Newbies Nest

[abcowboy]

Howdy everyone! Quick check in this morning, all's well in my world thanks to God, Bubba, my family, and all my friends at MWO! Been very busy installing central a/c in houses because of the heat wave, 9 done, 4 to go, and the phone keeps ringing lol

Just to give everyone a heads up, I started a thread to wish Turnagain a happy 4th sobriety birthday, so do stop by and add to it... Also..

Mstall on 8 AF months!

[jane27]

Posting here to stay accountable, even though I don't feel like it at the moment. I had been posting on the roll call thread but drank on Saturday. Of course, I'm frustrated with myself and feel like leaving this site altogether. How many times can I keep coming back and starting over? It's embarrasing and hard to do because I don't want to inadvertently derail anyone else. I did get right back on track and it was a one day slip. In the past it might have been days or weeks of drinking before I could muster another Day1. I can thank this site for that, so I know I want and need to stay connected here.

I don't think I'm giving myself an out, but I've decided that for me I'm not going to post on the roll call for a while and continue to read and post on other threads. As much as I never want to have another day of drinking in my life, I also don't want to put myself in a situation that I know may drive me away from this site and all the help that it's given me. So, it's day 5, but who's counting?

Kailey, Anyone that is an expert in anything fell down & got bruises along the way. When they did, their desire and determination to succeed is what drove them to get back up, and go at it again. Don't waste precious energy on negative thinking. It will weigh you down and rob your momentum. The nature of this terrible addiction is that AL lies in wait looking for these opportunities to try and suck you back in. It’s nothing more than chemical addiction.

We have seen all kinds of people nail this thing- I can’t imagine any special reason that you would be excluded from joining the group of success stories. Your post let me to do a Google search on relapse, and I found something I thought was simple and to the point;

A Learning Experience
I never drank like a normal person, and I never had a healthy relationship with alcohol. It meant something different to me than it did "normal" people.
I think there are statistics to support the idea that most people do not, in fact, stay sober the first time they try. I believe that relapse is the norm rather than the exception. But my own observation is that relapsers who successfully achieve sobriety later are the ones who turn it into a learning experience.

Have You Had Enough?
It is an opportunity for you to assess how you feel about getting sober, about what led to the drinking, and to consider again whether you have had enough. I don't know that you can ever explain all of the whys and wherefores of drinking, but you can certainly identify your triggers and vulnerable places.
It is an opportunity for you to assess how you feel about getting sober, about what led to the drinking, and to consider again whether you have had enough.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/relapse/a/uc_relapse.htm

Last week, I felt like a helpless TURKEY emailing Byrdie to tell her I felt like everything I learned was flying out the window. We traded a few short emails (I was too depressed to talk on phone), then I posted a little something on my home thread (Loamers). I kept coming back to all the things I hear people tell Newbie’s and Relapsers alike – why didn’t you post first? Why didn’t you reach out to a fellow MWO’er for support? So I did- a little here, and little there got the ball rolling and my sobriety muscle memory began to come back. Seeing this positive result inspired me to keep trying to use the tools. I went back to using Moodtracker; it helped me create a context to identify moods within- it also help me see feelings and facts as separate entities. Facts don't change quickly, but moods can, and its important to understand this in order to keep it in perspective during a down mood when temptation comes calling.

I’m not back all the way yet, but I’m getting there. Doesn’t this sound like a little like a relapse to you ? It felt like one to me. The only thing different about my relapse than yours is that I had more time under my belt when it happened, and I didn’t drink. Accrued time sober is like having a super power. Alcohol is a media darling, its legal and easy to come by, its prevalent on tv and film- and all of this combined creates a gross lie for people like us that can’t tolerate it. . For us, it just as bad as heroin, crack, meth. Grinding that piece of it into the brain is essential in order to get by the times when for whatever reason, AL comes calling. You need to find a way to take AL off the table. It needs to be loud, bold, and underlined.

5 days is a great start- only 2 days shy of a week. You can spend your energy feeling badly that you f’d up but this will only make you more vulnerable to the big, bad, wolf. Instead focus your energy on moving forward anyway you can. If you think you can identify the reason you did it it, that will be helpful to remember for the future. If you're not sure or its likely to turn into a stupid me! thing, put it on a shelf, in a room with a door, close it with you on outside, and lock it.

The months that preceded my realizing I’d had enough, were like being in a prison cell with a broken record that played continuously.. That gets old fast.
You can do this thing, but only when you’ve come to the conclusion that you have really had enough. I hope that you are there. :hug:

[ALpro]

After reading the "Drinking on vacation" posts, and going back and reading the "Scandinavian member threads" I decided to share my story.
I was 18 months sober and on vacation in July 1996. After a long, exhausting, stressful day I decided I needed a beer. No pre-planning to drink on vacation or how much to drink or anything like that. Just decided I wanted and needed one. I drank that beer and one more that evening. After that day I went on a 18 year drinking spree. About 6570 days. I can approximate the days wasted, monetary costs etc.. I can't measure the shame, guilt, or embarrassment.
I didn't think I would ever be able to quit alcohol again. July 4, 2014 I decided to attempt the quit again. Been sober just over a year now. Not giving any advice, just sharing what happened. I don't think I should have a couple beers on vacation again!

[jane27]

So going into another unsuccessful month of getting the wife knocked up. Since the miscarriage her getting her period was never such a downer, now it's like a night of the blues for both of us. She feels like she let me down, which I keep telling her she's crazy, then I am sad because she's sad and I just want to get back to having a new LO on the way so I can give myself a good reason to start making more money. Instead i am sitting here bitching about my feelings. last night we were watching the Simpsons to try and get a laugh and Homer needs to fight the mob boss in town and asks for help from Barney. he's recovering and tells Homer he can't because like all recovering alcoholics hes a coward. I laughed but thinking about I actually do feel that way, like alcohol made me at least act in the way I thought I was supposed to, even if it was probably slowly killing me.

I am in a weird place right now. I have been thinking a lot about drinking on my vacation. I think what it really comes down to is I am just not happy right now, and I want to be happy for my vacation. Or maybe I have flexed my sober muscles to failure and I am just ready to try modding again. Reading back on my first posts I was always trying to mod, and convinced that if I just keep not drinking I would feel better. Call me impatient, but I was hoping to feel better by now. I can already see in my head the posts about people trying and unsuccessfully modding, but I don't want to spend a couple thousand dollars to go to Hawaii and have a lousy time.

Has anybody, ever, successfully drank on a vacation and not come back right back where they started? I mean people seem to have day slip ups all the time on here and come back from them. So I guess what I am asking is where do you guys stand when it comes to having to come back from a quit. I remember reading every quit gets harder but I don't understand why that would be. I felt like after knowing I had quit for a month twice before I knew I could make it to 30 days, I was more surprised I made it to 4 and a half months. Let me know your thoughts, i am definitely not going to do anything rash like drink on the plane there...(although I am already dreading my inlaws sitting next to me). But for at least 2 months of this quit I have been having a pretty lousy time, I don't know if alcohol would have helped or hurt, but right now it doesn't seem impossible to drink on vacation and come back and start at day 1.

Of course here I am making up rules for myself and I know that's the start of breaking and making new rules again. I guess I am just tired of feeling crappy. At least when I drank I knew when night came it didn't matter if i felt bad about the day it wasn't going to last forever. Now I go to sleep feeling crappy and wake up feeling crappy.

Hi Dutch, Hopefully you had the chance to read Scandinavia guys post before and after.

Has anybody, ever, successfully drank on a vacation and not come back right back where they started?
No one that I know of has come back from a drinking vacation and hopped right back onto to the wagon.

I mean people seem to have day slip ups all the time on here and come back from them.
Some come back, not all. I was out for 2 years straight after my slip. Prior to that my max days sober were 52, 27, and 5.

When I red lined your post at all the places you sounded down and re-read it, I got the feeling that you’ve made up your mind and feel badly about it because you know your support team will be disappointed. That this is you giving us warning because you don’t want to seem ungrateful or return to MWO one day feeling like persona non grata in the dog house because you gave up without trying and faded away. I realize I could be wrong about these things.

Let me ask you this, have you already made up your mind?

If so, why not drink on the plane, (especially when you're dreading sittiing next to your in laws)? Is it because they expect you not to drink?

What do you envision for yourself on the day that you leave? Will you log in that day, or the night before? In your fantasy, do you see yourself in Hawaii and us in the Nest wondering did he or didn’t he? Do you tell us before you go on the trip what your goal is?

Imagine that you’re back at your house with your wife and daughter having returned from the trip to Hawaii- what do you see going on, and how do you feel?

[Overit-still]

Jane27-You're right, my original quit was 12/12/12 and here I am today on Day 3, again.............................and look at ALpro, 18 years before he could return. Holy Cow!

Dutch-I feel guilty if I'm one of the "I mean people seem to have day slip ups all the time on here and come back from them." giving you the impression that it's easy and away we go. It's not. IT SUCKS!!!!!!!! It's such a waste of time. I could have almost 3 years under my belt but instead I'm a loser and back on day 3. Is that really where you want to be?

[Byrdlady]

Thank you all for the lovely welcome. Taking all your advice on board and feeling positive again.

Dutch – I was delighted with my 4 weeks AF recently, and then I went on vacation and caved. I was so annoyed. Added nothing to our holiday but a bad headache my fake smiling face, in pain.

Kailey – I started back on Sunday too, bloody Saturdays. You just had a blip, took me 2 weeks to snap out of it.

Day 5, woohoo (spot the newbie, very excited with this number!). I do really worry about falling off again. Even today in the office, colleagues talking about people they know falling off the wagon and the state they become, ‘tut tut’, pity pity.. It’s an incentive in a way because I never want to be judged like that.

Mary.

Mary,
Day 5 is outstanding in our world! You are operating under your own power now. We give prizes for 7 days, you won't want to miss that. I know it's a silly thing, but in real life nobody knows how difficult that first week is. We are massively proud of you (Bah, Proud Mary!!) and we can't wait to give you a MOON on your Day 7! Great job! B

[IamMary]

I didn't know that Byrdlady, incentive!
Thank you.

[TJAF]

So Dutch your post got me thinking which in turn leads to questions that I'd love to ask...and I will. Before that though, I'm not trying to be cynical or downplay your logic. Your post raises some interesting points. So here goes. What is it about the act of drinking that will make your vacation a happy one? Will drinking make the people you are with more interesting? Will the jokes be funnier? Will you dance more? Sing more? Will the Beach be sunnier or the food taste better? Will that book you've wanted to read be more interesting? I guess the point of the matter is that it would seem from your post that deep in you, happiness, or things that make you happy, are somehow married with the act and effect of drinking. Isn't it possible that you can experience all of those joys unfettered by alcohol? I know what you mean, I really do....I thought drinking was somehow part and parcel with being happy...a happy drunk so to speak; but, in retrospect, the things that make me happy are completely disconnected from alcohol. I remember in college going to a concert and getting hammered and thinking man I had a great time and alcohol played a big part but really I just loved the music and alcohol didn't change that at all. it was just something else to do....and to be honest it actually took away from the enjoyment of the music. I think at the end of the day whether or not you are happy on your vacation depends deeply on what's inside you not on some artificial act like drinking. Just a thought.

[Dutch1988]

M an I wish I had enough time to thank everyone for their words of wisdom and questions that really made me question everything I was saying to myself. I am going to try my best and think through all of this. Thanks for letting me vent everyone, I swear just being able to vent someplace without feeling judged has been such a factor in not drinking for me. I was worried after yesterdays post someone would take a virtual swing at me, but instead all I received was support, pretty awesome.

Byrdie I was actually dreading hearing your response, I wouldn't call it tough love because I associated that with a kick in the balls with some reality. I actually felt better about not drinking after reading your post, and plan to not drink on vacation. Scan sounds like he was pretty far down the hole before his 4 months, I can't say I was like that but the whole damn reason I came here was because I knew drinking was quickly moving towards problems so I wanted to stop. I will be posting often during my vacation if I don't feel better, I hope you guys don't mind me complaining like I did before.

TJAF I think what I really have is low self-esteem, I am in this place of inaction where I know what I need to do to achieve my goals and I don't do them. Today it took a lot with being so down in my pity party but I took some small steps toward things and I think that helped. For a long time I told myself I could do things i find hard because there is always alcohol at the end of the day. I do think AL makes me care less about what others think, but that is a problem I NEED to work on, not something AL is going to help me with.

Overit-I was in a low spot and trying to justify my drinking, I never really thought about who were the people who just seem to jump back up after relapsing and I don't think anybody is jumping, it seems to be a crawl and I don't need it

Jane thanks for highlighting haha, after reading your post I thought back to the 11 stages of relapse and realize I was just hopping right along until I drank, I thought about drinking a lot all day but my wife convinced me that some days are just worse than others and I should just go to sleep, today I feel a bit better.

Lilbit thanks for the suggestions, I really just need to stop associated AL with vacations, I just need one vacation under my belt to get that to happen I think. I have been throguh 3 weddings w/o AL, they all worked out okay, so I will try one vacation.

[LilBit]

Heads up to all of us Newbs for the strength and good decision-making that Dutch just demonstrated here. He:

1. Was self-aware enough to recognize and admit when something was bugging him
2. Came here, vented and posted about it
3. Learned about others' mistakes in the same area
4. Accepted advice from his support group openly and without being defensive
5. Made a sound, advanced decision on how to handle a trigger situation
That sounds to me like a winning strategy from someone who's determined to safeguard his quit. Dutch, you da man! :welldone:

[Byrdlady]

I am so glad to hear that Dutch! Actually, Scan's post back then sent the whole place in a tizzy, his thinking seemed to come out if nowhere! Before that, he was active and putting along quite well! When we read it, we were all in disbelief!
I am so happy that you are doing everything you can to protect your quit and you came here and talked it out! Very proud of you! Hugs, B.

[Guitarista]

Yo Nesters near and not so far.

Great posts Jane.

Hey Dutch, part of your earlier post got me reflecting.....

re people coming back and getting back on the wagon after 1 or a few days relapse. Let's not forget what can happen during ONE drinking session. The way we all drink, we leave ourselves open to all sorts of life threatening scenario's:

Falling down/up stairs = injury/death
Falling and cracking our head open on the street or indoors = injury/death
Robbery/assault/fight = injury/death
Walking/staggering into traffic = injury/death
Falling asleep and choking on our own vomit = death
Organ failure/heart attack = injury/death
Brain/internal haemorrhage = injury/death
High probability of continued abusive drinking because we have re-opened the chemical and psychological gate = injury/death

Then of course there are the emotional injuries like shame, guilt, remorse, regret over our behaviour in our 24 hour moderation attempt to try to enhance an already fab situation, or hide from a distorted perception and assumption of what might happen.

We end up in hospital, prison, dead, or worse still, shuffling around like a prize chump - probably on camera somewhere. :egad:

Take it easy out there and kick some ass in your own ini....inim.....inimitable way.

[Overit-still]

You guys are all awesome!

Today I walked into a liquor store (only 1 of 2 stores in town, both sell alcohol) to buy a Diet Coke and immediately that AV came on telling me "I could drink and come here and lie about it" "What's one night, you can start again tomorrow" YA RIGHT! I could lie, but I haven't and wouldn't and it's never 1 night, it would turn into a binge. AGH! But, reading here and popping my AB has helped.

Love ya' Dutch

Have a great night everyone!

[Marylou123]

Yea Dutch!!!

[jane27]

Dutch- LilBit nailed it. You told the truth about how you were feeling even though you knew you'd get grief for it. You seem pretty in tune with yourself with regard to recognizing that something is going on. You also express what you are feeling very clearly and while its happening. Those 2 things together make an excellent weapon in the battle to break away from substance addiction.

TJAF posed some great questions- and you gave us a perfect example of the way alcohol bullshits us; If drinking was the key to having fun and happiness, then how did we all wind up here? OH YEA- we were miserable because as alcoholics, the only way for us to drink is by putting alcohol 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th etc before everything else.

I know my earlier post was rough. I was thinking over what you posted and struggling about how to be supportive using kind & gentle words. Looking back on my own experiences, kind and gentle was a free ticket to boozeville every time:
1) Calling myself out publicly (humiliating) re wanting to drink gave me something extra and separate to be ashamed about
2) receiving soothing encouragement & pats on the back made me feel like I had been forgiven

You have come so far and are so close to rounding the huge corner where not drinking is the new normal. One day out of the blue, you'll look at the time at 4pm and realize you forgot to remember YOU'RE NOT DRINKING.

Do you feel any better or worse today? You had a rough thing happen with your wife's miscarriage. That's a really upsetting event! I hope you won’t pin feeling crappy the last 2 months entirely because of not drinking- you had/have every right to feel crappy about what happened. Like with all things, the passage of time will ease the pain of that loss.

I appreciate your venting, listening and responding. I hope you continue to do so. My red marker is totally out of ink, so no worries there- and thanks for not ripping my head off about it. I know it would have annoyed the hell out of me, and I doubt that my reply would have been good natured. Lol

Props to you Dutch for stepping up to the plate! :huggies: