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    Hi, Everyone:

    Great conversation here. A nest friend drinking always sets off a bunch of varied opinions on what happened, how to react, and what to say.

    Here are my two cents.

    If you want to quit alcohol, it is VERY hard. You have to work VERY HARD to stay sober. There are many, many, many reasons why people quitting an addiction relapse, and relapse is common for addicts. HOWEVER, just because it happens, doesn't mean it will certainly happen to you. There are steps you can take to ensure that it doesn't.

    1. Put your quit before everything else. Before work, a holiday party, a family event. If you need to call in sick, call in sick. If you need to be 15 minutes late because you have to check in, check in. If you need to leave early, leave early.

    2. Read up on relapse. The evidence shows that relapses happen in many stages, only the last of which is the actual drinking. You can see signs of relapse from a mile away if you know what to look for. I was so determined to avoid it, that I read about relapse over and over. Are you pulling away from support? Tired and irritable? Feeling sorry for yourself for having to quit? Anxious? Romanticizing alcohol, or happy times with alcohol? Saying "just one" or "I wasn't that bad?" Those could be signs of an impending relapse. If you see relapse coming, stop, drop everything, and do what you need to do to regain your focus. Exercise. Meditate. Go to a meeting. Go to a counselor. Post on MWO. Read an article on what to do when you see a relapse coming. Read your first few posts here and remember why you quit. I had STRONG drinking thought just two weeks ago - nearly a year after I quit. I believe this will continue to happen, so I will remain vigilant!

    3. Read up on denial. This was a surprise to me, how much denial I was in. A Bubble Hour host says she wasn't in denial about the behavior, just the rationale for why. You can overcome denial with honest acceptance that you can never drink again, and that will make all the difference. The Bubble Hour show on denial is an excellent listen, especially if you see signs of a relapse coming (see #2). As they say in the intro: "Denial is a defense mechanism that allows a person – despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary – to deny that something is true, when in fact, it is true. It is one of the most powerful and difficult problems that Alcoholics and Drug Addicts face before, during, AND after treatment, because it is always the thinking that precedes the act of picking up a drink or a drug."

    4. If none of the above works, and you drink, by all means, come back as soon as possible. What Frances describes is exactly what Scottish Lass talks about - we brace ourselves for the big events, and it is a small sideways loophole that our addicted brains find to drink. When you come back you will get hugs, admonitions, advice, and a lot of talk. That's ok. That's why we're here.

    I believe that's more than two cents, but there you go.

    As my friend would say, tighten it up, Kensho and Frances, tighten it up. Reformulate your plans. Love yourselves, and don't drink no matter what.

    Pav

    Comment


      abcowboy,

      Thank you for reaching out to me. When I started on this site, I knew I wanted to no longer drink as often or as much as I was (2-4 drinks per night). I have done that, consuming about 15 drinks in 5 months. I am proud of that and I have learned amazing things about myself. I don't believe that I have failed just because I consumed 3 drinks last night. Failing would be leaving and going back to my old behaviors.

      I have always been a DIY'er - I listen, take notes, think for myself, and try things until I arrive at an understanding that makes sense to me. I've experimented (more than once with different variables) with whether I can or should or still want to have any alcohol at all. I've had to overcome what the social stigma meant for me - with people I didn't know, as well as those closest to me. And I did. I've had to learn how to not reach for a drink at every discomfort. I did.

      The most recent pieces for me have been the "Can I really not have any at all?" (ok, that one bas been a bit repetitive), and the overwhelming stress of my current business. It is clear to me now that one drink seems to always lead me to wanting more - done - check - got it. If I ever ask that again, smack the stupid out of me. The bigger issue is learning how to de-stress and not push myself so hard with continual midnight-2am work nights when the load gets heavy. I will have to struggle until I learn how to do that. I started my business on a wing and a prayer and the belief that I would do whatever it took to succeed - but I realize now that I need to revise that. Sobriety needs to come first. I have a good reputation and I get work on word of mouth, but I HAVE to put my quit before my clients, even if it means I risk losing them. It's not an easy one for me, but I am willing and ready to learn.

      My point is that this has been an evolution for me. I have not been banging my head against the wall, I have been learning. I have not blacked out and disappeared for months - I have come right back in hopes that I can fully grasp how to deal with this disease among others who are doing the same. I have taken a lot of steps forward and a few back. And I can honestly say that I've learned enough that I could never go back to what I was doing.

      It's very clear to me now that drinking any alcohol is not going to be an option for me if I want the life that I want. I understand that I need to be alcohol-free, now and in the future. It rips holes in my best self. I don't need it, and I will learn to leave it behind forever. I will keep reading about tools and keep them close. I will keep learning about the biochemistry and nutrition and, most importantly for me, stress. I will not promise that I won't ever have a bad day, but I can say for sure that I will keep working at this until I am at peace with it. That's my personality. AL is on my shit list and I'm going to get rid of it - that's how I roll. But it might not be overnight. And if its okay with you, I would like to be here - where others understand how hard this is. I appreciate opinions, a swift kick in the ass and my heart warms at the support. This has been the most baffling thing I have ever encountered - that I can want something that I know is bad for me. I may be a hard case, but I will not give up. I hope you don't give up on me either.

      Cross Pavati - great list. Thank you.
      Last edited by KENSHO; December 8, 2014, 11:52 PM.
      Kensho

      Done. Moving on to life.

      Comment


        MR i hope your brothers operation went well today. I am thinking of you. Robert is doing so well after his major surgery, we are just dealing with life day by day and appreciating life. He has his prostate, bowel and bladder out so his op was major also. never lose hope MR.

        Kensho you can do this. Plan and plan and post and post and learn to say no. You will get there. It makes me sad and angry what al does to peoples lives and this time of year especially "sucks balls". Walk away from al, hide and come on mwo, smell the flowers and enjoy life. Protect your quit at all costs.
        AF free 1st December 2013 - 1st December 2022 - 9 years of freedom

        Comment


          i have been terrified of going through withdrawal….so looked into detox for a few days…but then kept thinking about it and how that may feel like a punishment and decided I needed to do this on my own, if possible. and so last night, instead of drinking myself to oblivion, I had 2 drinks with no symptoms. So, tonight, I won't have anything to drink….today will be my day 1. reading all of these posts has been very very helpful…Thanks nesters!!!!

          Comment


            Originally posted by abcowboy View Post
            I've changed enough diapers in my time to know when it's time to tell them to learn to use the toilet, I've had more than enough pm's from those who are afraid to post because of this, I will keep my thanks on the 24 hour club and the gratitude thread
            im confused, what is it are you saying?

            Comment


              embrace, dont right off the offer of detox completely, see how you go. if i read correctly you drink 1 1/2 bottles of wine a day? you should be ok but you will get that voice in your head. tell it to eff off. get some food in, af drinks, change your routine even if only slightly. watch some distracting films, or even some youtube stuff on alkies. good luck for tonight, you can do it.

              Comment


                Good morning everyone, Day 5. Woke up this morning feeling a little anxious and I've been clenching my jaws so I know I'm feeling a little of stress right now. Yesterday and last night was a tough one with the kids and I am due for a break. Thankfully my parents are taking them this weekend so my husband and I can get out together and spend some time alone for my Birthday. And I have to say, that is the best present I could get! Today I am really going to have to work at keeping away from the liquor store because waking up full of anxiety made me think of it right away. I'm not a morning drinker at all. I've done way back in the day when I really hit rock bottom and thankfully those times are many years behind me, I'm more of a 3 o'clock on person. But I don't even want to do that today. I know as the day gets on the thoughts will get stronger so I'm going to try to keep her as much as I can.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by roxane View Post
                  embrace, dont right off the offer of detox completely, see how you go. if i read correctly you drink 1 1/2 bottles of wine a day? you should be ok but you will get that voice in your head. tell it to eff off. get some food in, af drinks, change your routine even if only slightly. watch some distracting films, or even some youtube stuff on alkies. good luck for tonight, you can do it.
                  thanks roxane
                  i am determined so if no withdrawals that are horrifying, i think i can do this on my own. I have done it before…..only this time i KNOW FOR SURE that I am an alcoholic…..or at least, it feels much more permanent somehow this time around. I woke up this morning without a hangover for the first time in MONTHS. what a huge motivator!!! but I know the urge will come and when it does, i will come on here and post post post post read read read read :happy2:

                  I just won't anymore

                  Comment


                    Great post Pav! Really helpful.
                    Kensho, I could have written your post......keep going and keep going until it's done.
                    I think getting past the denial and reaching acceptance are the main components of finally getting sober for good. This is the one thing that seems to be universal. Everybody who has got sober , when they do, probably wonder at why they themselves didn't get it earlier......just as each of us has to accept our own journey for what it is....
                    I wish I could say I never drank, but I did. That I am 4 years sober....I am not, but I am wiser, had more sober time than in the last 10 years and know that I will be sober for life....
                    Feeling better today.....day 9 . Sitting up far too late at night but working on changing this. Asleep around 4am and up at 8am....that and a walk should make me tired enough to get to bed earlier.
                    IT'S NEVER TOO LATE TO BE WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN
                    Relapse starts long before the drink is drunk!!.Fresh Start!

                    Comment


                      Good morning Nesters,

                      Stay close to the nest today embrace
                      Check in frequently & let us know how you are doing! You are taking back control of your life & that's the best decision ever!

                      Sho, great on 5 AF days!
                      What's on your plan to handle anxiety? Meditation works great for me. Do you have Rx meds or use OTC herbals or teas? Don't forget to look in the Tool box too!

                      Wishing everyone a good AF Tuesday!

                      Lav
                      AF since 03/26/09
                      NF since 05/19/09
                      Success comes one day at a time :thumbs:

                      Comment


                        Shoshanna I find hot tea is relaxing. There are several destressing ones available. Some yoga stretches work well for me too. Walking outside if possible.
                        Embrace you can do it. No hangover is just the best feeling. I still love waking up and realizing I am not sick from drinking. Especially the weekends when the whole day is free and open.
                        Kensho that was great. Yes learning to not push our limits is so very important to us.
                        Pav that was great advice. I have been feeling a bit sorry for myself. Not on the drinking front, but I am working on it because I think self pity is a bad road to go down. I need to practice gratitude a bit more.
                        No matter how far you go or how fast you run, you can't get away from yourself. ....said at an AA meeting. It stuck with me.

                        Comment


                          Pav,
                          What an awesome post! Would you consider putting that in the Tool Box for us to grab in the future?
                          Embrace, it sounds like you are ready to lose a huge burden, the load of addiction is heavy, but you've got friends here to help you do it. Each day your steps will be easier! We'll be right here with you.

                          You know, it's a fine line as to how to react when someone falls. I know from bitter experience that NO ONE feels worse than the party of the first part. When I fell, I was nearly inconsolable (except by MORE AL). I didn't want to hear that tomorrow was another day, I'd done great anyway, and that it didn't matter in the scheme of things. I did not want to be stroked and everything made better. I also didn't want to get beaten up by others with all their AF time (after all, how could it have been THIS hard for them?). What I needed was HELP and SUPPORT. I did not need to be enabled anymore. I needed someone to show me how to improve what I was doing wrong. I found that here. I thank my lucky stars for LAV, who HELPED me up. She didn't judge me or kick me when I was down, she showed me the way. That is what I try to do, if it came off as anything else I sincerely apologize. I'm NOT going to give anyone a pass on falling, because it isn't ok (we are one drunk away from hurting ourselves or someone we love)...that's not why we came here (to learn to be better drinkers) we came here to get out of the pit of addiction. It isn't always pretty as I came to learn, but even the most resistant case (ME) finally saw the writing on the wall. Even I finally got it!

                          It is a delicate balancing act of what to do when a nester falls....this is not a thread where we are going to enable you, we are going to empower you. Byrdie
                          All you gotta do, is get thru this day. AF 1/20/2011
                          Tool Box
                          Newbie's Nest

                          Comment


                            Kensho, frances- I think sometimes we forget why we quit or tried to quit in the first place. After a small period of sobriety, I think we convince ourselves that it was never that bad. I posted this suggestion on another thread a few weeks ago, and I do this myself, but it might help to remind yourself of the pain of AL by making it obvious to yourself. I have a copy of my 1st post here (and 1 from another forum I no longer post on) about the pain I felt when I drank, the pain it caused others around me and the pain I knew I would have again next time I drank. I have that copy pasted in my closet where I get dressed every morning to remind me of the PAIN of AL (its high enough where my kids would not see it, but my wife actually loves it). I have another copy folded up in my glove box in my car, and one more in my wallet (smaller print). Why we drink or drank is not even important in the big picture.....why we don't drink is the real focus…it always leads to PAIN. We all basically came here because the pain was real...it will be real every time...remind yourself of that every day. I hope you never have to feel you need to crawl away from anything ever again…you won’t need to because you don’t want to put yourself through the pain. Nothing good ever comes of drinking…keep that fresh in your mind.

                            Hope everyone else is having a great reduced stress, positive AF day.
                            “Hope is being able to see that there is light despite all of the darkness”- Desmond Tutu


                            STL

                            Comment


                              GMAE to all. I feel like I'm finally beating down the sinus crapola that has placed my head in a vice for the past week. And yeah I've been fighting the urge to be a seriously whiny biatch at times thanks to this, but who knew the over-the-counter meds out there that can actually make you feel better when sick?! My wife told me to be normal for a change (huh?) and take some damn medicine to get over this. I thought we had been over the I'm not normal thing, but ok, I listened and somewhat strangely felt better...

                              When I was drinking, I shied away from taking any meds unless it got to the point of antibiotics. I told myself and others that I'm not a pilltaker - bullshit! I was afraid of blowing out my liver and inflicting further damage. It was ok to keep drinking and doing that damage, but I couldn't possibly take medicine that would help me feel better. The excuses we make and the shit we shovel is almost humorous.

                              I'm far happier taking the recommended dosage and not having to read the warning label now about "if you drink alcohol while taking this medicine"...I think I'm weirdly enjoying that I can be sick and sober. :egad:

                              Comment


                                Morning nesters

                                Early start, peak hour terrible at the moment but thats life. God only knows how i drove everyday to work hungover and how i never had an accident. Now i am just tired but thats okay. Im not sure my sleeping has improved on this journey but thats okay, i have to accept that 6 hours sleep is all i need.

                                my friend Robert is doing so well but they want to either send him home or move him to rehab hospital. he cant go home, he cant bend over to change his bags and his bf is a useless twat. Rehab is full of old people and so much further away from my work. he is pretty distraught but the fighting Linda has come to the fore yet again. I will never give up in what i believe in and that is Robert and his welbeing and you guys not drinking.

                                Xmas throws us so much temptation its terrifying. I remember last year and i was manic, wanting a drink, needing a drink, thinking 'fark it" i will have one (100) and start again. What made me think was posting on here and reading and telling it how it was. There is always someone around, always someone to listen and always someone to tell you what you need or dont need to hear. i could walk away from mwo as a lot of us could but we dont as we hope we can help someone to stop drinking, to me if one person can get and stay sober there is no better feeling. So many people come and go and its not because we scare them off, its because they are not ready to stop or feel insecure. We want to prevent the 'fark its" and get you newbies to give it all, as we know you will never ever regret being sober and everyone is worth it.

                                I always wondered how Byrd and Lav could be bothered taking so much time out of their day to be on here but thats because they care and everyday they never stop caring. They showed me love when i didnt think i was worthy of it or attention or anything, they showed me that i could not do it by myself but they would hold my hand and walk with me. They still wont bloody let go and i dont want them too.

                                take care
                                AF free 1st December 2013 - 1st December 2022 - 9 years of freedom

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