Newbies Nest

[kuya]

Newbies Nest

Slay, my dear, take comfort in the knowledge that ALL relationships are a trade of some sort. I don't mean that in a negative way, only that the most healthy relationships involve a mutual weighing of benefits.

Now the unhealthy relationships are the ones you and I tend to form. They are not really the fault of that other person but due to our own lack of self worth. We allow ourselves to be used in a way that healthy people would not. This man saw this in you and chose you over another person, and may have done so subconsciously.

I went to a counsellor for a short period of time about four years ago to start to deal with my drinking. My ex and I were reaching the point of no return and in one session she said 'my dear, he is a narcissist'. And I asked WHY I would choose such a person and she said ' you have described your mother, what word would sum her up?' And at that moment I realised that I had ALWAYS chosen narcissists. Even though I loathed my mother, ( she is the MOST narcassistic person I have ever met ) and, even though I would claim that all my relationships were completely different personalities ...... They were in fact ALL narcissists.

She explained that, subconsciously, we are drawn to the familiar regardless of whether we dislike that trait on an intellectual level.

This is why we must get sober and grow up before we start dating again.

This is also why battered women choose men that batter them, it is NOT conscious, it is conditioning

[Lavande]

Newbies Nest

Well Kuya, that explains why I married the guy I did!!!!
I wanted him to be completely different from my father but it turned out he's a control freak too BTW - he walked out on me 2 1/2 years ago after 37 years of marriage. I was absolutely stunned after all I had gone through with him..........

Dottie, almost free, Slay & everyone else facing rough times right now please know that you are not alone. We all turn into pretty good listeners here & support one another. I never even considered picking up a drink after he left primarily because I had incredible support from my MWO friends
I don't drink anymore, no matter what.

Wishing everyone a safe night in the Nest!
Lav

[RunningCourage]

Newbies Nest

almost free;1424568 wrote: Hi Slay,

Well, third time, now, I composed my story, and just deleted it again. I'm so paranoid, I feel I will regret putting out so much personal business. Also, that others will be saying, 'oh boo hoo, like you are the only one with a problem'! I also feel like it violates my family's privacy, even though we are relatively anonymous here.

My last post started: To hell with it, I WILL spill my guts.....wrote paragraph after paragraph, and then deleted it again. God, I'm hopeless......I think I will just settle for a good cry for now......

It hurts like hell when your heart is broken, whether it's a family member, a spouse or a boyfriend or girlfriend. It hurts when those you love are suffering and there is nothing you can do......

Well, at least all this posting has passed a lot of time we might have spent thinking about some kind of relief or escape.......

Isn't there some famous line about the heart having a mind of its own? No one is able to rule it?

Hey Almost... So for my tuppence worth. I think it is a very positive thing to be able to openly face up to issues that affect, or have affected, your life. HOW MUCH you do that on the public boards is up to you... the fact that you have deleted your posts, I think, means that for now you're not ready to do that on a public forum. That's totally cool. In fact you may never want to share everything. That's cool too.

But if you can, do share things with another privately. Being able to have a good listener to share your thoughts and stories and history with can help you process your own thoughts with a little more clarity. You will have an objective listener who can, perhaps, see and understand things differently from a more distant point of view.

I have my Stella Chook thread - I understand what I'm speaking about if I'm being a bit vague writing about "things in my past" on the thread. I don't want, or am not ready, to share publicly many things. BUT, I am extremely fortunate in finding one or two people here who I can, and do, divulge aspects of my history with. Who I can PM or email and say "Ummm.... what the feck does this mean?" or "Can you make head or tail of what this is about." I have found this invaluable.

[RunningCourage]

Newbies Nest

Morning nesters.

Monday marnin. I won't lie to you. I'll be glad when I've finished work, and my uni exam (I have one on Friday), for Christmas. Today is the Christmas party... and I'm just a bit fretful. Everyone else is going "Yay, let me hair doon" and I'm feeling like i'm battening down the hatches, readying for battle.

The upside is that I told my folks this weekend that I wanted to be AF for Christmas and after Christmas. My mum kept saying "I really respect you for what you're doing" ... and they know that I might end up driving there tonight (50miles away) just so I have a get out plan for the party. Considering the price of diesel/petrol, it's one expensive get-out plan. But needs must if needs be.

Kuya - liked your response to Slay... I've actually copied it as I want to reply to it on my Stella Thread when I get a chance. Gotta run off sharpish now tho.

Have a grand monday peeps.
RC

[Lasha]

Newbies Nest

Now is the time

Hi all,

I've decided enough is enough after being sick again with the sweats and trembles. I've tapered back to a bottle of wine and 4 ciders a day but cant stick to it at weekends and I've just got to stop or I will kill myself or get really ill.

My wife is worried and hates seeing me drink, all my mates seem to have packed it in as they get older. we're all around 50 and even my best mate has stopped. He must have had a scare as he was a far bigger drinker than me (or am I fooling myself) and he always said he wouldn't live beyond 50 and didn't care.

I guess we've all said that but when you get to 50 you change your mind.

First day yesterday and didn't sleep all night, just kept thinking "get through this night", when does it get better?

NF-20 months
AF-1 day

I've cancelled christmas, booze that is as I had 4 parties to go to but tough. My wife would rather not go than see me drink then watch me look for some more the next day.

[kuya]

Newbies Nest

Hi Lasha, and welcome to MWO.

Settle in and get started on your new life. Tis good that your drinking buddy has quit too.....makes you realise that it ain't just you with a problem with alcohol.

Right ........ The bad news ..... The first week is hard but then it gets easier. Your sleeping will be a bit of a mess but remember that 3 hours sober is worth eight hours of coma. You will feel a bit out of body for a few days, not so much irritable as distant.

These first days you are detoxing and the brain will be wanting to drink to stop the feeling. DON'T PANIC ...... We all did it or are doing it and it is fine ..... You are just healing.

Check out the toolbox for tips and ideas and MAKE A PLAN, nothing is achieved by hoping.

And lastly read, read, read, then post often and check in as often as you can. In no time you will feel like a different man.

[kuya]

Newbies Nest

Hey LAV ..... That realization of it being MY choices turned my life around. I was no longer the victim of bad men but an active, if unwitting player. I have been able to forgive perceived transgressions and move on.

This addiction ( and still the smoking ) are the last remnants of the damage wrought by my mother's dysfunction. It stops here

[Lasha]

Newbies Nest

Hi Kuya,

Thanks for the help, you're right on day 2 I am now thinking am I mad and I can't do this. It's probably been 30 years without a daily drink and I've got to get used to it, the alternative is too horrible. Got to go through it.

What time is it in NZ? about 11:00 p.m. is it?

Been to Perth for a couple of months and would have loved to go to NZ but not enough time.:welcome::thanks:

[kuya]

Newbies Nest

It is 12.30, really should go to bed :H

Right now Lasha it feels impossible and you are bargaining with yourself and saying, next week, after Xmas, not today. This is normal, but there is no tomorrow.

Let me tell you if you get sober now you will have the BIGGEST boost in self confidence for the New Year. You will feel magnificent ...... Stick to it mate, you will NEVER regret it

[lolab]

Newbies Nest

I've read a little and I'm so sorry that so many are going through tough times right now...I wish I had some words of wisdom - but it's before 8 AM and that rarely happens...;-)

I will check back in later today though. I"m preparing for guests today for the week, so won't have alot of time.

lasha, Push through these first few days - just take it 15 minutes at a time if you have to. AFter a few days, the veil is lifted and you start to see things in a new light. And you start to think that it might be possible...:l

[lolab]

Newbies Nest

RC - I'll be thinking of you today with that party....Just think about me right there beside you - not drinking either...because I'll be there in spirit.

[nurdl]

Newbies Nest

Hi Lasha! Keep reading and posting. We're here and we know what you're going through. Really. Every minute sober is a minute of your new life. You're really going to like it but it's not going to be easy getting there. We're here to help.
Drink water, and loads of it!

RC - I'm right beside Lolab, and next to me is Kuya and Mick and Lav and Byrdie and Nora and Dottie and Allan and Porquoi and Patrick and MamaBear...
We're all right beside you.
~nurdl

[Lavande]

Newbies Nest

Good morning Nesters,

Hello & welcome Lasha!
50 is a good time to change most everything in your life. We are older, a bit wiser & it's high time we stop beating ourselves up
Read the MWO book, make a good plan & hold on tight. The road can be a bit bumpy but you can do anything you really want to do!

Kuya, my plan is to enjoy the people in my life who truly love me just the way I am. I am sick to death tired of trying to please unhappy people who will never be happy.

OK, off to get some work done. RC, look over your shoulder because there is a girl named Stella following you around today. If you drink she drinks & that's not something we want to see

Wishing everyone a great AF Day!
Lav

[Byrdlady]

Newbies Nest

RC, nobody wants a MAD chicken chasing after him!!!! Bahahaha, can you imagine?? Alfred HitchCOCK would have a field day with Stella chasing you with a cheesy plastic cup of wine in your hand!!! All of our avatars will be on that table next to those cheesy cups, so don't even try it!!!

Almost, Dottie, and Slay....I say, if 'getting it out' helps, then get it out. You know as much as I carry on here, if someone doesn't want to read what I've written they can move on....same with you....but writing it is important. Remember, you can delete them later if you feel like it. In all of our cases, there's a lot more to drinking than drinking. There are all kinds of ugly thangs down there to be sorted....but once they are...the space in your head is much better organized. At least that's what I found.

Lasha, I was 50 when I finally came to life. What Kuya said is 'word'.....those first 3 days are tough...visit the Tool Box (link is in my signature line below) there are 100's of tips and coping skills there to help you. Keep your belly full...I mean FULL and stay hydrated! Surround yourself with stuff you love to do and eat! You can eat anything in this world you want right now! Distraction, distraction, distraction!!! Change your routine! Do whatever it takes to get thru this day!!! We are so glad you're here, and remember, we all started on Day 1. We will be right by your side!

Well done, everyone!! Happy AF Monday! Byrdie

[Slaythefear]

Newbies Nest

kuya;1424584 wrote: Slay, my dear, take comfort in the knowledge that ALL relationships are a trade of some sort. I don't mean that in a negative way, only that the most healthy relationships involve a mutual weighing of benefits.

Now the unhealthy relationships are the ones you and I tend to form. They are not really the fault of that other person but due to our own lack of self worth. We allow ourselves to be used in a way that healthy people would not. This man saw this in you and chose you over another person, and may have done so subconsciously.

I went to a counsellor for a short period of time about four years ago to start to deal with my drinking. My ex and I were reaching the point of no return and in one session she said 'my dear, he is a narcissist'. And I asked WHY I would choose such a person and she said ' you have described your mother, what word would sum her up?' And at that moment I realised that I had ALWAYS chosen narcissists. Even though I loathed my mother, ( she is the MOST narcassistic person I have ever met ) and, even though I would claim that all my relationships were completely different personalities ...... They were in fact ALL narcissists.

She explained that, subconsciously, we are drawn to the familiar regardless of whether we dislike that trait on an intellectual level.

This is why we must get sober and grow up before we start dating again.

This is also why battered women choose men that batter them, it is NOT conscious, it is conditioning

Morning Kuya! TY for the reply and as it is a wise reply in general, but in this case, it isn't quite on the mark. One of my biggest problems is my want to 'save' the underdog, the victim, the downtrodden individual. (Don't worry, I'm learning REAL FAST now.) This man played against that vulnerability in me. Now, yes, it is my fault I let him play that vulnerability, but this was a conscious calculated play on his part. I've now found all kinds of evidence of this deceit. As far as men go, at that time I was not at all wallowing in low self esteem. Quite the opposite. I had several marriage proposals, men breaking their necks to get close to me and I was a stubborn mule. I had decided I wanted nothing to do with another marriage or close relationship in that capacity. When you finally break free from an abusive relationship, YOU don't want any more of that in your life. I LOVED my freedom after such intense bondage of several kinds. I believe in some ways he brought out the mother in me with his stories of past misery. I think I felt this poor man has never really been loved and given the chance he deserves. (Yes, I know. I have been taking a good look at all of this.) Get ready with your puke bag, KUYA, I believe I thought let me show him what real love is. I can save him. Love can do that. He has such boyish charm and an outwardly calm nature, he presents himself as someone who is in need of love and care and yet intelligent and motivated. Oh those facades can be quite coy. I was always the kid on the playground sticking up for the kid being bullied...you know that type of person. So, I'm sure this guy spotted that in me right away and knew exactly how to exploit it being very street wise. He was clean when I met him, but after the marriage went back to his drug habits. So, now I'm dealing with a drug addict that cares about nothing but his addictions, what he can get from me and his obsession to make a name for himself. His father was famous where he came from and he became a junkie loser leaving debt everywhere...constant failure. I've been learning more and more about him as time goes on. All those promises made in the beginning are long gone and now I have a man who bursts out into little boy violent temper tantrums, treats me like I'm his slave and should be grateful to have this 'wannabe famous person' because his dad was famous. OH PLEASE!!!!! Up until this last weekend, I was still harboring some kind of ideas that it might be me. But I am under no illusions now after having made every change in the book to clear that doubt out of my mind. In regards to the self esteem issue, it was becoming one now. You know how abusers like to keep you low so they can control you and get what they want. The clouds are clearing away, and my head is clear. I'm seeing this for exactly what it is. Am I still hurt? Yes! Loss of someone is always hard at first. Do I now feel like I need to get rid of him and not allow him anymore chances? YEPPERS! Finally, my mind is springing free from his trap.

As far as forgiving and moving on, of course...but that is for me, not what he has done. It is fraud and a crime in the true sense of it. He has siphoned off plenty of money for his business ventures, and when you want to bring someone into this country on a green card, you have to sponsor them financially. So, this isn't something I can just say, ok done, and walk away. I have problems now with a junkie and my sponsorship. I have to find a way out of that mess. This was a huge mistake on my part. He played a great CON game and truth is had I not been drinking at that time to escape a very stressful life, I probably would have been onto it and made a better decision. AL completely clouds our ability for good judgement. Not just when drinking, but the whole damage that occurs while drinking abusively.

Unfortunately, our present system favors the immigrant. He only has a temporary green card, but they are so overworked and the system such a mess, most of the time they just put the stamp on any request and go home and drink themselves. They don't care. This is my money and I am not going to let some scam artist take anymore of it!

Last time you and I talked I was in pieces. I took him back again thinking maybe no drinking and more love would solve it. THAT IS MY CRIME! That is my dislodged thinking. I fell into the trap of thinking love conquers all once again. It DOES NOT!!! It becomes a vulnerability for con artists.

However, you have a direct hit on one point. He is a narcissist and you can never have a healthy relationship with that personality type...DISORDER!!!! We are just stepping stones and game pieces to them.

Thanks for replying. My self esteem will be just fine after this garbage is taken out. Men who work to keep women down are very common. I thought I was done with these lessons, but I guess I had one more coming...sort of like our AL slips. Eventually we STOP IT!!!

I may be rambling a bit today. Have a ton on my mind and still have a bit of a dry socket screaming in my mouth. And, no I WILL NOT DRINK! I'm not giving any enemies any room to break me.

Love ya, girl.

Slay

P.S. - My family does not have the example of narcissism. Drinking, yes. lol

Edit: Oh and Kuya, I might add he was the first man to make my knees buckle in quite some time. LOLOL!!!!! Ruf, meow...