Newbies Nest

[Guitarista]

Have a great day LC.

It's easier for me to handle those cravings when I learnt about the science behind a craving. Don't forget that in the early AF days, our body thinks it runs all systems on booze, so it is simply craving fuel to run/operate as we've trained it to run on booze as a fuel. Something like that anyway. Simple fact you may already know, but reminding myself of this takes away some of the mystery and helpless feelings for me.

L8tr g8tr's.

[LavenderBlue]

Well, off work today - soooo tired after the last couple days, but I know I'll feel fine after some rest. A friend of mine upset me last night, by accident I'm sure. I was so tired I just couldn't get past it. In the old days, I probably would have drank, stayed up, tried to make myself "feel better" but only ended up in more of a hole. Instead, I went to SLEEP (weird idea when tired, right?!) and while I'm still a little miffed this morning, it's at least with some perspective. Every once in a while, I do still have a kneejerk reaction to drink *at* people - I just have to remind myself that it doesn't help. Plus I'd feel like such a shit if I actually said to someone, "Yeah I drank last night BECAUSE OF YOU." Ugh...I'd be so disappointed in myself and feel like such a manipulative jerk.

Heya Matt, glad if what I had to say helped. It sucks feeling stuck, but I know we can both get through it!

Lol Pav, yep I am saving animals, close enough! Honestly, with the new job I'm wishing I'd listened to everyone in my life who suggested I volunteer while things were at their worst. I needed to quit drinking, too, to get my mood/head on straight; BUT being able to help these animals really helps when I start feeling worthless. (I'm guessing the same if volunteering elsewhere.) I'm looking forward to work on my offdays for the first time in a long time, I know that at least while I'm there I'm doing something good and making a difference. I think it also helps that I'm working with people that I get along with more than when I was in retail, we're not all the same, but everyone's main goal (helping the animals) is the same, so it's a lot easier to get along and feel comfortable.

lifechange - I'm with Matt in that I'm trying to just work at finances a bit at a time. For me, that also meant making some uncomfortable phone calls to work on adjusting payment plans. It's really stressful for me to do that - to admit to anyone, much less strangers, that I can't do something and need some help. But so far everyone's been able to work with me based on my income and other expenses, I've got breathing room of at least a year on some of my biggest debts - though to be fair, those are student loans so it's different than my credit card bills. Other than that, I went through my monthly expenses a while ago and tried to cut those down, I subbed to a lot of monthly things online and abut half of them I don't actually use enough to stay subbed at this time. Good luck in any case, I really think what helps me most is remembering how many years I didn't do anything or made things worse, so any headway I make NOW is hugely better than if I hadn't made a change.

Dutch - Glad you're still around! I've definitely had times that I started writing things and then deleted them. On my better days, I know that anything I write is for me, though - and even things I think are just babbling have sometimes helped someone else! Do what works for you, just...well...babbling! xD

[LavenderBlue]

idefineme - I think I can see how some posts might seem self righteous, I don't know if it'll help if I tell ya that folks here are sincerely speaking from their hearts and experiences. I'm usually an understanding person, but I know for the longest time I assumed folks who didn't drink were probably kind of up their own butts, didn't have any fun, all of that. (Other than my friends who didn't drink, of course. THEY had reasons that made sense.) Thing is, I've quit drinking and I'm still me. I still make R rated jokes to my friends (I know, you wouldn't guess from my posts; I usually don't online ) still like the same music, still have all kinds of liberal political ideas that probably irritate people (lol), still have alternative views on religion...the differences have all been positive for me, but certainly didn't magically make me boring.

As others have said, if your goal is moderation there's definitely others on that same path; I'd check out the moderation or meds threads. When we say that, it's not trying to push you away either - it's that those of us on different paths don't feel like we can tell you how to successfully moderate if *we* coudln't do, or didn't want to, ourselves! If you wanted car advice, I'd direct you to friends who know cars, not because I don't care but because they can give better advice.

I've seen advice in modding and med threads pretty often to at least start with 30 days sober though, so that would certainly be one place to start. Talking to your doctor is also almost always a good starting point since they can give advice that we can't. And whatever your goal is, it helps to have a plan of how to get there instead of just jumping in and hoping.

I'm definitely in the group that I couldn't moderate on my own, if I could before I'd lost it by the time I came here. I started with the idea of 30 days, but the longer I was sober the more I decided to choose to stay with it. Not out of pressure from others, just I know I've always at least had a little trouble moderating, especially while upset, so it seems easier for me to quit entirely than to find a way to moderate if that makes any sense? I also started preferring how I feel sober - I'm guessing that sounds off to you, but seriously, I wouldn't have done it if I wasn't liking the results. Other people choose other paths. I'm stubborn as anything myself, I wouldn't have chosen the path I'm on if I didn't sincerely believe I'm happier for it...but that's *me*.

The Nest specifically tends to be very abstinence oriented in part out of respect and care for newbies who show up. Talking about abstinence around someone moderating isn't likely to hurt them (assuming everyone stays respectful), but talking a lot about moderation to someone who really really needs to just quit could be super stressful for them to hear about, you know? Plenty of people come into the Nest hurting, I know I wouldn't want to say something that would make things worse for anyone. Plus, as mentioned, that first 30 days sober is a great starting point even for more of a meds or moderating approach!

For abbreviating alcohol...some of that is laziness, from me anyway. :P All groups tend to have language that pertains to that group; like injokes and other things. Over here, one of them is AL. And again, for people that it does actively HELP to use that term, it doesn't hurt me to do something that helps them. Everyone has their own things, in a lot of cases it doesn't hurt me to be respectful and understanding of them; I've got my own after all!

I know I got long, I just wanted to really put some thought in. I've seen so many different ways of approaching things on this site and even in this thread, to me it's the furthest thing from something like AA. The only similarity is that some of us have decided we're better off quitting for good, you know? I wish you all the best whether you hang around here or find a home in one of the other threads!

[Pavati]

Hi, Nest:

Add me to the list of people who came here with the intention of moderating. No way I wanted to give up my best friend, and I truly could not imagine fitting in to my life without alcohol. I thought I would never have fun again and would always be sorry for myself and craving alcohol.

The turning point for me was acceptance. Even though I still wanted to drink (and still do from time to time) changing my mindset to accepting that moderation was not for me (believe me, I tried my hardest) meant that I didn't have to have that battle every day. Even though my lizard mind was telling me "you need a drink to get through this" (whatever THIS was), my rational brain knew that it wasn't even a choice to drink, so it might as well move on.

Many things helped me reach that point, including the people here. I found a lot of help listening to the Bubble Hour podcast, in particular the episode on denial. Like one of the hosts, I wasn't in denial about the fact that I drank too much, but, especially with hindsight, I WAS in denial about what it was doing to my life. Getting away from alcohol has given me a clear perspective of all of the ways in which alcohol was affecting my life.

There is a lot of current research about moderation and alcohol. There are people who moderate with the help of drugs, and people who have not yet crossed the line to addiction who can rein back their drinking and keep up with it. I was not that person. Even when I WAS "successfully" moderating, my mind was always occupied by "how much have I had," "what time is it," "when can I have another," "is this a special occasion," etc. I have decided for myself that it is indeed easier to take the choice off the table than to constantly haggle with myself about when, how much, etc. As I have said here before, if only one (the amount moderate drinking allows), then why not none?

OK - that is my SOBER Sunday rant. I hope you all have beautiful days full of clarity and fun without alcohol!

Pav

[Matt M.]

available, i appreciate your input, truly! so far what i have gleaned from this site is that absintence is the be-all-end-all. not "mywayout" at all. I realize I am currently using and therefore not so clear in my thinking, but already I sense an AA/12-step mentality. I appreciate that, really i do ... but i'm just wondering if this really is my way out, or the pre-concieved notion of others?
and, if i may be so bold ... calling alcohol 'al' seems a bit like calling valdemort 'the unspeakable'. my take, and sorry if i've offended anybody.

I'm pretty sure all the bases have been covered here, but what the hell.
First off I loved your Harry Potter analogy, and I actually get it...
For me it's just easier to type Al than alcohol, but I do agree Al is as evil as " you know who"
There are no "rules" or secret internet handshakes here, if one chooses to type Alcohol, type away. (Myway)

As others have mentioned there are many different threads in here for all sorts of views and beliefs (Myway)

One of the first post I made in her was how I was raised in a AA 12 step household and it was ingrained in me that it was AA or bust....
I shared that I felt I had given my all in to making AA work but just couldn't. I received many replies that day ranging from what I thought was the "typical" AA response of " You get out of AA what you put into it" among others, BUT I also got several responses from people stating how by using this forum they had been able to remain sober.
I filtered through the responses and chose to follow the later responses (Myway)
Yes I ututilize some of the tools that AA has to offer, AA works for many, it saved my Father. For the most part I attribute my success to this forum and the people I chose to follow. Which was and is MyWay!

[okoren1]

On the topic of moderating, I have been a member of MWO for a long time- 6 years- and accordingly have heard many peoples story's. Fact is: I can't recall a single incident of anyone reporting that they have successfully moderated for an extended period of time- while there are many, many incidents of people who have successfully abstained for years.

My conclusion- which includes my personal experience is- moderating is much harder and more complicated than simply abstaining. Seems like those who attempt to moderate make "deals" with themselves on the terms of their moderation...I will only drink on weekends, or have "X" number of AL equivalent drinks per day (or every other day, or whatever). And in the end these deals reportedly, inevitably fall apart: weekends evolve from 2 days to 3 days, counting AL equivalents becomes confusing and contorted. The term "slippery slope" is frequently used.

Many would-be moderators seem to go through this moderate vs. abstain cycle for some period of time - often an extended period of time- before they either make the firm decision to quit for good, or presumably keep on drinking.

Again, speaking from personal experience, when I decided to quit for ever, my life suddenly became so simple. I then had two things to do 1) maintain my sobriety day by day, and 2) get on with life on an AF basis.

[Samstone]

available, i appreciate your input, truly! so far what i have gleaned from this site is that absintence is the be-all-end-all. not "mywayout" at all. I realize I am currently using and therefore not so clear in my thinking, but already I sense an AA/12-step mentality. I appreciate that, really i do ... but i'm just wondering if this really is my way out, or the pre-concieved notion of others?
and, if i may be so bold ... calling alcohol 'al' seems a bit like calling valdemort 'the unspeakable'. my take, and sorry if i've offended anybody.

Idefineme
I am definitely not an AA'er, I have become a non-drinker of alcohol by my choice because it was a choice of who was in control. No steps, etc. That being said, I came to MWO in hopes of moderation till I started reading about side effects that may be caused. I've always been wary of the corporate drug companies and their intentions, another issue altogether, so I decided to stop. As Lav pointed out, the idea is to abstain for 30 days here in the nest just to get some time out, so to speak.

I guess it really boils down what your drinking habits may be like. Truly, it is about you cause nobody knows but you. There are moderation threads here as well, not real active, but they do exist and I'm sure if you posted there, it would get a response. Please understand, I'm not trying to shoo you away, I just suggest you need to look within and figure out what it is you wish to accomplish. I joined MWO and waited about 5 months before I stopped altogether, there's no cookie cutter. In your gut you know what is best for you.
wishing you success at your choice!

Sam

[Byrdlady]

Good afternoon, Fellow Nesters!
The overnight shift has outdone itself with insight! (as usual!).

Matt, I took your approach to the whole thing, I found someone who was doing what I wanted to do, and living the life I wanted, and I did what SHE did. Her name is Lavande. I am still doing that, and so far, so good! She says in two sentences what takes me several paragraphs. Her economy of words also made me NOT HEAR them. When I got serious about quitting, I actually LISTENED to her, and sure enough, it worked! I think it's safe to say that NONE of us wanted to give up AL for good, for for those of us who have, and taken the option off the table, it has been a source of peace. In my 6 years on this site, and thru observation of others, there are basically two types of people here on MWO: Those who struggle with AL and those who don't. That may be over simplifying things, but if you take a hard look, that pretty much sums it up. I got tired of the struggle, so I joined the other team, the team that seemed to be winning at this. I have never regretted one day I spent sober, and there are 1621 of them. I'm sorry if that sounds self righteous, but I learned everything I know about AL THE HARD WAY. That IS the beauty if a support forum, there are folks that are in front of me and folks behind me, when I have strength to give, I reach around to help others, when I need help, I reach to the folks ahead of me. I have learned to listen and what a gift that has been. After all, I didnt come here to learn how to be a better drinker, I came here to find a way out.

LavB, being of service to others has been a real tool for me. Here is today's project!

[Byrdlady]

Holy cow, I need to work on my picture posting!!

[Samstone]

So Byrdie, where's the door to the cake??!!

[mama]

Hello All,

I am back at Day 1 after a month long spiral. Did ok most of the day, but right now, I am so crazy with thoughts of alcohol. I almost feel like I am going to have an anxiety attack. Wish I had the option of getting out of here, but I am helping the hubby get dinner ready (cooking time is definitely a DRINKING TIME for me!!!). He knows I drink (everyday & "a little too much"), but has NO IDEA how bad my drinking has become and I DO NOT want to admit it to him or anyone.

Just getting it all out there is calming me down a bit.

Hope to hear from some of you soon!!!!

[Samstone]

Mama
take a deep breath, and another, drink some water or a fizzie drink of some sort without AL. Then straighten yourself up and tell the BASTARD you're in control. Remember how good it feels being sober, not having to deal with all the unnecessary garbage that goes with drinking. Got that thought?? keep it ever present.

[mama]

THANK YOU Samstone!!! I am here reading a lot of old posts, mine & others. Trying to get my head on straight.

Just had to let you know that I giggled when I read you comment about the "unnecessary garbage". I knew what you meant, but I also thought of the LITERAL garbage. Have to hide the empties & sneak bottles into the recycling....it's work!!!

[Samstone]

Mama
good for you! We have to look at any angle that it takes to put the BASTARD in its place. Think of the money saved as well!

[Lavande]

Well, good evening Nesters!

Looks like things have been hopping around here today ~ that's great

Mama, make a solemn vow to yourself, rewrite your plan & stay close to the nest. There's a lot of experience & collective strength here, you may have noticed. Be completely honest with yourself, I found that really helped me.

Byrdie, you have outdone yourself with today's cake project!!!
Could you possibly convert it into a new chicken coop? Stella & the girls really need a new place, theirs is falling apart, ha ha!! Seriously though - well done :welldone:

Hello to everyone & wishing a safe & comfy night in the nest for all!

Lav