back to drinking or using after years of being clean. What I’m trying to say with all of this is that if you who are sober, feel that you are starting to struggle with your sobriety, that you have had those niggling thoughts, or think that a glass or two won’t hurt, sit yourself down and think about it very thoroughly before you allow those thoughts to continue. Go back in your mind to the way you were before you got sober. Think over the last few days, weeks, months of your drinking and remember what a freaking nightmare it was. Both for yourself and often for those around you. Yes, the first glass or two will give you a buzz, but that is usually where the good feeling ends. From there on, it’s you trying to control your intake so others don’t notice how much you’re drinking, trying to control your speech so as not to slur your words. Your vision starts to get blurry and you can’t walk in a straight line to the bathroom - you bump into things, maybe even fall down. Or if you’re home alone, you could even get to the point of falling and hitting your head on a table or fall down the stairs. Now is that what you really wanted when you thought that a glass or two can’t hurt or would make you feel happier or you’d have more fun? I don’t think so. I’m not preaching here, I’m just saying what is true for me. And for those who are sober and going through a rough time, whether it be with their personal relationships, work circumstances, difficult relatives, financial situations, whatever, drinking, has never, ever, ever made a single one of those situations better and only makes you, personally, feel a hundred times worse. You’ve still got to deal with all the shit, but you’ve got a hangover to deal with as well as the disappointment you feel for letting yourself take that drink again. I’m not judging anyone – I don’t have the right to do that. It’s just that over 5 months ago, I finally decided, after a nightmarish 15 months of getting drunk every single night, that I was finished with AL and that I will never take another drink. Period. It wasn’t fun. I didn’t feel better or happier. It didn’t solve any of my problems – they were all still there and some of them still are. AL never makes anything better.
Protect my sobriety? With every ounce of strength that I have. Someone asks if I want a drink - the answer is simple – I don’t drink alcohol. No one has questioned me about it although there were a couple of comments like – “hmm, that’s odd – you don’t drink?”. I always have the answer that no one can argue with – I’m watching my calories and I’d rather eat them than drink them. Simple as that. As for champagne at my son’s recent wedding – there was a glass of it in my hand and I simply touched my lips to the glass without tipping it to drink and then raised it in a salute. And upon entering the reception hall, I arranged for my special cocktail of soda water, pineapple juice and lemonade to be made for me, ready whenever my glass needed a refill. No one knew whether there was AL in it or not and it was none of their business.
And just one more thing in this epistle that I’ve written – to all of you who are struggling with thoughts of taking that first drink again, please, please, please, don’t back away from MWO. Come here and post. Tell the members what you’re thinking, what you’re going through. That’s what this forum is all about – support. Not judgment, but support and understanding. Some of the Army members will remember Johnny – a member from South Africa. Some years ago the World Cup Soccer Championship was hosted by his country and he had been sober for some time but was soooo tempted to have a couple of beers to celebrate with his fellow countrymen. He came to MWO, posted on the Army thread that he was thinking of drinking and we got him through the night without having a sip. He stayed close to MWO and we stayed up half the night to talk him through the drinking thoughts and to get him over the urge to drink. He made it and it was a great success for all of us. We were so proud of him and most of all, he was so proud of himself. But he didn’t try to do it alone. He recognized that he needed support and he came to the members here, asked for it and got it.
I won’t apologize for going on and on. It’s been a while since I’ve written down my thoughts but I think they are pertinent and if they can help even one person, then that’s the important part.
As for the amount I drank – 2/3 of a 700cc, 40% proof bottle of AL in just over an hour and a half every night. Drank til I passed out. Thankfully that is all behind me. I know I can’t ever have another drink and that is fine with me. It never, ever did me any good. Just harm.

[spiderwoman]

I was asked to drop this post I made in the Army thread earlier today into the toolbox so here goes:

Like a lot of us here I have thoughts that one or two won't hurt, or it'll make a change to have something different to drink (who am I kidding) but I think it anyway.

On most bank holidays my best friend and ex-drinking buddy invites me to dinner just like she did Good Friday. I arrived at 6pm (the time she said to be no later than) and neither she nor her husband could stand unaided. It was embarrassing, they tried to sort out who was cooking at which point I wanted to leave and said so but they were having none of it, they'd invited me and I was bloody well going to be fed!

My friend then decided she needed to sit in the lounge for a few minutes, missed the chair by a mile and narrowly avoided falling through a glass coffee table. She lay on that floor (wouldn't be helped up) for a good hour and a half, when she crawled into the chair and demanded more vino now! That was me before I gave up

I eventually got away from there at 10pm.

A replay of how I used to be is enough to keep me off the stuff forever!

I live in fear of the day I get the call to say my friend has really hurt herself, she's had a series of injuries already but she shrugs them off, just like I used to but seeing how I usedo be is bloody scary. So for the foreseeable I'll avoid the stuff with no problems, I don't even care about telling people why I won't just have one. because there is no way I want to risk going back to the hell of lying every day, wondering where the next £1 is coming from and whether I'll be able to afford enough wine for the rest of the week.

And I thought I would try and add a photo of my handiwork drunk!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

You will need to click on the link but its not a pretty sight! (Note the lies in the conversation, "slipped on ice" was true, I was also very, very drunk!)

[Rusty]

Spidey,
Thank you for your excellent post! It was so powerful for me because I was sooo lucky not to have crashed through my
Glass dining room table or living room coffee tables. I had a friend like yours....but I cut her off altogether because every event involved drinking and while criticizing the intake of
AL the drunken bar flies consuming, my friend would get brazenly
Drunk herself...every single time.

I tried to open the FB link, but it said the link was either expired or I didn't have permission to view it. could you possibly attach a picture of it in a p.m.? You add so much value to the site, Spidey, thank you for being here and sharing your story! I admire you in so many levels. Love, Rusty