Newbies Nest

[Byrdlady]

Morning, Nesters!
Quick check in before I settle in to the hard stuff (work!)

Sho, my nickname for The Beast is Dick Head, which is short for Addiction Head. It sort of takes some of its power away when you give it a ridiculous name (or it does for me).

Great to see everyone being strong, that's exactly what it takes! Happy Monday, all! Byrdie

[ShoshannaDreyfus]

I don't know why but when my husband is home I don't feel a desire to drink, I don't know if it's because if I've had a rough round with the kids or someone else ticks me off I can talk to him and the anxiety goes away or what it is. All I know is he has a very calming effect on me. I just need to learn how to take that and apply it to myself, to learn how to do this on my own. And he doesn't make me feel bad about this, he is very supportive and tries to help even though he doesn't understand. He's told me doesn't understand but at least he is trying to help and not berate me for it. But, it is very cold here today and it looks a lot like Winter is here to stay and Christmas on the way. Is anyone else avoiding the AF wine and beer as well? I don't even want to try that. To me it just seems pointless and a waste of money. I don't want to pretend to drink.

[Fin]

I'm not at all into the "AF" beer/wine. It's a tease.

[abcowboy]

MAE everyone! Another weekend in the books! It is so good to wake up each morning with a clear heart and mind! Another week of work ahead, I usually try to slow down my workload through December/January, but this year I took on extra work to keep myself busy and minimize my alone time!

Sho, having an understanding and supportive spouse is a blessing to me as well, my Bubba (my wife Irene) is my sounding board when I need to clear my head. She never judges, but is always supportive and has a few words for me to help me deal with my struggles. AF drinks? What would be the point? I didn't drink because I liked the taste, or to be sociable, I drank to get drunk! No point in just teasing myself, so I stay away from any reminders.

For me...

H hunger, then I eat, not drink...peanuts, an apple or pear, bag of chips, whatever....just eat...
A angry, tough one for me, but learning to step back, Serenity Prayer, Let go and let God, His will not mine
L lonely, surround myself with supportive people, spend more time with Bubba and Hank, just don't isolate
T tired, go to bed - simple! No matter what time of day, stop and get some rest! Read a good book, post on MWO, just clear the mind and relax

And looking at the clock, I'd better get my butt into the shower lol! Have a great day everyone! So great to see so many eggs hatching in the nest, new lives being born everyday... To those not mentioned, you're in my thoughts as well! Remember, no drinkin' or druggin' eh!

[ShoshannaDreyfus]

Thank you, and you are right. Having a supporting spouse really does make all the difference. I couldn't imagine how much harder this would be if I had someone who was always critical of me, if I slipped up and made the situation even worse. When that happens I beat myself up so bad I feel bad for days as it is. I've been eating a lot, and really I don't care. If I end up having to lose weight later on atleast it will be over actual food consumed and not calories from alcohol. Still better in the long run.

[daisy45]

I just PM'd a member and was saying that as a single mum I did not have that other adult at home to feel accountable to, which could be partly why things got progressively worse. Or maybe not having the support and comfort of a partner.....not really sure...
Now my kids are young adults, there is no hoodwinking any more. They are on to me. I have to think of the future when grandkids come my way. My children know too much about me and it could be an issue.
Feeling good today....a few thoughts yesterday and got a bit down but thought it all through and okay.

[KENSHO]

I drank last night. I don't know why. I don't know why. Did I say I don't know why? I feel terrible right now. I really, really like the me that doesn't drink. I am not a fuck up. I am not a stupid person. I am strong. But I am impatient and indulgent. I am amazed by the power of this substance. I do not concede. Go to hell alcohol. All you do is rob me of my energy, self-respect and progress.

[ShoshannaDreyfus]

I drank last night. I don't know why. I don't know why. Did I say I don't know why? I feel terrible right now. I really, really like the me that doesn't drink. I am not a fuck up. I am not a stupid person. I am strong. But I am impatient and indulgent. I am amazed by the power of this substance. I do not concede. Go to hell alcohol. All you do is rob me of my energy, self-respect and progress.

I really like the me that doesn't drink too. No, you're not a fuck up. I get those moments where I just get tired of the internal struggle of 'yes' and 'no' and have a 'fuck it' moment and do the same thing. Then, like you I feel like shit all the next day and sometimes depending how stupid I was it could last a few days. I hate the way it makes me feel about myself. You know this will pass. Do you remember what that one moment you had that made you think it was a good idea to get that bottle? Try to remember that moment and the next time it comes think about how you feel now. I don't have a lot of advice, I've tried as many times as I've failed but I'm still not giving up. We're all worth the work it takes to get where we want to be. ((hugs))

[Rahulthesweet]

Hello Nesters,

When u r rich, drive around in S clas, play golf in expensive golf courses a cross the world, related to royal family, stay in 7 stars, have expensive food, fly first class, drink only most expensive wines, dine with selected few people ...

We I had the honour of hosting someone from Thailand tpday. Actually an old royal couple who have come here. So at dinner table I had to disappoint them sorry I dont drink!!

Well ypunmaybe a royalty ... I am not ... Heck.... I am an alcoholic .... Who takes pride in my sobriety and no one NOONE is worth giving that up! So sorry I can give you company ...

Now fortunately that is not a customer of mine I sometime do wonder if that would have been an important customer would I feel the same ?

Hell yes I will.... I dont smoke, I dont take cocoaine , and I dont drink. !

Cheers !!!

[NoSugar]

I get those moments where I just get tired of the internal struggle of 'yes' and 'no' and have a 'fuck it' moment and do the same thing.

Hi, Sho

This doesn't mean you're weak or bad; your brain can only take so much.

Marc Lewis writes about it in Memoirs of an Addicted Brain, as quoted here.

Addicts are commonly thought to possess very poor self-control. “Why do you keep eating candy when you know it will make you sick and make you gain weight?” “Why do you keep shooting drugs when you keep landing in jail and your wife is about to divorce you?” Why can’t addicts just exercise a little self-control and STOP already??? The truth is, addicts are exercising enormous amounts of self-control...

She has no more energy to fight the craving. Psychologists call this “ego depletion.” Marc Lewis explains it like this, as he discusses how he had to keep saying “no” to the morphine that called to him from the fridge in the lab where he worked:

“It’s a choice I have to keep making again and again, every time I pass the fridge, every time its raucous hum cuts into my reverie, every time the image of Sharon’s anger ignites my anxieties. Again and again and again. But so what? Once you make a decision, why would it be so hard to make the same decision again? Any addict will tell you: it just is. But psychologists have a name for the problem: ego depletion or ego fatigue. In doing routine chores, the brain uses up a fantastic amount of energy – more than the rest of the body combined….When the (brain) has to keep working to control an impulse, one that keeps recurring, or just won’t go away, it uses up its supply of energy. It can’t replenish its store of neurotransmitters. It gets tired. Very much like a muscle. Try holding your arm out at your side for half an hour. It’s pretty easy for the first five minutes, but it gets harder and harder after that. Just a simple physical action, maintained too long, soon exhausts the resources that made it possible.”

That is why will-power is not enough. You've got to put a lot of other systems in place, keep them there, and use them. This is hard enough without making it more difficult for ourselves than it needs to be.

If you're interested, Mr. G. posted a link to a short TED talk that Marc Lewis gave in the Online Media Toolbox thread and here is a longer one that I'm about half way through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBPBcJlZlsA. He explains ego depletion in a really understandable way and also gives a great visual analogy connecting drug taking and addiction with what happens when ivy starts growing on a wall.

[Fin]

Hi, Sho

This doesn't mean you're weak or bad; your brain can only take so much.

Marc Lewis writes about it in Memoirs of an Addicted Brain, as quoted here.



That is why will-power is not enough. You've got to put a lot of other systems in place, keep them there, and use them. This is hard enough without making it more difficult for ourselves than it needs to be.

If you're interested, Mr. G. posted a link to a short TED talk that Marc Lewis gave in the Online Media Toolbox thread and here is a longer one that I'm about half way through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBPBcJlZlsA. He explains ego depletion in a really understandable way and also gives a great visual analogy connecting drug taking and addiction with what happens when ivy starts growing on a wall.

I really like this guy (Dr. Marc Lewis) in the TedTalk. He was in the video I mentioned over the weekend.

Kensho, please-please keep at it. Just showing up today took a lot of courage and you're heading off going down the toilet for some long period of time before getting back onboard. Get back onboard and try, try again!! The last time I caved after + one week of AF days logged, it took me 18 months to come back. That was after one sip of wine. Whoa...stay close!

[NoSugar]

Your link to that panel discussion is what got me interested in Marc Lewis, Fin - Thanks.

I had looked at some of his work a couple years ago but didn't think I needed to know all that "brain stuff". As it turns out, the more I understand what is going on and why, the easier it is for me to accept and to put into action all the things needed to stay AF.

One thing I really like about his take on all of this is not looking at addiction as a disease per se (which is one problem I have w/ Kevin McCauley's work). Lewis explains how addiction is an aberration of a normal process - learning. He calls it accelerated learning because of how fast the pathways develop (thanks to the addictive properties of alcohol and our receptive physiology/biochemistry). And just like we can't unlearn other things that we learn really well and that become second nature, we can't unlearn this. But we can avoid it.

[okoren1]

Hi All,

I have a slightly contrarian view on the Holiday Season. I am looking forward to it, and even welcome being around social drinkers. I know this sounds a little weird.

Mrs. Oko and I have been invited to a host of various Holiday functions-some of which we've already attended, others to come.

As I walk in, I already know in advance that while I am there, I am going to enjoy some type of tasty AF drinks, so it's no big deal- I don't feel any temptations. What is interesting, is watching others drink (frequency, amounts of consumption, etc). As a non-drinker, I've become very aware of the consumption patterns by others. I find this to be very therapeutic and helpful in my non-drinking journey. I see how "normal" people attend these parties and drink. What I see is the VAST number of people I observe, drink very moderately, and yet enjoy the party or dinner very much, just like I did.

For instance, we attended a dinner party last evening with about 5 other couples. The host couple really enjoys fine wines and various liquors. So, with each course, there was a wine-pairing and then various liqueurs to finish things off. With each course, a comment might be made about how a certain wine complemented that dish we were enjoying. Most people took a sip or two, with their food, commented on the wine and that was about it. There were at least 4 or 5 wines served, and yet most people had pretty full glasses left at the end of each course.

I am learning, by example, that most people don't need to rely on AL as an important part of their social party/dinner experience. This is the way normal folks operate and it's good to see them in action.

BY STARK CONTRAST, I can remember my last year's Holiday experiences. I was pretty much oblivious to what anyone else was drinking. All I knew was I wanted to get hammered and the more I could drink either at the event, (or slightly in advance as a warm-up) the better. All the glasses of wine, etc. placed in front of me were finished in very short order.

Point is, that after my firm decision to quit, and after reaching some sustained level of sobriety, I find it helpful and in fact educational, to re-orient my way back into normal social occasions, and see how other people handle this stuff. All the time knowing that I will forever be the outlier because I do not have an "off button" when it comes to AL, therefore I simply don't drink and that's just fine. We all enjoyed each others company, the other guests had some AL, I didn't, but we all had a great time together.

On the darker side, on one occasion, I did observe an individual who was drinking way too much- I felt sorry for the person and yet it once again made me feel grateful for my ability to quit.

[Fin]

Your link to that panel discussion is what got me interested in Marc Lewis, Fin - Thanks.

I had looked at some of his work a couple years ago but didn't think I needed to know all that "brain stuff". As it turns out, the more I understand what is going on and why, the easier it is for me to accept and to put into action all the things needed to stay AF.

One thing I really like about his take on all of this is not looking at addiction as a disease per se (which is one problem I have w/ Kevin McCauley's work). Lewis explains how addiction is an aberration of a normal process - learning. He calls it accelerated learning because of how fast the pathways develop (thanks to the addictive properties of alcohol and our receptive physiology/biochemistry). And just like we can't unlearn other things that we learn really well and that become second nature, we can't unlearn this. But we can avoid it.

Yes, exactly. I also loved this from the panel discussion starting at timestamp 18:08 where they discuss an addict's mindset when choosing to take another hit/drink and all the way through her answer about why she doesn't drink now after 25 yrs of sobriety. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtUF8mqrzM

[available]

Kensho sorry you fucked up but the writing was on the wall. You did not post here like you were doing, you let those al thoughts in and let them consume you and you didnt share how you were feeling. If we dont pull out every single plan we have, especially at this time of year we will fail. The "stupid season" is just that. We will always be put into situations where there is al, its a part of life, we need to learn how to cope with it around us and if that means not putting ourselves in that situation then dont do it. If you were thinking about a sip then you should have posted or not gone to that party. There will always be other parties to go, other social events when you are stronger. As i said yesterday it took me 7 to 8 months for those al thoughts to be not as powerful. This is a lifelong journey being sober, its not 30 days, 100 days, 200 days, it is forever. Ask for support, take it and use it. We are not here for the fun of it, we are here to help. I took every ounce of help from the people on here plus a bit more when i stopped drinking and i still do. The oldies seem to have a sixth sense of who is walking a fine line but what can we do to help? We post the advice, we will email, pm, we will do everything we can but at the end of the day we are not the ones putting al in our mouths.

I gave up on 1/12/13, there was al at xmas time and parties but i always told my children how i felt, they even wiped spilt wine off the table for gods sakes. I was thinking "you dont need to do that" but they right at that stage i would have licked the table clean. I came on here and posted or read. I went to thailand for 2 weeks after 60+ days, i spent a fortune on internet access and i was on here for hours. I felt stupid as i thought i should have been out more but i knew i would have drank, i pulled out every bit of my plan. I went on holidays with mwoers and i will never ever regret that as i am sober. I got to spend time with mum, who i hated, she did not talk about my not drinking but in a big way she helped me also as i thought "i will prove you wrong". during that time we started our journey in rebuilding our relationship. We have all done big things and not drank, why are we different? We accepted we cant drink, we fought with every ounce of being we had, we asked for support, we posted on here, we did not hide these feelings as they wont go away alone.

Al will always win if we let it in to our thoughts eventually. What i needed to realise when i began this journey was to listen and learn from the successful ones on here. There was a reason they succeeded and there was a reason why i kept on failing, i had to really look into myself and find out why. Thank god i did.