Newbies Nest

[abcowboy]

Byrdie and Moss, I'll throw one more log on the fire. My ex and I divorced after 20 years and 4 children, it wasn't over AL, but over finances. Her giving me the boot was the best thing that happened to me. I now have the love of my life beside me, and "our" children have accepted her with open arms and hearts, and they agree that she is the best thing that happened to me. Just one more example that clouds do indeed have a silver lining, we just need to look for it..

[Lizann]

Don't usually come here, but I am reading around. I am so sorry for you Hanna! Lots of good advice here. Does he know you are trying to quit? This is a struggle for all involved. My husband is supportive, my son and sister are so angry with me. The pain and worry we cause our loved ones has to be repaired. I for one, am taking it one day at a time, just being sober. Proving I am trying. I am doing it for me and for them. Words no longer pull much weight. I wish you strength and courage in you sobriety. Keep us posted, I will check in here to see how it goes!

[Overit-still]

Hanna-great advice and insight, I agree with all of them and have nothing additionsl to say. Just do this for yourself, you've got to take control. You know well I was in the same boat AND I've got a lot to prove and repair. Hang in there, we are always here for you. Hugs.

[Lavande]

Good evening Nesters,

Hanna, I hope you read & give all the responses here some careful thought.
MossRose's words reminded me so much of what I went through - very similar situations. It's really difficult to repair that kind of damage but not impossible. I agree with NS, you have to remain focused on yourself & your quit right now. It takes two to make a marriage, what is your husband doing to repair things? I sure he is not completely without fault. Tossing out threats to leave is not what I consider 'helping'. Every human on the planet needs to work a bit on self-improvement, don't you think? Please stay close to the nest because were are here to support you :hug:

Ava, try not to think about the work piling up while you are on vacation. OK?

Wishing everyone a safe & cozy night in the nest!!! Good luck at your trade show Byrdie!!

Lav

[Hanna]

I can't begin to thank you all for your kind words of support. First, I am sober.

The thing that is so hard is, yes, I think he knows how hard I am trying. Actually, I know he knows how hard I am trying. But, from his point of view, I have been trying for a very long time, and he has no faith. I get that. What upsets me so, is that I did not realize he was even thinking of leaving the marriage. While it could be the wake-up call that I needed, he says that he is in a place that he cannot tell me which way he wants to go, as in, Does he want to give me this chance? Or is he done? He says he is not sure. This has put me in a position in which I feel as though I am begging, and I am not liking that at all. I keep asking him if he has made a decision. I ask him "if the one big issue is the drinking, and I am telling you I am done, why would you not give me this chance?" But, he says he is not sure, that he is just wavering.

I finally told him I felt like I was begging him and it was pathetic, and went upstairs and had a good cry (but again). I so wanted him to come up and comfort me. I do feel pathetic. And yes, his talking to this woman really gets me angry. I do think if he cannot talk to me, he could have done other things, such as: get on this site, go to al-anon, get a therapist. I told him as much. Not to mention he is her boss. Ugh, don't get me started on that.

So, I am begging, pathetic, and also angry. I understand completely why he is so frustrated with me. Truthfully, if he were willing to stick around to see me stay sober, I would break down and apologize profusely for all I have put him through. I did not really understand how much this hurt him. But, the way we are now, I am just in a place where I have so many feelings, and my sense of confidence in myself is in the toilet. This is my husband. Outside of this big, stinking drinking issue, I have been a good and supportive wife. I was never an angry or neglectful wife.

So, I agree with both byrd and moss here. I am trying to walk in his shoes. I get it. I just wish he were trying to walk in mine as well. In hindsight, the (almost) month sober I had in Feb. were frustrating for me, in that I did not feel he was particularly supportive. I wonder now if he was already thinking we were over. I wonder now if his "wavering" isn't just his waiting to "catch" me again so he can say "see, I knew it, we are over". I don't know rambling now.

Well, if my last statement has any truth to it, he will be wavering a long time. Because I am done. I also told him that if we are over, and I have the chance to find someone else, they will get the benefit of having me sober. Ok, that came out of feeling pissed....

Anyway, thank you all so much. I have a rough road ahead, no matter what happens. I have shared openly with my sister. She is the only one in "real" life I can talk to. About all of it. She is an angel.

Night all. Love you guys!

[LavenderBlue]

Hey all; so turns out my wrist is mostly ok but still cranky about typing for too long. Oh, well; sometimes it takes more time than I want to give it.

Going out shopping with my mom wound up being a really good thing. I hadn't realized how just BLAH I was getting with the weather being so crappy. Just getting out and doing something really made a difference. Same goes for today, I'd gotten out of the habit of walking but I made myself go out and what-do-you-know it got me moving and out of my head!

G - Thanks so much for what you wrote; that was lovely and made so much sense to me! I'm trying to find that balance where I'm not overwhelmed or wallowing, but I'm not blocking everything out either. I used to know how to do that, so it's a little scary and a little exciting to start being able to again. Also YAY YOU on 90 days! *happy dance*

Hanna - Since I'm not married, I'm really hesitant to try to give any advice. But I can send you love, and support, and tell you that it's perfectly fine if you need to vent. I've had to vent about things other than just drinking sometimes because sometimes those feelings got caught up in my quitting feelings and that's what I was sorting, darnit! I think you've had some great advice from other folks here, too. I guess the only thing I'd add would be as the daughter of a couple that did split up because of my dad's drinking. As I got older, I learned that the drinking was the big reason, but they were having a lot of other issues as well - maybe without his drinking they could have fixed them, maybe they couldn't. I spent some time mad at my dad for putting my mom in a spot where she had to leave him, since I know it hurt her a lot. And I spent some time mad at my mom for not giving him another chance. But I know that they both did the best they could, and in my heart I know the best you can do is the best you can do. I guess I'm like Byrdie there; I feel for everyone in the situation, it sucks from all sides. And to add to the others saying your quit is the priority, as hard as I know that is. And not so much to prove to him you can do it, but because it's what *you* need no matter where things go. Sending hugs and support, and hoping I haven't said anything foolish!

[Pavati]

Hi, All:

Hanna - sorry you're having such a hard time with your DH. My two cents - different but my experience - I talked a lot about my marriage with one of my best friends who happens to be a married man. It was great for me to get his perspective from a male/dad/husband point of view, AND he was a great friend to me. That may be different from the situation you mentioned, but I wanted to defend opposite gender confidantes.

Also - I am wondering if you ever talked about Al Anon or anything else with him? I went to an Al Anon meeting earlier in my marriage when my husband was smoking pot. I was pretty afraid and had no idea what to expect. I have not found that asking for help is a very American male trait - maybe he doesn't know what to do? What if you sit down and explain some things to him?

And all that aside - if he is being an asshole, I agree with everyone else - you and your quit have to come first.

Well, more than two cents, I guess.

Lil - a workout until you barf sounds like it is just what the doctor ordered. Will the zamboni pick it up?

Fin?! We miss you. Matt?! Jennie!? Daisy?! I don't hit many other threads, so maybe you're somewhere else?

Good night, folks. A lot of drama around Pav's house these days. Taking a lot of deep breaths, getting my exercise, and making sure I get myself some sleep. No WAY will I turn to alcohol - that would just f%$k things up more.

Pav

[Lavande]

Good morning Nesters,

It's Tuesday & super cloudy, oh well. I'm still dreaming of spring

Hanna, I truly hope you get more cooperation from your husband than I did. Talking to mine was like talking to a brick wall unfortunately. I always knew he was somewhat egocentric but I was usually able to pull his head out of his ass long enough to get a little attention for myself or the family. The dynamic changed suddenly when he turned 50 & was able to retire from his lifelong job. He lost his identity & had to reinvent himself. He put us all through hell, believe me. I hope you can get some better answers, some meaningful explanation. I didn't & won't ever beg for love or attention either :hug:

Pav, there are good weeks & there are bad weeks. Turns out they are all just fine provided we keep AL out of the picture!

Wishing everyone a great AF Tuesday!

Lav

[Byrdlady]

Morning, Nesters!
Hanna, thank you for your note. As you know, knowledge is power.
Hind-Sight IS 20-20. From my rear view mirror, here's what I see.

I was angry that I got caught. Angry that I now had to choose between two powerful forces (hubs or AL). I was angry that I didnt see it coming.....there were plenty of warning signs, but his leaving seemed to come out of nowhere. Why wasnt he willing to believe me that I would quit? I had been juggling everything so well!??? Was he PLOTTING this all along? These are the words of an addict.
Here is the scoop. ALCOHOL IS THE PROBLEM. If you will work on things in this order, you will find the right path. #1 QUIT AL completely. #2. Work on marriage. The words 'out of the blue' loosely translated means '20 years'. 'Plotting' means 'finding a support sytem'. Yes, I was pissed off, I was pissed off because I was backed into a corner and I finally had to face the devil himself: ME! I cannot blame my husband, I had promised countless times that I would stop or cut down or just drink on weekends or just two a night. Each time I failed. I drove him to this decision and I now OWN that. Why? ALCOHOL IS THE PROBLEM. He sought support just like you are seeking support.

ANGER is a pretty good first step, as you know, its the second stage of grieving. Denial being the first. Direct your anger to the right source. ALCOHOL IS THE PROBLEM.
Make a vow never to buy or drink it again. No matter what. If you cave now, the choice is made and Al is going to win. If you think about it, the choice really isnt your hubs or AL its LIFE or DEATH. I hope you choose life. I understand this is a most difficult situation, but getting Al out of your life once and for all will be the best choice you ever made (whether you marriage survives or not).
Try and stop being Angry and start healing. Own the problem (which is Al). Move forward and try not to drag up the past. Its a new beginning.
I wish I would have listened to Lav a year earlier when she told me these things, I could have avoided the worst part of it. I thought I knew better and my situation was different. But guess what, ALCOHOL WAS THE PROBLEM!
Dont look back. You got this. Byrdie

[LilBit]

Morning, All.

Yes Pav, the Zamboni cleanses a multitude of indiscretions. I shudder to think of what the hockey players leave behind. Actually, I like the Zamboni metaphor. Every day, life becomes a clean white sheet with a chance to start over and do everything with more grace. Considering yesterday's Lutz combo, that's a very good thing.

Lav, Spring surely has to come your way soon? No frozen chicken wings!

Happy Tuesday, everyone.

[Hanna]

Ok guys. I promise to not keep bombarding you with my marriage shit. I just need to know your take on the letter below. I am hoping it says it all, in a way that you all think makes sense. I am planning to leave it on the counter for my husband later this afternoon. Then I plan to go to an exercise class at 6:45 (AFTER I eat), and come home after that for bed. Any input from you guys would be really great. I can't wait to be able to be in a better place and be here for you all. It is ironic that, in my real life, I am not one to share easily and actually am the one people come to for advice, both professionally and in my relationships. Something I guess I will need to work on for sure. Anyway....here it is:

Marty-
I am done with drinking. I can’t expect you to believe that or trust that, I can only tell you what I know. Call it hitting my “bottom” or whatever you would like, but I am done. With or without this marriage. I just want to know that you will give me/us the chance to let you see my truth.
What is killing me is that you can't even tell me that you are willing to give me this chance. That, I guess, is understandable but incredibly sad, as it means throwing away an otherwise good 19 years together.
I have been basically begging you to tell me you will give me the chance. That is not good for you or me, and it is not helping. However, until you can at least decide to give me and our marriage this opportunity, being around you is incredibly painful. Well, truthfully, it is just as painful when I am not around you, but when I am, I end up upset and begging.
For this reason, I am going to continue to keep busy doing NON DRINKING activities to keep me busy and not at home when you are there. It is just too painful.
When you come to a decision, you can let me know. I hope you decide to give us this chance, and we can try to work on this, and on us, as a team. If you decide otherwise, well…I guess we will need to make some major changes.
Either way, I am done with alcohol. I love you very much and cannot begin to tell you how sad I am that alcohol has done this to us. And I say alcohol, because that is the true enemy. Not me. Not me alone.
Please let me know when I can come home as usual rather than just to sleep, or when it is time for one of us to pack our bags.
With love,
Beth

[KENSHO]

Hanna, I feel for the weight of your situation. I don't feel like I'm very good at advice so please take it with a grain of salt, but a few things come to mind when I read what you write. First, don't be a victim! Decide what you need and ask for that. Don't give everything away to save something the other is not willing to try for. Also, have you asked if he is willing to give you the one more chance that will be "it" and to actually give you some real healing time - like give it 6 more months? If he is interested in saving his marriage, I would think he would be willing to give it that one last try, knowing you are serious. As some others have said, whatever happens, you will be ok, and you might even find that that destination was the best possible outcome. And remember, as you become sober for longer, your view of the situation might change. I realized there were a lot of things about my hubs that I ignored - he is no saint either! Take care of you Hanna, and just don't drink, whatever happens!

edit: RE: your letter - You are still giving him all the power. Ask him for an answer as to whether he will give you 6 more months (or whatever you think). Also, I do think that AL is the problem, but be sure to own your part in it.

LavB, glad your wrist is feeling better! We do need those body parts on a regular basis - it's hard being without them!

Pav, glad you're not adding to the drama with a drink!

I couldn't make myself work yesterday afternoon (after a 60 hr. work week), so I gave up and went to get a facial at a spa. It's my new favorite thing to do with the drinking $$ I save! She told me I had some broken capillaries on my skin and told me that alcohol worsens these. I was quietly thrilled to say "Oh, well I don't drink alcohol".

I SO strongly believe that ALCOHOL IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM many of us face- only because I don't think we can really address the other problems WHILE still drinking. Get AL out of your life, and see how much more able you are to problem solve!!! I agree wholeheartedly with Byrdie that the first step is to STOP DRINKING!

Hugs to you all - find one thing to be grateful for today!

[Overit-still]

Hanna-I just don't know what to say about your note. Well, I do know what to say, I don't like it but I don't know why. Yes, maybe because you are sounding like the victim and that this is all your fault. Yes, alcohol must be somewhat to blame, but it can't be everything. He would surely still be madly in love with you, maybe, and want to do whatever was possible to make it work. I do know that when I told my husband that we couldn't be home at the same time, that just put a bigger wedge between us. Time apart just made it easier to be apart. I don't know, I'm rambling. I think this whole thing is just smelly. Sorry, you didn't ask for my personal opinion.

[Dutch1988]

Man Hanna I agree with Kensho, you have to do what feels right for you of course but I feel like you just want to leave this note so the ball is no longer in your court. I know your not drinking but if you see him at an absolute minimum I doubt that's going to make him remember the good parts of the past 19 years.

i hope everyone has abetter or awesome day. Last night I had an awesome event at my martial arts school, had monks from China come and perform because of my instructor relationship with the temple. He said I might get a chance to perform with them on stage when they do their show which made me laugh. I kept thinking if I was still drinking I would never want to do that but now I am thinking what the heck why not?

Had an epiphany this morning but I am going to need a computer to type it out, kind of think I know why I started drinking.

Hope things go better for everyone today!.

[jane27]

Hi Hanna, you sound vulnerable, shaky and scared in your letter. I understand that you are feeling all of those things and it's very helpful to identify your feelings. On the subject of the letter, what would you think about holding off- instead focus on building strength by accruing sober time and doing things that empower you. Once you feel better about yourself you'll have a more clear perspective on where you and he have each fallen short in the marriage. Just a thought that goes along the lines of actions speak louder than words. Wishing you a good day :hug: