Newbies Nest

[Byrdlady]

Newbies Nest

Thanks, Star we cross posted and said the same thing!!!! AMAZING!!! At least there are 2 of us that BELIEVE IT!!! Every time I fell, I fell harder than the time before. I drank out of panic or something....it IS hard to explain. It sure DOES scare the hell out of me! I'm so glad you're here!!! This site does give us perspective ....it helps us see the future, the present and the past. I finally figured out what causes this crap! It's the ALCOHOL! :truce: B

[Patrick]

Newbies Nest

`For those who enjoyed this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw[/video]]Bob Newhart-Stop It - YouTube :H

you might also enjoy this if you smoke as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO1nCuVQIeg[/video]]Introducing Tobacco To Civilization - YouTube :H

[Fin]

Newbies Nest

Wisdom

Thanks for all the wisdom. The patterns shared are all the same when it comes to caving with the net result being totally negative 100% of the time. My wish is that I can internalize all this imparted wisdom and draw from it in times of weakness. Regardless, this is all amo for fighting off the beast when it comes a'knocking so thanks for sharing.

[Lavande]

Newbies Nest

AMEN Byrdie!!!!!!!
Don't pick up that first drink.......because we know that there are many more to follow!

Dropped my oldest grandson at preschool, came back & put the younger one in for a nap. PEACE!!!!!!!:H

This is one busy nest today - awesome

[RunningCourage]

Newbies Nest

Starfish1;1398611 wrote: WHAT IS IT that makes that slip become enduring? Why do people not just start again with sobriety the next day? Does something click in the brain?
Catbuddy

Cat- First of all, I want to commend you for being such a great sister and for realizing the desperation in your sister's eyes. I feel for her and I hope she finds her way out. Also for being such a great mom yourself and thinking of your son's future.

Honestly, I have been working on a response to your question, but it got out of hand. I actually started writing my autobiography (of sorts) in an attempt to help you understand what happened to me, but as I was coming up on page 3, I realized I need to post that somewhere else. So I will try my best to just answer the one question - What makes that slip enduring?

I would give anything if I knew the real answer. I think someone said it the other day. It is called addiction and I am powerless over it. Cat, whether it is some kind of physical or chemical or emotional imbalance- I don't know. Believe me, I have tried to figure it out, but I totally agree with K9 and Fin. Once you take (or I took) that first drink even after 3 years of sobriety, I lost all power. Something clicked in my brain alright. It switched itself onto "autopilot" as Fin said and I became robotic. It didn't happen all at once. I think it took a couple months for me to go back into full mode, but I believe I was doomed after that first drink. Just like K9 and Fin said, you have no control whatsoever of yourself and you just HAVE to finish the beers or drinks or whatever. It's crazy. And as much as your sane mind wants to stop- it just can't. I would be driving to the store to get more beer and crying to myself to please stop- just don't do it. It's a demon- I agree- and Cat, it should scare the BeJeesus out of you and out of all of us. It sure does me!

I may post my lovely "autobiography" in the "My Story" section. It explains a lot more about how/why I quit for 3 years, why I think I started again and how I feel I am doing better now. I know one thing for sure is that I can't say enough about the power of this site and the help I get from all of you. Cat, do you think your sister would like to join us?

:h:h Star

Great question Cat -

Great responses Star, Fin, K9, Byrdie -

I also wonder whether, for SOME of us, we have built such a bad habit with AL over many, many years that our bodies and our minds simply do not know another way to drink. (We can of course intellectualize the concept of 'safe drinking', but our bodies and minds are complex buggers, and I wonder whether it takes them just a tad longer to even get to grips with understanding 'safe drinking' let alone practice it.)

Association breeds habit breeds addiction breeds bad stuff. So whenever those, for whom this is the case, have a drink...it's not A drink because their bodies and minds don't know what A drink is. Nope, it's A bottle, or A case, or A keg, or A distillery (sorry, getting silly there).

For others there are may be a thousand different reasons why, after years of sobriety, they have a drink, flick a switch and that's them off the wagon for forever and a day. Like it flicks some chemical switch in the body or the brain ... But for some, perhaps their prior association/relationship with AL is such that they simply HAVE to drink more and more and more... whether it's a biological/chemical reaction or otherwise.

Sorry, not really answering your question there Cat (well, I can't cos it's the same question i'm interested in also!), just wanted to post that thought.

RC

[RunningCourage]

Newbies Nest

Lavande;1398631 wrote: AMEN Byrdie!!!!!!!
Don't pick up that first drink.......because we know that there are many more to follow!

Dropped my oldest grandson at preschool, came back & put the younger one in for a nap. PEACE!!!!!!!:H

This is one busy nest today - awesome

You dropped him? Isn't that, like, illegal? Can't you cause grievous bodily harm by doing that?

[Catbuddy]

Newbies Nest

Why are slips enduring?

Hi everyone,

Wow, and thank you for the responses. So much to learn from them.

It seems (1) that for some people, slips are just that and for others they are turns back down the road to AL, and (2) loss of choice occurs, and behavior is driven by something other than your thoughts. Star, I am so moved and sorry that you ever cried as you drove to get AL. That is horrible! So I don't know if I would experience a slip or a devasting fall. Mmmm. Scary.

I think every day about how to bring my sister here. She is hugely defensive about her AL consumption. She is also very secretive (dates way before AL abuse) and regularly lies about behavior she is ashamed of. We come from a family that is massively judgemental, beginning with my parents. So, she knows I know she drinks; I have never challenged her decision to end sobriety (given that I was drinking). And she tells me that at some point she will be ready to give it up again, just not now. I'm not going to debate that with her. She has five years; I have three weeks. I would not presume to say I know what she is going through. But I've been thinking about buying the starter pack for her, writing a short letter that just says, "this is helping me; wanted to share in case you want to try."

Thoughts?

Love you guys,
Cat

[Alcoholic]

Newbies Nest

Busy today at work, but couldn't help to come peek in here.

Welcome all newcomers!!!

I love this site! I love reading the opinions of different people in different threads. Sometimes there are differences in opinions and discussions can get somewhat heated. But overall, the conversations remain civil and very intelligent.

I drank for 20 years. Now I have wine and beers in refrigerator (we entertain and my husband drinks), but I don't touch them. I don't simply because I found in here MWO what works for ME after reading all these different opinions. Everyone is different. Their life experiences, body chemistries, family history (genetic make up) psychological/personality-- all different. So what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Learning from other's trials and errors and knowing yourself is very important.

Try different things and if it doesn't work, try another way. This site probably saved my life.

[kuya]

Newbies Nest

The reason for slips becoming extended periods, and often increased amounts of alcohol are due to the way addictive substances work on the brain.

When you drink it causes endorphin release via the GABA system. When you quit your brain makes more receptors in an attempt to get more pleasure. As soon as you drink you trigger endorphins but less than before so the brain needs more alcohol for the same pleasure.

There is nothing magical about it, alcohol is just a chemical which causes a chemical reaction in the brain. Understanding it allows you to make informed choices.

This is also why every quit is slightly harder and why it takes longer to climb back on the wagon. It is referred to as 'kindling'.

So STAY quit, it only gets harder each time

[Lavande]

Newbies Nest

No worries RC,
Kids generally bounce when you drop them, no injuries :H :H

Cat, relationships between sisters is something I know nothing about because I was blessed with 3 brothers. My brothers couldn't care less about what I have to say or share. Sisters ate generally closer, right? If you think your sister would not be offended then there's no harm in trying to share what is working for you IMHO

[Lavande]

Newbies Nest

Agreed kuya

[Starfish1]

Newbies Nest

Cat,
I think introducing your sister to the MWO program by giving her a little information and a ?starter pack? would be a very caring and loving thing to do.
I think many of us (certainly me) are very defensive, secretive, ashamed and dishonest about our drinking behavior. I mean it ain?t exactly something to be proud of.
One thing to consider, Cat, is that your sister may be trying to hide her problem from YOU, in order to keep you from worrying about her. I have 3 sisters, none of whom (to my knowledge) have the problem I do with AL. As far as I know, they do not know the extent of my problem either. We live away from one another, see each other only a few times a year and I try (tried) to hide my drinking from them so they would not worry about me. We grew up in an alcoholic home and suffered greatly throughout our childhood. I surely don?t want to cause them any more pain than what we have already endured.
I would have been mortified if anyone (even my sisters) had ever approached me with a ?holier than thou? attitude about my drinking, but doing it in a way that you are suggesting- showing concern, putting yourself ?in the game with her? so to speak and giving her some tangible help may be exactly what she needs (and secretly wants). You of course know her better than anyone here, but from what I have read, it seems you two may have a good and caring relationship. I will tell you that one of the factors that helped in my quit in 2005 was a show of concern from someone that I had confided in and the hope of a new beginning. Cat, I have said it before, but I think accountability to someone who believes in you and in what you are attempting to accomplish is a huge factor in fighting the battle. I know for a fact that I would NOT have 22 ? AF days under my pair of Thanx Spanx, if it weren?t for this nest. I would have caved again on day 3 or 4.

Good Luck, Cat!
:h Star

[Byrdlady]

Newbies Nest

Yes, Kuya, I was going to mention the Gaba thing and endorfins....:yeahright: (as opposed to outdoorfins?) I don't know the science behind it all, but I sure have lived it. Nice to know that there's some kind of reasoning behind it! Thank you for that explanation!!

Patrick, you don't say much, but when you do!!! It ROCKS! Thank you for those hilarious links!!! Great stuff!! B

[Fin]

Newbies Nest

Here's interesting post regarding dairy and health: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O-ehIkwGME&feature=share[/video]]Dairy: 6 Reasons You Should Avoid It at all Costs - YouTube

What jumped out to me was that safe AL consumption is defined by dietary experts as 3 drinks per week, different days/nights. At that rate, why even bother? At my worst, I was at 10X that amount. Good grief.

[Catbuddy]

Newbies Nest

Fin;1398648 wrote: Here's another interesting post regarding dairy and health: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O-ehIkwGME&feature=share[/video]]Dairy: 6 Reasons You Should Avoid It at all Costs - YouTube

What jumped out to me was that safe AL consumption is defined by dietary experts as 3 drinks per week. At that rate, why even bother? I was at 10X that amount. Good grief.

Absofrinkinlutely. I was, too. 3 drinks a week would feel like torture from where I sit now. I would get the taste, and be driven mad by desire. I'd rather save that for other settings.

Cat