Newbies Nest

[Cherokeer]

Newbies Nest

Thanks Available!! I feel like I climbed my first mountain!! Such a simple choice but it feels like a million bucks.

[available]

Newbies Nest

You have climbed your first mountain and many more to come which get easier and easier. It wasnt simple beforehand worrying about not drinking but how to get through the trip, it shows the determination you have to not drink again and as you can see MWO is also a wonderful place to get help. I would not have been able to do my trip to thailand without tossing my thoughts and feelings around and knowing i could not fail all that had helped me.

[Lavande]

Newbies Nest

Good morning Nesters,

Wow, congrats on the 10k run Petrel! Sounds good to me, I have never been a runner.
If you choose to drink moderately & can actually handle it then good for you. The problem is that most of us here have found out that we just cannot do that. We have 'crossed that line', can't go back. I do wonder though why you equate drinking with freedom? Taking the importance off of drinking allowed me the freedom to choose not to drink & that's a better choice for me

Cherokeer, great on the AF kayaking trip! You must being feeling proud today!

DD, I do understand your concerns re your upcoming surgery & recovery. I really hope you can surround yourself with family & friends for support. Maybe you can even 'borrow' a pet for a while. Joining an AA group now wouldn't hurt either. I'll bet your hospital offers a support group as well. You are absolutely right about improved outcomes in breast cancer these days. When I first entered the nursing profession back in the early 70's it was a different story. You have the support of all of us here :l

Dottie, I went through the whole business of emptying & selling my parents home with no help either. I had three disinterested brothers who wouldn't lift a finger. You can get thru this I know because I did! You don't have to put the house in perfect condition so don't kill yourself

Wishing everyone a wonderful AF Sunday. I have lots to do before my grandsons arrive this afternoon - oh boy!!

Lav

[Cherokeer]

Newbies Nest

Avail,
MWO, is such a great support system. Having you guys "in my corner" really makes me felt not so alone. Everyone's great advice and empathy (because they were right where I am) helps me know I am not alone in my struggles. I understand that a major change is a process and that I will be encountering "new AF" experiences and I will have to relearn to live a better, healthier way of life. And there will be UPS and downs as life is. I'm ready to be AF for the rest of my life. I was so worried about yesterday but I had the best time ever.

[Darkest Diamond]

Newbies Nest

Afternoon to all,
Cherokeer,
The kayacking sounds fab, glad to hear you sounding on such a high! I agree with you MWO is a great support system, I don't post nearly as much as some people but I am always glad it is here!! In one of your posts you mentioned dignity, that for me is one of the huge bonuses of sobriety, not just the outer dignity that people see, but the inner dignity of knowing that you are leading a sober life, not secretly drinking every night after work (as I was).
Sarah,
Sounds like you are having a tough time at the moment. Hope you are feeling a bit better now. I don't understand why I kept drinking for so long but now I can see how it was restricting my life (and could have killed me) it has been easy to let it go. I am a slow learner it took me several years to reach this understanding!!

[Darkest Diamond]

Newbies Nest

Feel so much better now than this morning, partly through talking to neighbours, walking in sunshine and chatting to friends on phone...... I need people! Hope everyone is enjoying sunshine today.
Ava I bet your pets are having a wonderful life now that you have been AF for so long!
Lav I agree about breast cancer survival rate being so much better than previously, I am no nurse, but have discussed it with others/read about it.

[Pavati]

Newbies Nest

MAE, All:

Since you asked, Petrel... I found that taking the choice of alcohol off the table completely was the most freeing act I've ever taken. If I was moderating, or trying to moderate as the case may be, I was constantly thinking about alcohol - only on the weekends and special occasions. Well, is this a special occasion? I drank Tuesday, so I guess this is a blown week. I just need a little drink to get to sleep. I'm celebrating. I'm mourning. Just one. F*$K! Too many. This morning, I PROMISE, no drinking (at least until I go camping in June...) You get my point. Now I do long for it from time to time, but ultimately, because I don't have to bargain with myself each and every time, those feelings are short lived. It sounds simplistic, and when one is in the early stages of quitting it is annoying and makes no sense, but the attitude of gratitude is important. You sound like a optimistic person and like it wouldn't be too hard for you.

Cherokeer! Awesome. I'm so happy for you, and sorry your cousins wouldn't leave you alone. Your getting to experience a new kind of high - without alcohol. It took a while for my brain to adjust to that - I read that it can take a year or more for your brain receptors to heal, but it will come.

DD - I think it is very normal to be tired and to be thinking so much of your surgery. Meditation can help with that - shaking off the worries about the future to be in the present. I'll be thinking of you on June 11.

Sarah - all I have to add is that it really IS easier to figure out the why of drinking - to figure out who we truly are - when we are sober. If thinking about forever is too difficult, make a commitment for 30 days, or even a week, and see where you are and how you feel.

And finally, I read on another thread that our NoSugar had 500 days sober!! Whoot and way to go! Thanks for showing us how it is done, and for supporting us all along the way.

Happy Sober Sunday, everyone.

Pav

[wagmore]

Newbies Nest

DD - You are doing so well staying AF with all the health stress in your life right now. Thank you so much for sharing what you're going through. I firmly believe that being AF while you deal with all of the tests, surgeries, possible chemo, etc will only help you stay stronger as it will be one less stress on your physiological systems. Hugs to you!

Cherokeer - Fantastic news about your kayaking day!!! I am so happy for you! I know from my own sober weekend outing (the singles picnic) that this can feel like a huge accomplishment (or a mountain climbed, as you said). I hope the great feelings you got from this help carry you forward.

Petrel - congrats on your 10K, and hope your calf heals quickly!

Pav - I have found the exact same thing to be true. For me personally, it has been so much easier to just make drinking a non-negotiable idea. When I tried to moderate, I would get into these complicated and stressful internal "conversations" with myself, finding reasons or excuses to drink, making allowances for special circumstances, justifying, whatever... all the while trying in vain to talk myself out of it. Now I am still tempted at times, sometimes sorely, but I start from a position of "NO" and it usually nips that conversation/negotiation in the bud. Then I am left to deal head-on with whatever is triggering me at the time (not always easy). I have often thought about drinking during the past 38 days, but I have never once regretted that I didn't drink. Big change from all the occasions where I'd later regret drinking!

[wagmore]

Newbies Nest

Sarah - I haven't been around long enough to know what you've been going through, so I won't try to comment on that. You said that you're here to get help, and others have commented that they have tried to help. Do you have any insights you can share regarding what type of help we can offer that would benefit you the most? Different people need and are looking for different things. Can you ask for what you need? Maybe you already have and I just didn't read back far enough - if that is the case I apologize for being in the dark.

Also, if you feel like you need to understand WHY you drink before you'll be able to stop, I respect that position. For me, it has been working quite the opposite. Since I stopped drinking, I have been able to more clearly stop, examine, and reflect whenever I felt triggered to drink. When I was drinking, there was little time between the thought crossing my mind and the AL going down my throat. By the time it occurred to me to think about WHY, I was already thinking less clearly.

I still haven't figured it all out (I'm only on Day 38), but I'm gradually gaining insights and seeing some patterns to my triggers. This is enabling me to develop different strategies for release, relief, coping, distracting, etc.

It sounds like you've been saying that you haven't figured out "you" while you've been continuing to drink. Maybe try stopping for a few days and see if you can figure out a few pieces of you during that sober time. You have to walk your own path, and what works for one person won't necessarily work for another. Just wanted to offer a different perspective.

[Byrdlady]

Newbies Nest

Wow, busy nest!
Chero, I tell you, it's wins like yours that make it all worth this effort. It may SEEM like a small thing, but it isn't. Drinking has been such a way of life for all us that breaking that cycle and just taking the easy route is so tempting. I am SO proud of you! As I have said many times here, I am usually the only nondrinker in my social circles, and that's fine. There are plenty of them that wish they were me (or at least, not drinking). They wake up feeling like hell every day. I did that too, I know what a prison it is.

DD, we are holding you close this week. All of our thoughts are with you.

Sarah....there are so many stages along this journey. Every single one of us were afraid to be without our prop. The sooner you take those training wheels off the better the ride will be. I can't wait to see that, either....in your short time here, you offer great support to others, by what you have seen so far. It will be a great day when you get to your milestones, too. I can't wait to moon you!

Petrel, Petrel, Petrel......
Believe it or not, you have brought up a subject that I am very passionate about; Moderating!
Let us look at the facts, shall we?
All of us here are alcoholics. I know, we all don't want to hear/admit/ say it out loud, but alas. Every single one of us reading on this site have a problem serious enough to google 'Alcohol Problems' , find this site, join and participate in it. You may have seen in the Tool Box, the stages of Alcoholism, so most of us can classify ourselves as in some stage of it. So if we accept the fact that we are alcoholics (to some degree) we must take it to the next step. Can moderating be done? The answer is, it depends on WHO YOU ASK. If you read over on the mods boards, you will see folks posting happily that they are successfully moderating and loving it. EXCEPT when you follow them closely. Pick any person and read ALL of their posts and also check out how long they've been 'successfully' moderating. According to the guidelines, it's 14 "UNITS" per week for a man, and 7 units for a woman per week. Anything other than that is NOT moderating, it is still alcoholic drinking. Also, you must be aware of 'moderating speak'. This is where everything looks like sunshine and roses UNTIL you learn how to read MS. It goes something like this..... I was able to stick to my moderating goals ALL week, except last night when I had 3 beers, then I came home and had 2 shots, and just a half glass of wine. I felt like hell this morning, but I won't drink today for sure. (but then they go on to drink that day, just not as much) I am doing great this week, I only drank 2 nights this week and will drink tonight, then I have a wedding this weekend and a party on Sunday. I promised myself I wasn't going to drink this week, but I did, I'm not going to beat myself up about it. I went over my limits, but will watch it the rest of the week. I am following my moderating goals of not drinking thru the week and just drinking on weekends, except last night when hubs and I split a bottle of wine. I will be AF tonight. THIS is NOT moderating by the guidelines, this is an alcohol free- for- all. They are all depressed and are blaming everyone and every thing for it. IT'S THE ALCOHOL!!! They talk about us like we are nuts over here, about how miserable we are that we can't drink, but if you ask me, we are the HAPPY ones! If they equate GETTING to drink like that as happiness, count me out. The mind games are horrendous. Just drinking on special occasions sounds nice and all, or just drinking on weekends, but like Pav said, it just doesn't work out that way for us alkies. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. There is some real science behind addiction, too, so don't just take my word for it. Why should you believe me? Well, as in life, this is something you will have to find out for yourself....but if 100 people walk off a cliff and 99 of them die, then that's pretty compelling to me. I tried it myself for 10 days shy of a year....I never drank harder. I always started out ok, but then when I actually got some AL I drank out of panic or something, as if I were making up for lost time. After all, I was FEEDING my addiction. So miserable a failure I was, that I have tracked this in my 4 and a half years here....I am going to make a statement that is hard to believe....I have never seen one case of successful, long term moderation. EVER. As in NEVER. I'll get heat for this, they'll come at me with guns a-blazing...."I moderated great for 3 months until I decided to go AF you hag!!!" Well that's not really LONG TERM is it? If you think you feel deprived NOW, just wait til you start trying to moderate! Whatever you get is NEVER enough!! You are always deprived! Plus, I find that moderators are not honest about what they drink, either. How do I know this?? I was one of them!! I WANTED it to work BAD!! I tried to fit in and make it work, I have seen people fight this for years and years, and it is sad to watch. AL is going to win. So now, when someone tells me that they have decided to moderate, it's like watching someone walk into a propeller. I know what they are about to encounter. It's awful. But it's something that each of us have to try out for ourselves. I wish I had a nickel for every person here who have written that they were thinking about moderating. If we really face the truth, isn't that what we tried to do BEFORE we got here? Didn't you spend YEARS trying to control this? What has changed? More knowledge? More self awareness? The truth is, NOTHING has changed. You are addicted to AL and nothing is going to change that. Even on this site, moderation is talked about using those high powered drugs with serious side effects. You should read some of the things those folks are enduring so they can drink...it is sad to think about the sheer POWER AL has over us....that we would endure all these things, just to drink. Your 30 some days were amazing, but it takes a considerably longer time to get the distance needed to see clearly. AL shows no mercy on us. The only way to break free is to stop consuming it. It is NOT worth it...it is NOT worth all the pain it causes. Just look at the mind games it's playing already. Sorry to write a book on this, but I would challenge you to really do your homework and really follow those people you were reading about. They drop out of site for days/weeks/months at a time.... I would dare to say that all of us with longterm sobriety have tried to moderate. If it worked, we wouldn't be here.

I think there are 2 sure signs you are an Alkie....one is when you try to quit and realize you can't....the other is when you decide to moderate. Don't fall for it. It's a trick!

Have a great AF day, everyone! Byrdie

[Ginger999]

Newbies Nest

Byrdie, Thanks for this post. It really says it all for me. I tried like hell to moderate and realized that I can't. I have to quit completely. I'm so happy I finally got to the place to know that about myself. I now say to myself, "If one, why not none", whenever I feel like just having the proverbial "one".

Have a great AF MAE.....

[j-vo]

Newbies Nest

MAE Nesters,

Petrel, I know Byrdie has given quite the argument for not moderating. Are you sure you're not a lawyer, Byrdie? I can only add that the post you wrote was something I wrote a thousand times, as it's our addictive voice saying "It's time you moderate, sucker!" And like any alcoholic (or person in recovery) we follow that voice, as it's extremely seductive.

What resonated with me from Byrdie's post is the fact that Moderating = Deprivation. That is so true. Because our addiction can never be satisfied, we are always depriving it. I never really thought of it that way. The only way I thought of "deprivation" was that WE CAN'T HAVE IT. That's the way we hear it and use it as alcoholics. We feel deprived because we can't have that "feel good buzz" that brings on a drunk then brings on a hangover that makes us feel like shit, induces anxiety and depression, makes us stupid, humiliates us. We have to play it out until the end of that special occasion. And so many people are right about the fact that short term, it's possible. Some people's short terms are shorter than others, but play that thought through a year or two. What is it like, really.

[j-vo]

Newbies Nest

Cherokeer, congratulations on a great 8-hour kayaking trip! How awesome it is to hear success stories like the one you were able to share today. What I especially loved is when you said "living life with dignity." So true. That's my biggest gift being AF.

DD, hang in there dear. And I agree on the pet thing. They bring so much happiness and peace.

So last night, we went into the city for an Arts Festival. Yeah, I certainly spent some cash, bought MIL her Christmas present, as she's so difficult to buy for at last minute, but it was a truly lovely night. The weather was perfect, the company great, and just being in a beautiful city was perfect. My DH said to me as I was frantically taking pics of a city I've lived in for almost 50 years, "jvo, you act like you've never seen this or that before!" Nope, Mr. jvo, not in a way I could appreciate it like I do now.

[j-vo]

Newbies Nest

wagmore;1669509 wrote: Sarah -

Also, if you feel like you need to understand WHY you drink before you'll be able to stop, I respect that position. For me, it has been working quite the opposite. Since I stopped drinking, I have been able to more clearly stop, examine, and reflect whenever I felt triggered to drink. When I was drinking, there was little time between the thought crossing my mind and the AL going down my throat. By the time it occurred to me to think about WHY, I was already thinking less clearly.

Wag, I really like your perspective on this. This is exactly what happened to me as well. Not only am I able to reflect more clearly on why I drank and that it wasn't helping, just going AF made so many areas of my life improve without me doing anything! Not a damn thing. And I was a person that lived with self-hatred, depression, anxiety, and no confidence. It didn't matter what I achieved professionally, I never achieved emotionally. Alcohol held me back from achieving emotionally and to me, that is way more important than professional achievement.

[NoSugar]

Newbies Nest

Thanks for the recognition, Pav :l. Day 501 sure is a lot easier than day 1.

The chicken and the egg discussion going on here is interesting. No one wants to be a dry drunk so I certainly agree that simply not consuming alcohol is not enough. And changing our thinking and dealing with underlying problems certainly makes it easier not to drink. While it is essential to do the work of becoming a sober person, I don't think it can be done while you are regularly drinking.

People with serious weight problems talk about there being a thin person inside them desperately wanting to get out. I think there must be a sober person wanting to be free within anyone who comes to MWO. To lose weight, you've got to set up physical, social, psychological, and biochemical conditions such that you not only can control what you eat but also make your body metabolically normal. Until your body can burn fat, it doesn't matter how little you eat.

Not consuming alcohol sets up your brain biochemistry not to crave it anymore, making it easier not to drink. The longer the time not drinking, the more your brain heals, allowing you to think more clearly and have more normal emotions and reactions. This makes dealing with all aspects of your life - past and present - possible.

So maybe it isn't a chicken/egg situation and they need to be simultaneous to become truly sober: not drinking makes healing possible makes not drinking easier and on and on.