Newbies Nest

[Prairie Fairy]

Newbies Nest

Ok - anger.

That seems to be a huge part of this beast for so many of us when you read the posts.

Anger at:
- starting drinking in the first place
- taking that damn drink after 36 days of abs
- wanting to mod but failing
- as a trigger
- at the world when we've been drinking
- at ourselves - self loathing at it's finest
- at the beast

I've been doing a lot of thinking. Anger may help me surf some urges, fight my way through some witching hours - but it can't be the fuel. Because at day 36 when someone offers me a bloody Mary - and I am relaxed - that anger isn't going to sustain my quit. It didn't.

Hope has to be the true fuel. It has to be a vision in my head of a world where drinking isn't part of my life. What does that look like? How does that feel? What are the best parts of that world?

Byrdie, Lavande, or any of the long time Abbers - can you comment on the best parts of a life spent - long term - without AL? Can you help paint a picture so we know what we are working for?

[FlyAway]

Newbies Nest

Prairie Fairy have you read Jason Vale's book Kick the Drink Easily? I love how he shows you that alcohol and heroin or alcohol and crack are no different, yet by society's teachings we believe they are. Alcohol is as much of a drug and a poison to our bodies as crack or heroin. Your body works desperately to process the alcohol toxin and keep your heart beating and keep your lungs breathing and keeping up with all of your body's functions while you continue to pour more booze into it. Finally, when it's getting to the point where it can't keep up with keeping you alive and trying to process the poison you're pouring into it, your body will shut down by causing you to black out in a last ditch attempt to make you stop drinking so that it can do it's job.

The idea of moderating is a myth. Can you imagine a crackhead saying, "I'm going to quit crack for 30 days, then I should be able to handle lighting up a few times on the weekends only."? Or, "I only smoke crack once or twice a day and only after 5pm, so I don't really have a drug problem."? Would you believe it if someone told he didn't have a heroin problem because he only used it after 5pm on Fridays and Saturdays? Of course not, that's crazy. And you would certainly never expect someone who used heroin or crack 2 or 3 times a week to continue using that infrequently, right? Why is alcohol different? It is mind altering and addictive. It's only because of the dogma we've been bombarded with since childhood about how alcohol makes you an adult, makes you cool, everyone does it, etc. that we think differently.

[Prairie Fairy]

Newbies Nest

Hi FlyAway, I started his book but didn't finish it - going to have to pick it up again.

I guess my bigger question is back to the visualization of what the positives in a sober world look like. If I can imagine them - see them - then I have a positive goal I am swimming towards.

I am finding I need those things. Maybe this is the wrong place to ask the question though - maybe it should be it's own thread.

[mimi911]

Newbies Nest

This is day one and I am already struggling. i really want to go in and get a beer. The meds are no help at all right now.

i will let you know tomorrow if I actually make it through this night. Ugh

[DesertLady]

Newbies Nest

Day 6 AF! Extremely tired - slept til almost 1pm today, and so ready to go back to bed again now. Wonder how much is due to the remains of this head-cold, and how much is detoxing? Hope I have just a little more energy tomorrow!
Evenings are weird now - I wrote a couple of emails after 8pm - THAT hasn't happened in a long time. And I feel as though I'm casting about for things to do to keep me occupied. Hubby home tomorrow, so that brings more changes. He's most impressed with me though, which is pretty nice, so I know he'll help however he can.
Just wanted to stay committed to writing SOMETHING every day for now. Will chat more and reply to comments tomorrow.
Night All!

[Prairie Fairy]

Newbies Nest

COME on Mimi - you can do this! Make a cup of herbal tea - I have this stuff with passionflower, chamomile and hops in it - and it chills you out like a wine. I'll put on another cup and stay up with you if you like. Do you have the l-glut? Some treatment centers use it in much higher doses than MWO - and according to what I can find - in a massive craving - a dose of 7,500 - which a lot of body builders take - can fight it down. Not saying you want to do that all the time - but it's an option. Especially with the Kudzu. Anyway - I am up and here- hang on.

[Over It!]

Newbies Nest

Wicked Mom, I can so relate to you. I love my daughters more than anything, they are gown up ladies now nearly 30 years old. But they have told me that they mostly remember me being drunk and doing housework and being generally noisy until 2, 3 or even 4 o'clock in the morning sometimes. I wish that I had been the sort of Mum that I always wanted to be, for them and for me. Problem is, we cant change the past but we can improve our futures and I am rebuilding my relationship with them. Hope it works.

So fed up of feeling ashamed of the past.

Much love.

[Lavande]

Newbies Nest

Good morning Nesters,

Mix of clouds & sun over my portion of the nest & a bit chilly, oh well!

Over It, congrats to you! Looks like you are well on your way to a better life

DesertLady, just keep taking good care of yourself. I am also sporting a cold/allergy symptoms & feeling very tired right now ~ tis the season.

PF, how do you picture your future? What do you want? You can remake yourself any way you like

Wishing everyone a wonderful AF Monday!
Lav

[lolab]

Newbies Nest

Andrew – glad you’re back….

and Prairie, I'm giving thought to your other post. It's nice to see you again.

Nursie, I really hope that you can get some help for your brother -that's awesome…

azurmyst – I did see you in the nest awhile back – welcome home!....

mimi- you can’t be surprised when those thoughts hit…you HAVE to be proactive and have a plan in place for when they do. It just doesn’t work to leave it to chance and hope….sujo – back on the horse – keep remembering that you CAN’T mod…

Welcome grade 1/2 and sypsifurn….desertlady - just like that, now we know YOU, too. That’s all it is…it “seems” like we know each other – but once you jump in and introduce yourself, we know you too! You have to be really well prepared (which it sounds like you are) for those feelings when they come. KNOW that it’s going to be very tough at first – chatting with your DH without a glass in your hand – but it’s sure do-able. And the more you do it, the more natural it becomes. It won’t happen in a week – but you’ll get there if you’re 100% committed to making it work. We’ve said again and again – if staying sober STAYED as hard as it is in the beginning? None of us would be able to do it….It gets easier and easier and more and more natural. You might have to get up and walk away if he is drinking….or go out for a walk It’s awesome that he knows that you’re quitting and is supporting you…just be sure that he knows that you might be a little bit off the wall for the next few weeks – on and off. :-) But keep reminding him that it gets better.

[DesertLady]

Newbies Nest

Mornin' Y'all!
So, here's my two cents when it comes to anger, and getting to a place where it might be easier to stay quit. And this is all stuff I've been learning about in the last year only - how I wish I'd know this growing up.
So many of us keep hitting our heads on that same wall. We keep trying and trying to do things differently, we swear we won't do them again. We examine our ACTIONS and try to change them. We make new plans and swear we'll stick to them. And then we don't and we beat ourselves up about it all over again. This is where I was at last year, and I was truly at the point - approaching my 40th birthday - where I just couldn't see how I could keep going like this for another 40 years. The despair was quite deep.

But then I learned that I was starting at the wrong point. Our ACTIONS are generally based on our FEELINGS/EMOTIONS - and these come from how we THINK and what we BELIEVE. And this is something most of us are not even aware of, and even if we are, we tend to think that these are things we can't change, that we are stuck being the way we are.

In reality, the way we work as people - and please understand that this is just what I have learned and what has made a difference for me, I'm not trying to say this is cast in stone - is that we grow up acquiring various beliefs and truths. We get these from our parents especially as we grow up, and we also get them from the experiences we have over time. And this goes to root things like "I am not worthy of love", "I am different and not acceptable", "I am not good enough" (a biggie). We absorb these things, often without being aware of them. BUT they are definitely there - and if I'm going around with these things in my head, they are going to make me FEEL a certain way - lonely, sad, unloved, unlovable - and very likely also ANGRY at the unfairness of it all. In my life, my anger was closely related to huge FRUSTRATION and a sense of paralysis - knowing instinctively that I was worth more, but not knowing what to do about it.

So, you FEEL these things, and you ACT accordingly. You behave as you think and feel you are. And the problem with our minds is that every time we do these self-sabotaging, self-hating things, it REINFORCES the original thinking process - our mind sees it as EVIDENCE of that original thought/belief.

That's why, if you start at the level of changing the things you DO, nothing is likely to ever change very much. If, however, you are made aware, and are able to take a step back and start examining your thoughts and beliefs and deciding whether those are actually true or not, you have a much better chance of changing those original thoughts, which will result in different feelings, which will result in different actions - and if that happens often enough, we start to live and be different people.

That's a lot to take in, but let me personalize it: I grew up in a very strict household, with a father who was extremely controlling, who had serious anger issues, and who exacted very high standards from his daughter. So two of the main beliefs I grew up with were "I am not good enough" and therefore "I am not lovable". So, I've spent my life never feeling like anything I did was good enough, feeling that anyone who loved me or was my friend didn't truly actually know me, or how could they still love me? I self-sabotaged soooo many things over the years, because deep down I never truly believed that I could do anything successfully, and then, in my thirties, when the pain of this all became too much, I started to drink to numb the pain and avoid dealing with it altogether.

Oddly, it was because I finally started down the road of becoming more self-aware, and realising that I needed help, that these feelings - and the pain - began to surface. I tried counselling a number of times, I read self-help books endlessly, and I learned a lot. But not until last year, did I learn to step back, look at my thoughts, and ask myself whether "I" believed them. I learned to become "gently curious", to "just notice" thoughts and emotions, and then to examine them when I was able. I became aware of just how awfully and nastily I spoke to myself. My selftalk was so negative and so mean and so hateful - no wonder I didn't feel anyone could love me, I didn't love myself!

And I'll be honest, in the beginning, this process of becoming aware was TERRIFYING. The number of times I backed away because I thought that acknowledging these feelings and letting them come up would completely overwhelm me. But I also knew, that if I shoved them back down again, nothing would ever change. But, over time, I learned to stop speaking so negatively to myself. I started learning to love myself, to give myself the approval that I'd always been seeking from others. My beliefs now are far more along the lines of "Actually, I am good enough, just the way I am" and "Yes, I am lovable - I love me and I can allow others to love me". I'm still on this journey, and I think I always will be. And I have a growing TOOLBOX of things to help me along the way.

But, I was still drinking - in fact, I was even drinking more. And feeling so helpless about it. And then two weeks ago I finally discovered MWO, and learned that alcoholism/alcohol abuse is a DISEASE, with clearly discernable biochemical patterns and changes in neurochemistry etc. So, instead of having to admit defeat and feel that this was the one thing I couldn't change, I now have a whole new TOOLBOX right here, to help me deal with this next big thing. And it's terrifying all over again, and it's going to be it's own journey of changes and acceptances, but I'm defnitely hopeful.

So, rather a long post, and perhaps not in the right thread, but I'm putting it out there, because maybe it will be helpful in some way to someone....

And so my Day 6 begins, with a clearer head at this time of day than I've experienced in a long time...May it be a good one for all of us!

[Doggygirl]

Newbies Nest

On Anger and Hope

Hi Prairie Fairy and Nesters!!

PF I got your message and wanted to write a few thoughts. First off, I like what Flyaway said about the science of alcohol and other drug effects. I havent read the Vale book, but her summary of what alcohol does to our brains is consistent with what I am learning in school in my Psychopharmacology class. What I take away from that is absolute amazement at the miracle of our bodies. Our bodies physically keep fighting for us even when we emotionally give up. I am so grateful to have a body that fights for me like that!!!! And grateful I didn't keep going untl it finally couldn't keep up with my abuse any more.

PF I like what you said about hope being a better fuel than anger. I hadn't really thought about it that way until I saw what you said, but that is absolutely true for me. Hope is my fuel. Anger is something I have developed tools to avoid. I don't like feeling angry. I like feeling peaceful and optimistic inside. I was nothing but a walking around angry mess at the end of my drinking years. All of that anger FUELED MY DRINKING. The world just kept pissing me off and giving me excuse after excuse to get drunk. How sick and twisted is that???? But that was my alkie brain's way of keeping the fixes coming. Anger and disappointment that everyone didn't do things the way I thought they should.

For me, anger and worry are close cousins. I came to realize that worry is anger about future events. Stuff that hasn't happened yet. But I'm SURE it's going to happen, and I've already got a strong emotion going about.....fiction. So tool #1 is to STAY IN THE PRESENT. There is no point in getting upset about my fictionalized version of future events.

One of my favorite tools to deal with anger/frustration/negative feelings about something is to say the serenity prayer, and use those words to evaluate what's going on.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
Am I banging my head against the wall over something I WANT to change, but it's outside of my control? Like my husband? My family? My teachers? Friends? Strangers doing something I don't like while sharing the road with them? (LOL - anger at others while I'm driving is a KEY SIGN for me that I need to meditate and do a mental shift!) I cannot control other people places and things. I can only control me.

The courage to change the things I can

Sometimes it's easier to bang my head against the wall wishing others would change than to have the COURAGE to change what IS within my control. As an example, it seemed easier to focus on something my husband "wasn't doing right" as a source of anger, and an excuse to drink.

And the wisdom to know the difference

I was trying to change something I cannot (him) and NOT taking responsibility for what I CAN change (me, and whether or not I pick up the first drink) This was really my LIFE before I stopped drinking. Everything was everyone else's fault. If I could only make them do things my way, then I would feel good inside and wouldn't have to drink all the time. Well, I discovered that doesn't work. Not in my life.

These days I try to examine angry feelings and get to the bottom of it. What am I responsible for? What is within my control? What is outside of my control that I need to just accept and move on?

Cleaning up the wreckage goes right to this point. We can express to others our regrets for what we did to hurt them with our drinking. That is all we can do. We cannot force people to forgive us, etc. The VERY BEST ammend I can make to my loved ones is to just keep my mouth shut, stay sober, and do the next right thing. Become a person they can trust and respect. That doesn't take words. It just takes time and consistency - one day at a time.

The most important person I needed to forgive was me. Living in the present (and not the past) helps with that too. TODAY I have the opportunity to make the best possible choices I can make, and be the best "me" I can be. That is what is within my control. Just to do my best TODAY. I can't change yesterday, and I can't predict or control the future.

HOPE for myself is the belief and the faith that if I keep making the best choices I can make (knowing I will make some honest mistakes) ONE DAY AT A TIME that things will get better. I have faith that whatever lies in front of me in this life will be good - even when bad things happen (that are out of my control!).

HOPE in sharing with others - I am writing this today so I can hopefully offer some HOPE to PF and any other nesters that need some! Hope that your journey to freedom and sobriety can be filled with happiness too. Hope that this early phase when it's REALLY HARD to not pick up a drink will pass. Hope that you will have the FREEDOM to make different choices for your life, and live life to the fullest.

I love being involved in the recovery community. Here at MWO. At AA. In volunteer work. I get to see the miracles every day that are happening in people's lives. Yes, I also see the struggles. The relapses. The deaths. Addiction is deadly. I can't control that. What I CAN do is choose to share with others a store that for today at least, is one of happiness and success. There were a lot of bumps in the road and there still are. But they are good bumps that I learn from and grow from. It took me a long time to see that.

Well, this is a novel!!! I do not know how to make a long story short LOL. I hope you find what I have found and what so many others here have found in recovery. It is there for the taking. It's worth working for. Struggling for. Fighting for.

Peace of mind. Tools for living. No regrets. Ahhhhhhhhh.

If I can do it, so can you.

One thing is for sure. Today, no alcohol will cross these lips.

DG

[Byrdlady]

Newbies Nest

Wow DesertLady, that was a great post...it lead me on a journey with you. Your story could be mine (except add 10 years). The anger, and feelings of inadequacey and untimately, self-destruction, were alive and well over here. Thank you for taking the time to post that..I am going to listen to the way I talk to myself...and I am going to be kinder to me. You have an awful lot of insight for 6 days! I can't wait to see what's coming up at the 30 Day mark! I'm getting your hat ready!
Prarie, yours is a great question, what is the payoff for all this hard work of not drinking? What's the use? Besides the obvious there is one I want to lay out there. It's a sense of CALM. BALANCE. SERENITY. PEACE. Now, mind you, I'm as mainstream as it comes on mainstreet. I'm the June Cleaver of America. I don't read books (I wish I did) or even watch a lot of nature shows, and the only time I meditate is in a store trying to decide which purse to buy....so I'm not an expert at inner peace or anything...but quitting drinking and all the chaos that surrounds having enough, covering my lies, disposing of the empties, trying not to act drunk...all that disruption is gone...It is a very peaceful place to be, and by all stretches, the brass ring at the end of the ride. That's one of the biggest payoffs for me....and getting my memory back. I feel sharper now than I have in 25 years. I remember most everything...I pay attention to detail instead of just glossing over it...not caring. My skin is better, too...I look less like ashes, and more ....glowy? And finally, I can EAT!!! When I was drinking almost 2 bottles of wine a day, I couldn't afford the calories of eating much....Now I pretty much eat what I want to, and my weight is in check. THAT is worth the price of admission alone! I'm sure there will be more to add to my list as my sober time is increased...thank you for asking that question, it was good to take stock of where I am in my journey. MindPeace to all, Byrdie

[DesertLady]

Newbies Nest

Ah, DG - so good to read this too, Thanks for posting!! Worry and anxiety have always been huge for me - so it was good to realise that my brain chemistry made them worse, and that by supplementing up that will help reduce anxiety and depression, as much as not drinking will.

Lola & Lavande - and everyone else who's wished me well and welcomed me - THANK-YOU! I've just reread the past few days, and "seen" so much that in my early "fogginess" I missed! It's still early in Day 6, but my head is feeling wonderfully clear right now, and I feel focused and ready to take on the next couple of days!

[sypisfurn]

Newbies Nest

Hi again everyone...

So I left the office just now and walked past a couple of bars.
Incase some of you aren't sure why I picked that route, well basically my office is located near a number of drinking holes so I've definitely got to walk past them to get to the subway to go home.

As you all are / should be familiar, the smell of beer beckoned to me, especially after I had a long day at work. It wasn't a bad day at work nor did I get scolded by my boss, I was just so busy I felt pooped by the end of the day and while most people would say "Whew lets go for a beer to chill..." I hastily walked past those bars, knowing that if I slowed down, I may just end up in one of them, even if it's just for one beer alone.

Well, that took a bit of will power to reject the senses. My eyes saw the bars, my ears heard the clinging of glasses, my nose smelt the beer. The two other senses, touch and taste weren't engaged though because I didn't pick up a glass or taste the drink.

Whew. Talk about stress huh! :P

[Prairie Fairy]

Newbies Nest

Good for you Sypisfurn - Lolab saved me from myself outside my wine shop on my longest quit during that hard first week. It takes courage to walk past or drive away when the alien wants to win and is calling you back. So - great job!