Newbies Nest

[See the Light]

Newbies Nest

Matt M.;1695623 wrote: Wanted to share a story I found from a MWO'er in the" long term abstinence" thread. I fell into this with 10 months af~ It goes to show how powerful AL is.

Thanks for letting me share!
AF Day 16

Yes thanks Matt- I think that is a great reminder that we never really are cured from this disease. 30 days, 1 year, 5 years AF are all great #s..until they are not.

[Byrdlady]

Newbies Nest

Matt M.;1695623 wrote: Wanted to share a story I found from a MWO'er in the" long term abstinence" thread. I fell into this with 10 months af~ It goes to show how powerful AL is.

Thanks for letting me share!
AF Day 16
This is quite a find, Matt M. I wish we could figure out a way to get that onto NoSugar's relapse in retrospect thread? Getting all of those stories in one place is powerful. In my 5years on this site, I have never seen moderation work. Of course, it depends on your definition of moderation....by the guidelines, it's one thing, if you are the one trying to do it, it's another (see my posts on just having 2 glasses (Viking Goblets!)) :H:H I contend that the only people who can moderate are the ones who don't realize they are doing it. By the time you start setting rules for AL, it has already won.

NoSugar;1695677 wrote: The cravings at the beginning are so hard. In this video, the speaker says that the word is used so casually that it has lost meaning. The addict doesn't crave a drink the way a person craves a piece of pie or a juicy steak - but more like a drowning person craves air: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hz6-2NwRzE. Getting past that is an accomplisment to be proud of!

The thing to remember is that the feeling will pass - usually within several minutes - so in that way it is not at all like drowning. You don't need to panic and think you'll feel like this forever or die. You won't. And each time you make it through, you're stronger. Posting on here like some of you did last night is such a great way to deal with a craving. Keep with it and with time, they fade and ultimately disappear.

NoSugar, THIS post is SO important....I didn't think I could survive a craving.....when they came I just thought "Oh no, this is it". But that's NOT it....you can overcome it! Immediately get your mind to something else or IT will win! A drink, for someone having a craving, is better known as a FIX, if that puts this into perspective. Just because AL is legal doesn't make it less deadly that heroin. For us, one drink is the beginning of the end. The problem IS the first drink. The pathways in our brain are now cut like the valleys of the Grand Canyon....you get one drink in there, and the flow starts automatically. This is addiction. This thing we have is not just a bad habit, it is addiction. This thing is out for all the marbles, every time we give in we give it strength. If you remember the thing about Pavlov's Dog....it's all about stimulus and response. After a while, just when the dog heard the bell he salivated. We are just like that with AL, if you reinforce the behavior it gets stronger. You have to just bite the bullet and ride them out or they will win! This is hard, but it's what breaks the cycle. This is the nothing changes if nothing changes part.....you have to beat that craving! The harder the craving is...the more you KNOW you should fight it. Normal /moderate drinkers don't have AL cravings.

To this day, 1309 days along, when I get hungry, it makes me think of AL! As alkies, this is a common theme. Don't mistake hunger for a craving....EAT! WearyWino, you gave an excellent example....I bet the last thing you wanted after you ate all that was a drink?!! Mission accomplished.

Pav, thank you for the kind words....I write the words here as much for myself as for anyone else.
I am STILL here for my sobriety, too. I'm not just here to say, I've done it, now it's smooth sailing why can't YOU do it. There are still times that this is not easy, I enjoy the support I get here. If the nest isn't to your liking, find a thread you DO like and jump in. This is a lifelong party and we got an invitation....it takes support to keep things in check.

Frances, we had a nester that was 7 days shy of a year and went on vacation thinking she could just have the one occasional drink....to this day, she is still not back on board. I don't think the contents of one glass were worth the roughly 3 years of hell she has been in since. You cannot moderate addiction. (If you could, I'd be outta here! My name would be Tail Lights!!!) Matt M's post is a grim reminder to us....this is just like a peanut allergy, one nut and we are cracked open!

Stay strong nesters. GET ALL THE AL OUT OF YOUR SPACE! Set yourself up for success because nobody else is going to do it, in fact, expect that they are NOT going to do it. Lean on us, we will get you thru the deep water! Byrdie

[See the Light]

Newbies Nest

whitemarshmom;1695681 wrote: im back for another day.. If i could drink as little ( relatively speaking) as i did yesterday.. only a 4 pack of chardonnay or equivalent of 1 bottle of wine, maybe i would be ok.. Took kids to football prax and back home for dinner, cleaned up rooms, finished laundry, read books and went to bed.. but we all know how that is not possible. AL just leads you in , and says this time will be different, which last night was, but it doesnt take long for things to get right back to the blackouts and not remembering the nights and passing out. COngratulations to you Weary and Daisy. I will stay off roll call, until i have a few days under my belt... Bottom line is , i need to stop drinking all togther, moderation has not worked for me in the past.

wmm- It's never different this time

[Cocoflo]

Newbies Nest

Good Morning, just checking in. Matt, thank you for the post on moderation. In the past, that thought has lurked in my head (especially after about a week - where I am right now). I now truly believe that I need abstain all together. One always leads to many, many more, hiding bottles, etc. I just don't need that in my life anymore.

Great day all! Stay strong!

coco

[peppersnow]

Newbies Nest

Byrdie - for those flying underwear, THANK YOU!! :thanks: I don't know if you're aware of how much those prizes mean to people, but they're really cool and I love getting mine, so thank you for that! Thanks also to everyone else - Weary, Pinecone, Lav, Pav, NS, etc.

NS and Matt, those were both really valuable posts - thank you so much for sharing. NS, can you share the link from that relapse post you started that Byrdie mentioned? I can't seem to find it. I'm trying to be hyper-aware of relapse and remind myself I'm never going to be completely out-of-the-woods, and posts like the above are hugely important. The most time AF free time I previously had under my belt was 60 days, then gave into that 1 glass of wine. That 1 glass quickly spiraled into more drinking than I'd ever done before. Either Byrdie or NS mentioned the Kindling effect, which for sure I can vouch for was real for me. After a period of AF time, trying to moderate resulted in an addiction for me that was MUCH worse with regard to both quantities and when I started. I became an a.m. drinker and sipped my days away -- makes me shiver just thinking about it. My DH actually hoped I'd get a DWI.

For me, anyway, the longer the period of time is that I've had AF, the worse the relapse is and the deeper and darker the hell is that I have thrown myself into. Posts like the ones shared by Matt and NS are affirmation that when the "Just 1" voice pops up, we need to smack it down.

Another important tool is learning to call ourselves out on the "fine wine tasting" charade. For many MWO'ers, the downward spiral of moderation begins with being offered a very nice glass of wine at dinner on a special occasion; we tell ourselves that it's too good of a thing to pass up, and only one glass so what can it hurt, and the tasting is a refined and elegant "experience" we will miss out on if we pass it up. That might be true for some people, but for alkies that's ALL BULLSHIT. What we really want is the buzz, baby, and the more economical the better, so why not skip the pretense of the nice glass of wine and just bring on the box of Franzia?

Jenni, if you still have any of that nice wine around, I'd echo what others have said and get rid of it. Give it to a friend, or the next time you attend a party bring the whole case and leave it? You'll be sure to win the "best dinner party guest ever" award!

Have a great week, all, and stay strong. Cheers!

[Wearywino]

Newbies Nest

NoSugar;1695677 wrote: The addict doesn't crave a drink the way a person craves a piece of pie or a juicy steak - but more like a drowning person craves air: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hz6-2NwRzE.

No Sugar - thank you so much for posting this video :thanks:.

I have just watched it and for the first time I feel that I understand what my addiction is. Why I feel the horrific craving for a drink - whilst other 'normal' people just find it a simple pleasure. It is also interesting to understand about dopamines (the pleasure hormone) and why addicts of any drug will sometimes move from one to another (including nicotine and caffeine).

I urge anyone struggling with massive cravings to watch this video (it's quite long and you can probably skip the first 10 minutes) but it will hopefully give you a logical reason as to why you feel this way.

[Matt M.]

Newbies Nest

Thanks all~ One thing that always sticks in my mind regarding relapse and [B]very unique trait[B] of having what I have( alcohol problem) is the lack of any real tolerance. Most people seem to have to build up, with af stints of 6, 8, and 10 months, I have been able to go back out like I had never been away. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing right about that. I also had the ability to use AL as an upper and a downer again, that F! Up. Both seem to defy logic.
Any thanks everyone!

Thy will be done, Not mine!

[See the Light]

Newbies Nest

The Kindling Effect of Addiction

Because honestly I wasn't sure I understood the Kindling Effect as discussed here yesterday, I looked it up and found some good links. The link below is the one I liked best (although if anyone has better info, please add). Thanks

The Kindling Effect of Addiction

The Kindling Effect of Addiction |

[wagmore]

Newbies Nest

Lots of interesting conversation about cravings. I don't really get "cravings" per se, but I do get urges. For me, the key to getting past these successfully has been in the conversations I have with myself in my head. In other words, when I have caved in the past, it has been because the urge hit and I didn't argue (or at least not hard enough). Instead, I would nod my head and agree - yes, you deserve to drink because of _____, yes, a drink or two will make ____ feel better, etc.

The times I have been successful at riding out the urges, I have done one of two things:

1. Distract myself until the urge passes. I don't really engage in the internal conversation, I just decide to wait 30 minutes and do something completely different. The urge almost always passes within that time and I go on my merry AF way.

2. Argue against the AL voice, sometimes very hard. This takes some planning and practice. I have had to develop some phrases I can use that are effective in countering anything the AL voice tosses my way. CBT has been very helpful in this regard.

Example: Last night my paddling practice ended with my coach doing something (again) that was very adolescent and hurtful. I drove home feeling bad about it, and suddenly the urge to drink and numb that feeling arose in my head. I think I entertained it for about a block, and then I drew from my phrase-bank. "No, I will not continue to rent that woman space in my head. No, I will not let her actions steal my joy. No, I will not let 110 days of AF time go down the tubes for someone and something so trivial. Eff you AL for trying to take advantage of me during a weak moment - I will not let you win."

It worked. By the time I got home I had re-asserted my solid stance and was fine. This was a relatively small challenge, but was one I was consciously aware of fighting through.

For those of you battling cravings, maybe start reflecting on the various strategies you've tried to get past them and make note of the ones that work best for you. Your strategies might be vastly different than mine or anyone else's - the key is having some strategies and actively engaging them, because otherwise the AL voice will almost always win.

[KENSHO]

Newbies Nest

Good morning everyone! So much to read!

SARAH, I'm glad you are having an aha moment! You seem interested in finding things that will help you change your situation, which is GOOD! I found that I drank for many different reasons and each of them have had to have "aha's" and be addressed. However, I have also found that I couldn't deal with them until I stopped drinking entirely.

MATTM, I love your avatar.

WMM, you said this:
"If i could drink as little ( relatively speaking) as i did yesterday.. only a 4 pack of chardonnay or equivalent of 1 bottle of wine, maybe i would be ok.. "

[KENSHO]

Newbies Nest

Good morning everyone! So much to read!

SARAH, I'm glad you are having an aha moment! You seem interested in finding ideas to help you change your situation, which is GOOD! I found that I drank for many different reasons and each of them have had to have "aha's" and be addressed. However, I have also found that I couldn't deal with them until I stopped drinking entirely.

MATTM, I love your avatar.

WMM, you said this:
"If i could drink as little (relatively speaking) as i did yesterday.. only a 4 pack of chardonnay or equivalent of 1 bottle of wine, maybe i would be ok.. "
I was a 3-4 a night drinker - a bottle of wine in one night was my max. And I am here because it was not ok. You are used to more, but it is still a LOT of AL, and you would want more and more and more.....

It seems that there are two different mental parts to recovery that we need to master:
1. Deciding that we should never drink again, for certain, forever
2. Actually doing it (handling cravings, substituting healthy behaviors i.e. "dealing" with stressors)

Here's a video that should help with no. 1 above, about how much damage AL does to us. There's a real epidemic of young people drinking without truly understanding the health consequences - because it's socially acceptable and encouraged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vEe6eenpg

Keep strong everyone!

[whitemarshmom]

Newbies Nest

I cannot even watch that entire video , it is too scary Kensho

Great post Pepper. the wine tasting charade, it really is the buzz, sounded like me, bring on the box

I went back in my history and saw that i have been fighting this beast since my son was 3 1/2 years old, he is almost 10 now. I reached out to MWO shortly after my daughter was born in 2008, and she is now almost 7.. I am sad to think about the things they have witnessed... I was never a wine drinker, until after i had my daughter, and then i started buying bottle after bottle, box after box, the hiding started.. I am back on day 1 today and in retrospect Monday was day 1 for me, Tuesday could have been day 2 and I could be working on day 3 right now.. But i gave in, and i know i gave in WAY too easily... i could have fought harder, the craving for the FIX, that i know it is wasn't that strong.... we have a busy weekend ahead, so tonight will be day 1 for me again...

[Fin]

Newbies Nest

Good morning, all. Been wading through all the posts, and lots of activity. We're all certainly working hard! WMM, let's get back on track, aye?

I had a real affirmation for the principal reason I want to rid my life of AL after going to see that movie, Boyhood. It's long at 2 hr 45 mins, but really well done. The protagonist boy, his sister and mom experience two step fathers who become alcoholics. The first one struck a nerve as he portrayed a buzzed behavioral trait I've caught myself acting out while buzzed -- basically being unreasonable about the kid's chores and overreacting in general. It was also interesting to see the progression of these step fathers from very loving and in control, to abusive drunks. That's what's ahead of me if I continue AL? F' that.

I'm always amazed by the difference in the quality I experience with my kids when I'm sober. That last two nights are no exception. We talk more, we touch more (my daughter put her arm around me hangin' out on the porch last night - I almost teared up), and we laugh. For example, we've gotten caught up in this ice bucket challenge and all participated last night. It was a riot. If I had been drinking, I wouldn't have been into it.

Anyway, for any dads and moms out there, definitely check out Boyhood. Not only is the story good, but its cinematic approach is interesting as it was filmed over twelve years - same actors, real aging process.

Stay strong and be good,
-Fin

[whitemarshmom]

Newbies Nest

Aye Fin! made me smile Thanks!

[Fin]

Newbies Nest

jenniech;1695452 wrote: you are all an inspiration?. i just DUMPED my glass of wine
one step at a time

YES. That first one it a big one! Thanks for the powerful post.