Newbies Nest

[Pavati]

Hi, Everyone:

Sorry about your friend, Mossy. I think suicide leaves so many questions. I think about it like I think about alcohol. In one of the documentaries I watched early in my quit (a GREAT way to pass the time if you're feeling wobbly), a mom had lost her kids and continued drinking anyway. At that point, I say that HAS to be someone who does not have proper decision making capabilities. It seems like she is choosing alcohol over her children, but really it is alcohol choosing. In the same way, I don't think anyone could leave behind their kids, grandkids, families if they thought there was any way out. There are students at my school whose parents have committed suicide and I wonder how they ever recover. The only way would be to understand mental illness - to realize it isn't a rational choice they are making.

Ican, good on you for showing restraint. I totally get your idea of "training" him to be that way by a tacit understanding that he would leave your drinking alone if you left him alone. I definitely did that, too. Wow, my relationship is so much stronger and I take things so much less personally now that I am sober and can actually process my feelings and thoughts. Stay away from that beer.

Byrdie (and Matt as commentator) - You are spot on. NoSugar posted on the gratitude thread that having a pain in her knee when she wakes up can be an opportunity for gratitude that she can walk. All of these tragedies are reminders to live each day to the fullest. And all we have to do to stay alive it not drink.

Rednose - Sleep and eat, sleep and eat. And read here. I recommend clicking all of those links people leave - good reading, and a great way to pass the time.

NS - Thanks for the link. I have read her blog for a couple of years. A friend of mine (who is one of us) recommended it to me. I love the idea of being able to jump off the ride early, before it hits rock bottom. I feel lucky that I got the opportunity to do that. Don't get me wrong, things were bad enough, but thankfully I still have my family, my health and my job.

Blackflag - Good on you for logging in, and I'm glad you came this way. Upon a recommendation from NS, I actually connected wiht some MWO people from a beer garden a couple of weeks ago. You never know when those tough situations will hit - helps to have a good plan to connect with others when you need to.

Lav - I agree. Thanks for coming to help us out as you are suffering yourself.

Happy Thursday. What are everyone's plans for a SOBER weekend?

xo
Pav

[narilly]

Great posts here today.

Really sorry about your coworker Mossy. That really sucks.

Hey NS, great post.

I am tired tonight so will post tomorrow.
Sober Thursday for me.

[KENSHO]

Thank you all for the thoughts for my friend. I am feeling hopeful.

On the topic of others...Why do others want us to drink so much? I remember when I first started dating my husband and he actually said that he didn't think he could be with someone who didn't drink. That was 15 years ago, but many people feel like that. We used to say it about some neighbor friends of ours - we would go out to dinner with them and they would not drink. We would be driving home and say... they would be more fun to hang out if they would have a beer and loosen up. They were very internal quiet people, but we also wanted them to participate with us. Maybe it was the idea of us all being "in it together". I wish I understood it better. Can anyone enlighten me?

[Matt M.]

That is a good question, Ken my Fren
I think it is due to the fact that alcohol is so accepted and almost expected as the norm. I spend a lot of time with the people I work with ( 24 hour shifts) they are like family, but for the most part if I were to say I'm not drinking anymore, is like committing blasphemy. Some of my closest friends in the world can't seem to grasp the thought of ME not drinking. Looking back, inn pretty sure I had a hard time understanding how non drinkers functioned. I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of heckling people for not drinking.
I still believe it just goes back to the overall majority of society's acceptance of drinking. It's like as adults, drinking is almost expected. If one chooses to not drink, they are immediately labeled a t totaler, holy roller, and many other derogatory names. This day and age you almost feel like an oddball for not drinking. Sad that alcohol, which causes as much if not more devastation than most unacceptable illegal drugs, Is accepted as and expected as status quo.
Oh well for today I'm OK with being an oddball...

[Lavande]

Good morning Nesters & Oddballs

Matt, I am coming to realize there are a whole lot more closet non-drinkers than I thought. Of course a lot of them are my age & on medications for other health issues, Lol. I meet a group of friends (former co-workers) on a regular basis for lunch & no one ever drinks & we still have a great time.

Wishing everyone a wonderful AF Friday! It's 30 degrees here with a dusting of snow on the ground already! Brrrr!!!

Lav

[MossRose]

Good morning. It looks like I missed some good posts last night. Matt, I think you nailed it. The minute you say you don't drink, people automatically assume you must be a stick in the mud. Sad, because I can't think of anything less fun than spending time with someone (or being someone) who is slurring their words, stumbling, getting loud, and repeating themselves all night long. Now that's boring. But I only feel compassion for those still stuck in that life since I used to believe it was "fun" too. Until it wasn't.

Lav, I was insensitive last night, and I apologize. This situation with my coworker doesn't begin to come close to the tsunami of grief washing through your family right now. It was just such jarring news, and people are so upset. I needed time to process. It just saddens me that there is so much despair in the world, many times well hidden by a smile. At least, that was true in this case.

Please keep my brother in your thoughts today. He is having another biopsy, and is terrified. I'm still hopeful that it's a reaction to the radiation. He is less optimistic. I just hope that regardless of the outcome, he gets the results quickly. The waiting and worrying is starting to affect his mental health. He just wants to know so he can get a plan in place.

Have a good Friday everyone. Check in later.

[See the Light]

GMAE all- yeah, I agree..I think it felt like everything was more fun when drinking at the time, and those not joining were “killing our buzz” as they say. Except we were probably as fun as we thought when drinking and probably more interesting than we realized when not. There are no superpowers associated with alcohol. It does not make anyone more interesting, funnier, sexier, stronger or a better dancer (that is a fact!). It almost always makes one worse at things without them realizing it ..now I prefer the company of other non-drinkers in social situations because frankly they seem less like idiots. I’m sure I was that idiot at one point, now I watch others and wonder if they know how they are acting when they drink. I generally feel in more control now when not drinking in social situations, which really makes the drinker seem like the oddball when you observe it from the other side. Matt- I think we’re on the right side… maybe look at this way…if you were setting up an epic game of dodgeball and were picking sides…and it ended up it was those drinking vs. those not..I can tell you for sure what side I would want to be on.

Hope everyone is gearing up for kick butt AF weekend…enjoy (even if there is no dodge ball ..but if not, why not? :rockon: )

[KENSHO]

Dodgeball. Now there's something I haven't played in about 28 years! I'm guilty of wanting others around me to drink. I just wish the pressure was gone. I'm going to AZ for a week with inlaws for TDAY. Typically, everyone drinks every night. It will be noticed that I don't drink and I'm getting a little nervous about it. Husband offered me a drink this week too. I think he is bummed that I'm not partaking.

That doesn't make it right for me to drink - and I know that. But I wish that doing something good for me wasn't disappointing to others.

I guess I will have to focus on the fact that I am fun and interesting without it - they will have to accept it!

[Byrdlady]

Kensho, I won't bore you with the details of how hubs gave me an ultimatum (him or AL), so later on in my quit, you can't imagine how FLOORED I was when he would offer me a drink! In his defense (and that of normal drinkers) they just don't understand how we operate. I finally had to get my hubs on board WITH me and tell him NOT to do that anymore. He can offer me something else, but NOT AL. I have told my hubs that there might be a time when I might tell him I could handle a drink here or there, and that time heals all things....I told him if he EVER heard these words coming from MY mouth, to call my support people. I CANNOT handle one drink....not now, not ever! To hear those words coming from my mouth will be trouble. So I just had to sit him down and explain to him that I will not be joining him in AL. Yes, it was an uncomfortable conversation, but I had to do it...I had to get him on the same page. Now, he looks out for me, and THAT'S a GOOD THING. He's got my back.

There was a time that I didn't want to hang out with nondrinkers, either. How on EARTH could they possibly function and RELAX without AL? A bunch of bores, I thought. I have grown to think of this as Intolerance. If I place a HIGH VALUE on something, and you don't feel the same way, then of course we are going to be in a different plane. Drinking was VERY important to me (to the exclusion of almost everything else!) and if YOU didn't feel the same way and actually impeded me from getting my AL? Then you were last on my list. Misery not only loves company, it loves MISERABLE company. This is the same with any high-value entity (religion, money, politics, etc). Today, I feel the opposite....my sobriety is priority one, and if you don't respect that, then you don't get chosen for my A team! Maybe I am intolerant of very heavy drinkers now, but I view it as a matter of life or death. I just can't put myself in the middle of that anymore. It isn't healthy for anyone. (and I am NOT Mother Theresa). Lead me NOT into temptation! I do my best to avoid situations like that. Drunk people aren't fun anymore. They are pathetic (and I was one of them).

I wonder if anyone remembers Rahul's story about his observation in an airport lounge one day (he travels extensively). He was sitting there drinking (after an extended period of sobriety), and while he drank to feel BETTER, he actually felt worse. He drank to relax, but was agitated.....he noticed a dignitary coming into the lounge, along with his entourage. Here was a man who had money and power and could order anything he wanted....and he ordered tea.

It's Friday around here! Hope everyone has a strong PLAN in place for the weekend! Check in often, we love to read how you are doing! Do whatever it takes to get thru this day AF! If you get a thought...push it out! Say, NO, HELL NO! AL will not take one more day of my precious life! xo, Byrdie

[Icanwithoutacan]

I don't know if this is good advice for everyone or not, but it works for me. I am an advocate of NA beer and/or sparking grape juice. I like to have a drink in my hand in social situations. Not that I am embarrassed or anything to tell people I don't drink, but it is just so much work sometimes. Then there's the whole having them think you are a stick in the mud. If you put it in a solo cup or wine glass or cover it with a "coozie" most people don't even notice. My husband packs non-alcoholic beer for my for big functions, and I have never had anyone say much even when they notice. I live in a huge drinking area so this works well for me.

[Pinecone]

Hi friends, great discussion today.

MR, I am sorry about your co-worker. I know that suicide is a very troubling thing that has wide ranging ripples. Sending you support.

To anyone quitting now or in the early stages of their quit, you have my RESPECT. The holiday season is approaching and we know what that is all about... ...spending time with family and loved ones (maintaining our relationships), giving thanks (gratitude), maybe time off from work if we are lucky (time to rest and reflect), eating a good meal (taking care of our body), giving gifts (thinking of others instead of ourselves), this list can go on and on. What the heck does alcohol have to do with that? Others may be drinking, but that is not my concern or business. Going into the holidays with a clear and sober heart is humbling. I think we need to repair our emotional connection to that season. Scrooge was way off track and he got visited by three ghosts that showed him the error of his ways. We can have a similar experience.

I've enjoyed the comments about being "the non drinker." I'm comfortable with it now, but at first it was a little intimidating. When I was drinking, I was always looking for partners in crime too. This is where YOU NEED A PLAN, friends. You need support and tools. I also want to mention one thing: every once in a while, I would encounter a very contented non-drinker. Just like out of Rahul's story. They would usually carry themselves with dignity. I was always very jealous of that person for being "the non drinker." I wanted to be that non drinker, real, real bad. You, reading this, you can be that non drinker! Someone might look at you and say "damn, that's cool, I wish I could quit..." and it might roll around in their head and make something happen someday. Just food for thought.

Byrdie, I had the same conversation with my wife that if I ever mention picking it up again that I am in BIG TROUBLE! Not many things are black and white, but this one is.

[narilly]

ICan, that is good advice, especially when you don't want to explaing to everyone you are not drinking AND when on top of that they think you are a stick in the mud.

I used the be the same way as all of you. "What? You don't drink? Seriously?" That is probably what I would say. I was intolerant, you said it right Byrdie. Although, I have a friend who's wife always says "I don't drink" and she looks at you with this 'don't F' with me' look. When she does that, people just say "oh, ok". So give em that look everyone! DON"T F' WITH ME!!!

In my mind Drinking meant Fun and Fun meant drinking. They always went hand in hand. I know that since I quit there are some people I see a lot less because I am not drinking. I guess that is why I hung out with them, so I could drink.

I have had drinking thoughts about tonight. I was thinking I could go to my neighbors and have wine and chat like old times. So instead I am going to post because the first hour of feeling warm and fuzzy leads to the next 3 hours of trying to fight it and not drink too much. Eventually I lose the fight and drink a bottle of wine. It might not happen tonight but it will tomorrow probably and then I will be hung over on Sunday. NO THANKS!
So I will come here tonight and read and post and NOT drink. Those thoughts scare the crap out of me but I know it is that AL brain still rearing its ugly head.

have a great sober day!

[Pavati]

Hi, Everyone:

I am working from home today so I have the luxury of checking in before bedtime. Hooray. Great discussion as usual.

An acquaintance I know quit drinking well before I did, and I found myself at a dinner party talking to him - really? Forever? Why? At the time I was confounded that he would do that just for "health" reasons (he said he was focusing on a triathalon), but in retrospect, I realize he is probably one of us, and was giving me the answers we talk about giving. I feel like such a schmuck! I realize, too, that many of my questions were based on the fact that I myself knew I should be giving up drinking as well, and still didn't really conceive that it was possible. So now when people get like that around me, I just answer and assume that they have questions about their own drinking that possibly they haven't even realized just yet. Being around a non drinker is threatening if you think you drink too much.

One thing that I have found myself doing is over compensating for being a non drinker. I don't want to be judged as no fun any more, so I stay up late with everyone, dance, say yes to everything, laugh extra loud - just to "prove" that I am just as much fun sober. Sometimes I want to be doing all of those things, but sometimes I just want to go home with a good book. As the months tick by, I find myself setting better boundaries, going home when I want, and not caring what others think. I am a people pleaser, so that has been a little more difficult for me, as caring what others think was a strong reason that I couldn't accept my alcoholism for so long.

I talked with my husband early on, and continue to do so. If I EVER drink again it will be a relapse and it would not be ok. I actually think he gets it, as he was with me during my final anxiety-ridden night of drinking, and I am pretty sure he didn't like what he saw...

Off to actually work on this day of working from home. I'm sure I'll be back later.

Pav

[Icanwithoutacan]

You sound a lot like me Pavati as far as the people pleasing and wanting to be "fun" still. I also found in my previous quit that I eventually started saying, "I'm going home" or just leaving. That was a good feeling although I still felt "left out"....I was ALWAYS the last to leave, etc.....Had brief thoughts of drinking tonight as well...."boy, wouldn't a beer be great before the football game". Pretty sure it would be 5 or 6 snuck and I would drive buzzed with my kids again, which I never did before but have done twice in the last month....YUCK..

[rednose]

Just checking in. Slept well last night, day 3 in the bank. Working on day 4.
I feel as if a fog has been lifted and I can see much better today.

Thanks for the post and support.

rednose :thanks: