Newbies Nest

[Twinkle79]

Oh, and just as I was feeling sorry for myself, I checked my facebook and saw a friend of a friend was diagnosed yesterday with cervical cancer. She is only 30. She split with her husband last year and has 2 little boys. Gave me some perspective, I can tell you.

[available]

Twinkle, i would call any drink a relapse if your intent is to be af. We can kid ourselves that one or two drinks is fine as we are not drinking what we were (i was a 2 bottle a day wine connoisseur) but at the end of the day it will never silence our al brain, we are feeding al and keeping it happy until something comes along and we say "fuck it" and we drink. If we have that drink then there is something missing in our plan that we have to figure out and work at. I have a son who is a recovering ICE addict and i know if he had one hit i would definitely classify that as a relapse in his ongoing recovery. Any addiction is the same, we have to stop feeding it completely to break the addiction.

If i had a drink now i would call that a relapse as i totally know that one drink will lead to more and i will be back to two bottles of wine a day, 7 days a week. I wont play russian roulette with my life anymore. I prefer to be totally sober and happy.

[Twinkle79]

True Ava, I see your point. Whatever it was, I definitely do not want to go back to feeling how I did. To finally have even a shred of self-esteem is worth way more to me than any drink.

[Lavande]

Good morning Nesters,

Very cold but the sun is up

Twinkle, don't beat yourself up, that's a waste of energy. Do know that when we decide to drink it is a choice whether we are conscious of it or not. Taking that choice off the table from now on is the only way to ensure your success. You can do it, lots of us have
I'm sorry about your friend's diagnosis, that is sad but hopefully it was caught early & she will make a full recovery. Be there for your friend while she needs support & ignore the mind chatter going on in your head!

Wishing everyone a fantastic AF Saturday!

Lav

[Elvis]

Good morning. Happy Saturday!

MossRose, good job on fighting off the cravings. I've sat out in the parking lot before, but I don't think I ever drove away, I always went in. It takes a strong person to do what you did. Don't you feel much better waking up this morning knowing you didn't drink last night? I wake up every morning and say I'm glad I didn't drink last night.

Have a great day everyone!

[Byrdlady]

I woke up with this song in my head....it set me thinking, take a read and see if you are interpreting it the same way. I wonder if clouds are AL?


"Both Sides Now"


Bows and flows of angel hair and ice cream castles in the air
and feather canyons everywhere, I've looked at clouds that way.
But now they only block the sun, they rain and snow on everyone.
So many things I would have done but clouds got in my way.


I've looked at clouds from both sides now,
from up and down, and still somehow
it's cloud illusions I recall.
I really don't know clouds at all.


Moons and Junes and ferris wheels, the dizzy dancing way that you feel
as every fairy tale comes real; I've looked at love that way.
But now it's just another show. You leave 'em laughing when you go
and if you care, don't let them know, don't give yourself away.


I've looked at love from both sides now,
from give and take, and still somehow
it's love's illusions that I recall.
I really don't know love at all.


Tears and fears and feeling proud, to say "I love you" right out loud,
dreams and schemes and circus crowds, I've looked at life that way.
But now old friends are acting strange, they shake their heads, they say
I've changed.
Something's lost but something's gained in living every day.


I've looked at life from both sides now,
from win and lose, and still somehow
it's life's illusions I recall.
I really don't know life at all.


I have looked at AL from both sides now myself. The more distance I get from it, the more respect I have for it. I have never seen a more powerful force....the only other one that comes close is love, and sometimes addiction trumps that. Never underestimate the power of addiction. All we have to do is NOT take that first drink! I can do that. Hope everyone has an easy day. Xo, Byrdie

[MossRose]

Good morning. And it is a good morning, even though I have a bit of a psychic hangover. But I am clear-headed and feeling good about how things played out last night. Elvis, I should have mentioned that while I sat in that parking lot, I thought it was a great time to text my sons about Thanksgiving plans. My youngest texted me back in less than a minute confirming that he would be there. That was what kept me strong. I won't go into any back history here, but believe me, this was a major milestone. And on a spiritual note, a sign. Two years ago, he would have ignored me. I realized at that moment what it would happen if I walked into that store.

Twinkle, sorry to hear you aren't sleeping well. STL has posted some excellent resources in the Holistic section. You can probably find something in there that will help. Just a shout out to STL for doing so much great research and bringing it all together for us. I refer to your posts often.

BF (and G-man), I can't imagine how hard it must be to have a job where drinking is the norm. Most of us alkys have the opposite situation. Work gets in the way of our drinking. It's so odd to look at it like that now, but I know it was always true for me. You definitely have to have stronger boundaries than most. This comment caught my attention:

But you guys are right about not letting people walk all over us. When I'm drinking I'll do anything for an easy life, as long as those drinks keep on coming. I guess I'll have to put my foot down for once in my life. BF

BF-This was my MO for years. Actually decades. I have been thinking a lot about this subject lately. In the last few months, I have managed to have a difficult, but important conversation with my mom, and even a couple of big disagreements with friends. This has never happened before. And I do mean never - at least with my friends. We've managed to avoid conflict over the course of our long friendships. So I was confused. Here I stop drinking and things are supposed to get easier with my loved ones, right? But it hasn't worked out like that.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, or scare anyone, because this story has a happy ending. But I had to experience the drama of last night to finally get it. What I have finally realized is that my relationships are becoming stronger, not weaker, because they are now authentic. My friend and I are still best friends even though we got angry with one another. It wasn't the end of the world. But it's still scary for me. I have always been afraid to speak my mind, say no, defend my boundaries for fear that people wouldn't like me anymore. And as you point out, BF, it was just "easier" to go along. I was wrong on all counts.

Stay strong everyone. Sorry for the rambling post. I just think it's critically important especially at the beginning to defend your quit, and your boundaries, with your life. They go hand-in-hand.

Enjoy your weekend. I plan on relaxing.

[okoren1]

Hi All,

After reaching my 100 days last week, I decided to treat myself to a little trip. Actually this was set up a couple of months ago, but just happened to coincide with the 100 AF days.

I arrived back in Colorado late last night from a sailing trip in the French West Indies. This was interesting. I was with 4 other guys, good friends of mine. On a sailboat, with close quarters, I really noticed everyone's drinking patterns. One guy clearly has a serious drinking problem, sad but also illuminating. In the old days, I probably would not have noticed. And,there was plenty of AL on the boat and also when we'd go ashore for dinners (St Maarten, St Barts, Anguilla, etc). With one or two of the guys, the drinking would start in the late morning, and more or less carry on till we turned in at night.

The guys would comment about the quality of the wines, and various other liquors we had on-board. I must admit, I had a few fleeting thoughts about having "just a taste", but when I observed, how s**t-faced some of them got, I was sooo happy to simply enjoy my Perrier and wake up refreshed and energetic.

The topic of my not-drinking came up once. Over dinner someone asked me why I wasn't drinking and my usual answer: "I quit because I feel better without it; alcohol and my body just don't get along". And one guy observed that when we had done a similar trip a couple of years ago, how much "I was really enjoying my wines then!!". Wow, this really struck me. I had very naively thought that since this was a drinking group, no one would have noticed my consumption. The fact that I evidently stood out made me feel ashamed and really gave me much greater resolve; I had no idea.

I came away with the thought that, if at least some of these guys had taken note, how many other people in my daily life had "noticed" my consumption in the old days? Really a sobering thought (pun, absolutely intended).

Good to be back!!

[Pavati]

Morning, Nest:

Happily reporting in from RAINY California. A drop in the bucket, so to speak, but it feels good to finally get some wet stuff.

Ava:

We are emotionally stunted with our drinking and i still am but i am coming into my age slowly but surely as you are Moss. Work through those feelings and if you can tell her how you feel sober then that is so much better than drunk. ... No one is worth drinking AT.

This is something I would never predicted. I just thought I was the way I was, but it turns out that I wasn't acting my age in a lot of my relationships, as I lacked confidence (again, I would NEVER have said that about myself before) to stick up for myself and be real. This was one of the many unexpected and totally amazing benefits of quitting drinking for me.

Just keep telling yourself, "I don't drink"....So when the thoughts hit you - like, he/she is driving me crazy or ugh they can drink and I can't just keep saying, "I don't drink so what can I do right now instead of drinking since I don't drink?" I did this on a girls' beach trip last year that I was terrified of going on and it worked wonders.

Ican - this is key. I had a very stressful week with work and some stuff with my son, but I actually didn't first think "I 'need' a drink." I thought - take deep breaths. Make sure you get exercise. Get sleep. Write in your journal. Hug your husband. Talk to a friend. All of the methods I have developed to deal with stress in a way that involves actually dealing with the problem, rather than avoiding it with a drink. There is empirical evidence that just three minutes in the morning and night of mindful breathing can produce health benefits. We don't NEED a drink.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, or scare anyone, because this story has a happy ending. But I had to experience the drama of last night to finally get it. What I have finally realized is that my relationships are becoming stronger, not weaker, because they are now authentic. My friend and I are still best friends even though we got angry with one another. It wasn't the end of the world. But it's still scary for me. I have always been afraid to speak my mind, say no, defend my boundaries for fear that people wouldn't like me anymore. And as you point out, BF, it was just "easier" to go along. I was wrong on all counts.

So true, Mossy! Conflict avoidance is not good for relationships! I think one reason my husband and I get along better now is that since I quit drinking, our conflicts can be handled in a reasonable way instead of the dramatic, emotional response I used to have. Because the conflicts are taken down a notch, we can negotiate our way through them much more easily. Congratulations on getting through that craving. Great job checking in here.

Way to go, Okoren - sounds like a fabulous trip. Twinkle, stay close this time.

I am home alone this weekend - normally a huge trigger for me. I would get some take out, sit on the couch, watch my shows and drink vodka drinks. Last night I did all of the above, but instead of the vodka it was sparkling water. It actually was BETTER because I remember all of my shows, and I am awake this morning full of energy to get things done, rather than just schlep around feeling like crap.

NPR posted a story on Facebook about a space in between moderate drinking and alcoholism that they called excessive drinking. Reading the comments was enlightening. What the story was saying was that even though the excessive drinkers were not alcoholics, they were subject to health problems as a result of their drinking, from liver problems to an increased chance of several types of cancer. The comments were people getting SO defensive about their drinking, and asking the author who she was to judge. The point was, even if you're not dependent on alcohol, years of scientific study (defining excessive drinking as more than 8 drinks a week for women and 15 for men) show health problems. Very frustrating for me when people disregard science, but really telling was how defensive people got about their own drinking.

OK, folks. I'm off to do some serious house cleaning while the family is away. Either that, or back under my covers with my book. Only time will tell...

Pav

And G, thanks for keeping track of my anniversary!

[Suek]

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, or scare anyone, because this story has a happy ending. But I had to experience the drama of last night to finally get it. What I have finally realized is that my relationships are becoming stronger, not weaker, because they are now authentic. My friend and I are still best friends even though we got angry with one another. It wasn't the end of the world. But it's still scary for me. I have always been afraid to speak my mind, say no, defend my boundaries for fear that people wouldn't like me anymore. And as you point out, BF, it was just "easier" to go along. I was wrong on all counts.

Stay strong everyone. Sorry for the rambling post. I just think it's critically important especially at the beginning to defend your quit, and your boundaries, with your life. They go hand-in-hand.

Enjoy your weekend. I plan on relaxing.[/QUOTE]

Hi MossRose,
Again, congrats on sticking to your plan and not giving in! Wonderful!
I think, that as alcoholics, our social development is not fully mature, and we have difficulty with saying no, confrontations, etc.
I know confrontations affect me more deeply than the average person.
AND yes, we can use that confrontation to have a drink to calm or negate the situation, but that is not going to help in the long run. There WILL be more confrontations! We all will have more bad days.
Having a firm resolve, and learning from situations, facing them head on, not expecting self-perfection, will help!

I am practicing saying "no" and feeling good when I remember to do so.
Even, wow, that was easy, and nothing bad happened!

Have a great AF weekend, everyone!

Suek

[MossRose]

Pav - I read that NPR article yesterday, and was quite amused by the comments. That one guy just wouldn't give up. He used every lame excuse in the book to defend his decision to drink, and to encourage others to do the same thing. I am so glad a real doctor weighed in and put AL abuse in its real context. The article didn't really surprise me. There's a whole lot of drinking going on out there.

Sue - Good for you for resolving to get past the need for "self-perfection." It is so damaging. I was raised to believe that "no" was a four-letter word. It was a different time, and women were expected to be always be nice. Strong emotions were not exactly encouraged. My parents were just a product of their upbringing, and meant me no harm. Thankfully, I interact with many younger women (and men) at work, and they have such a different, and refreshing attitude. It may not completely break the cycle of addiction, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Byrdlady]

Regarding the chat feature, it does say it is full but it isnt. Just click on it and you can tell if anyone is ther by going to the bottom of the page. Sometimes it helps to ANNOUNCE you are going over to chat on a thread. Its fun!! B

[Pinecone]

Hi Friends,

Moss, I'm glad you got through it! It is so much better to face a problem sober and actually take some action to resolve it. When stuff like that used to happen to me, I would avoid the problem completely which allows the problem to persist. Then become stressed out because the problem persists. Then begin to drink at the problem to reduce the stress. The problem was always there the next day, along with that rotten hangover, and I had done nothing about it but shorten my life. It takes a lot more guts to face a problem head on, but then we have actually done something about it. This is how life is supposed to be.

Okoren, I'm glad to read about your trip. I always thought I was flying under the radar, but I'm fairly certain now that I was noticeably drunk a lot of the time. Being AF is just so much more comfortable, like my favorite pair of pants.

Kensho, it's great to read that you are communicating well with your husband prior to your trip! Support is huge in our world. Have a great trip.

[Matt M.]

He all,
Just checking in, been a rough few days. The wife and I have been at each other's throats, mostly over bullshit that has been building and has come to a head. Our fights are few and far between with a sober me. I have had some pretty intense cravings, that's it, and I'm not going to cave in.
I had the thought that, " If we are going to argue like this I might well make the best of it and drink, and at least deserve to get bitched at"
I'm not acting in these feelings, Im not going to succumb to Al. I can't,
Just scares me, I don't think I have another quit in me.
I'll keep checking in, and I have been communicating with Ava via email.
Thanks

[available]

I had the thought that, " If we are going to argue like this I might well make the best of it and drink, and at least deserve to get bitched at"
I'm not acting in these feelings, Im not going to succumb to Al. I can't,

Commonly also known as "the fuck its"