Newbies Nest

[Pavati]

Hi, All:

Byrdie - don't call your truisms "calendar quotes!" Those were the nasty words of a crazy person. Never apologize for what you do and say around here. We need your wisdom - that's why we all landed in the nest.

Addy - GREAT information. Thanks for finding it. I think that would be great information to post in the tool kit.

I am beat. Good night, and take care of yourselves, nesters!

Pav

[Lavande]

Good morning Nesters. Thursday it is

I'm watching the weather & hope to get out for some exercise between storms. Hate getting my feathers wet, ha ha!!!

Greetings to all, have a great AF Thursday!

Lav

[Byrdlady]

Good Morning, All!
Thank you, Pav, I appreciate your kind words!

A wounded Pop-Tart, eh, Matt? :egad:
Well that little jewel is Proof Positive that we can learn from our mistakes and take a different approach to find success!
Hope everyone has an easy day today! Great to see everyone checking in! B

[Starfish1]

Good Morning, Friends :hug:

Feeling stellar here on day 8. I am so glad to be back in the nest and to see Londoner back here too! I hope Dutch checks in today.

Thanks for everyone's support and encouragement. I learn so much from you all!

Have a great day!

[jane27]

Great bunch of posts this morning

El, I can relate to your biking woes, including the bridge bit (rode off a small foot path bridge when I was a kid). Never seen a curb I haven’t kissed (w/ my tires). Do you think there is hope that you can turn it around? I don’t think so for me. I still do it- I just try to focus on the reality of my limitations based on my stats. Even then I get carried away and crash into things. The answer for me is a tricycle. I wish I could find one with the tires closer together. Why they gotta be soooooooooo far apart? Reminds me of Eunice’s legs (from the Carol Burnett show)



LavB, Sounds like your tooth situation resolved itself. Did the dentist say what he thought caused the problem? I have 2 root canal molars experiencing pangs of sensation. Not good.

Ava, Loved your photographs of the balloon ride with Robert, and happy to hear that his batteries are feeling re charged. You are a very loving & supportive friend to him. Did you happen to notice any dogs barking when you were out in the balloon? Even though I was crouched down in the basket for most of the duration of my one trip I did enjoy hearing all the dogs barking as the balloon passed over their homes. Apparently they can hear something we can’t, and it causes the effect of a symphony.

Byrdie, I enjoyed reading Elvis’ post and am thankful that he didn’t get swept out to sea by his cash in. It really can happen. Speaking for myself, and I know both you and Little Beagle feel similarly- I don’t know if I could quit again. I don’t know if I’d want to quit again. I truly regard this quit as a gift. All the planets must have been in just the right alignment for me to get this project off the ground and get it to stick. 99.98 % of the time , I couldn’t honor the promise to myself not to drink. Max days before this quit: 52, 27 and 5 a handful of times…for fifteen years. What do you call that if not a problem? Feeling depressed and/or flat can happen, but it doesn’t last more than a day or so. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life married to a bottle of alcohol and out of control. No way.

Dutch, I hope you can learn from what others have to share. You are through the worst of it. The rest is a learning curve.

For the sake of comparing level of challenge-
not drinking at 5 months sober : repeating Spanish II (because you got a C- the first time and want a better grade)
spearheading a brand new quit after having resumed drinking : enrolling in Physics after barley squeaking by Algebra I.

That said, good job coming here to hash things out. Have you begun to notice the way your moods change and evolve? It’s easy to make the mistake of viewing the state of the world through the tint of your mood d’jour, and this is a sure way to stretch a depressed or flat mood out into a longer lasting event. I hope you check out the mood tracking site I mentioned to you. It’s so easy, and it’s fun. If you like competitive things you will find that it drives you to raise the bar to TRY and get in a better mood because you want to get those stats up.

The pastry gods have been good to me, but they can be a cruel and ego-crushing lot. I’m glad this project went smoothly without adding to my already fragile, cakey existence. You never know what you can do til you try. (Sorry for the tired calendar slogan).

Good one Byrdie!

Thanks Byrdy for the repost and the important reminder. I remember that day well, and it got worse before it got better.

Elvis, I’m so glad you are back in the saddle. I don’t see any difference between you and me. Coming to the understanding that none of us is unique is the cornerstone for getting sober. We all share the same problem and there is no such thing as reinventing the wheel on this one. For me succeeding means being a copycat. I copy Byrdie. Bottom line, it works.

Wishing everyone a great day. xo

[Londoner]

Londoner,
A lot of folks who don't want to go the spiritual route choose SMART Recovery. They offer meetings worldwide and have over sixteen online weekly meetings. They offer a scientific foundation instead of a spiritual one. It differs from AA in the fact that addictive behavior is viewed as a "maladaptive habit" rather than a disease and the term "alcoholic" is not used. They offer a 4-Point Program that includes

Point 1. Enhancing and Maintaining Motivation to Abstain
Point 2. Coping with Urges,
Point 3: Problem Solving (managing thoughts, feelings and behaviors,
Point 4: Lifetyle Balance (balancing momentary and enduring satisfaction. Go here for more info: https://www.completeharmonyrehab.com...recovery-rehab.

There is also the Secular Organization for Sobreity, also known as Save Our Selves which is designed to be an alternativve to those paths depending upon supernatural or religious beliefs. This program was started by a man who attended AA and struggled with its approach to recovery. He wrote an article entitled "Sobriety without Superstition" which was about maintaining sobriety separate from spiritual or religious beliefs. It became so popular that it evolved into SOS meetings. They have meetings in every state and in 21 countries. They believe moderate drinking is impossible for alcoholics and view sobriety as a first priority. Go here for more info: http://www.centerforinquiry.net/sos. I know there are other online support groups but I find this one great and you already have a home here. But, if you want to meet people who are choosing recovery without a spiritual path, maybe one of these two organizations can help.

Addy (All Done Drinking...Yes!) :love:

Thanks for the link. I've purchased their guide on the Kindle and will be nose deep in that tonight.

[KENSHO]

Hi NN. I have tried to moderate, and I can’t do it - at least to the standards I set. Left to myself, I am a miserable failure at it. I want to quit. But I’m struggling with a few things that I know many of you have come to terms with.

One is feeling connected with a variety of people. I feel that when I don’t drink, they view me as arrogant or damaged and there feels like a wall I don’t know how to cross - a level of discomfort with everyone that I create by not drinking - because I’m not partaking in everyone’s activities. Am I just imagining this? I already feel somewhat disconnected with people - social skills are not my strength - so this seems to magnify it.

Also, I really, REALLY struggle with the notion of NO alcohol. It's how I feel about being vegan. Sure, it might be better for health, but it seems a bit unrealistic to be so limiting and absolute. I would feel like a snobby health nut, being elitist and being high-maintenance about "my perfect diet". With food, I like to do the best I can, because I know I feel healthier and generally better when I eat well, but I am not opposed to the psychological benefits of having an ice cream sundae here and there. How do I make alcohol different in my mind? Maybe that in actuality, there AREN'T benefits to alcohol? Maybe because alcohol is more damaging to me than ice cream? Maybe because I can stop after one sundae, and not want one the next four nights?

I also struggle with the fact that my worst drinking was never falling down or embarrassing myself. I never took it to a point of mass-destruction. This makes it easier for me to justify any belief that I don't have a problem. And by many people's standards, I don't.

But it is a problem to me. I don't want to be a nightly drinker, yet left alone, I am. I do not want to "count" drinks either. SO that leaves one option: quit. I don't like "forever" and "none", but I will try to focus on "none today - because I'm happier" and see how far that gets me.

[Samstone]

Kensho
a couple of things:
If I worry about what other people think, there is an allowance of someone having power over me, that power of guilting me into a drink. So point one, don't give a shit what people think

If I worry about forever, then I'm wasting time worrying, rather I found it helpful to ENJOY my quit rather than being concerned about NOT drinking. It is important for the mind to do away with the negative "NOTS". It is a re-programing that is being done. Point two, enjoy your quit, you are worth it and you'll never look back. Just watch the next time you see someone hung over and you're feeling good!!

Health issues due to drinking are real, sugar, big time!! The guilt, the waking up wondering if I can stop this tomorrow feeling. With so many reasons not to drink, isn't interesting we all have many to be tempted, of course the real reason is the buzz, feel looser with friends. Yet I firmly believe we just have forgotten how to be ourselves. In my case, I never gave myself a chance, starting at an early age. Now it has been the most enjoyable time of my life, even when the BS hits the fan, coping is more manageable.

ok, rambling has ceased.
Best to you and stay in touch!!
Sam

[Dutch1988]

This is the kind of tough stuff I need to read so that I can remember. Thank you, Elvis.
My visual is opening the spigot of a cheap box of wine directly into my mouth in a dark corner of the kitchen, with the water running to mask the sound of opening and closing the appliance garage, where the box was kept.

Most of the bad memories I have are peeing on something, waking up and peeing on the couch while my wife yells at me, and me shouting back "what? I always do this?" Till I wake up and realize what I was doing.

Thinking back there are more signs that my drinking was getting worse to explain why I am here. I peed on our couch, as mentioned above, I peed on my computer headphones, peed on my coffee table. These spurts were over three years, and I would realize what I would do. i would intentionally not drink or eat as much during the day so the alcohol hit me faster and harder. Despite being very physical I figured that I was okay but i would get the occasional leg cramp grappling if I went to 2 classes the same day. (That hasn't happened since I stopped drinking, imagine that). When I noticed things like this I would slow down, take some days off, or if i really thought I was bad stop for a month, but my quit ideas and actualizing them did not always happen, which is why I decided to come here. I don't like drinking and feeling like I need to, I like being me.

Byrdie where'd you get the picture of my poptart i tried to make? That's not funny! XD

Londoner let me know what helps you, I have seen you off and on on here and think we have a lot in common. My whole family drinks, and funnily, since I stopped, so have my dad and my twin brother, if you can't stay away from them, maybe you can change their thinking as well.

Jane thanks for the advice, I listened to a bubble hour yesterday and think i have PAWS for sure, which sucks because i didn't think "I drank that much." Ha! I was stressing about work when I felt horrible which just made my feelings worse, but God, or the Goddess, universe, or whoever threw me a bone yesterday. My wife found a new job in the school district we live in, literally 2 minutes from our house. She was going part time and we were budgeting and cutting with the hope I would just make more money soon to not make things so tight. Now i have some time to get my business together, and I have to say, it feels really good. She didn't take the job because she had, she did it because it was such a good opportunity. If it was because I couldn't make enough money for her to do what she wants, well that is about as powerful a trigger as there can be. So, at least for a year, I have some time to work through my feelings and get my business up to snuff so she can decide what she wants to do. I heard a lot yesterday about getting through the PAWS, I think your thinking can help a lot. It's like a viscous cycle if you think about it too much you feel worse, so I am staying busy.

Kensho, I hope I don't come off as being a dick, I am not, but I read through you mod posts with hope on vacation that I could moderating one day. What happened? I thought you were just drinking one or two a month tops, tell me for sure, as i was just battling when the voices in my head to try the same. if I had started drinking last week and you posted this I would probably be freaking out haha

[jane27]

Kensho, What you're saying is pretty simple- if you and AL are in a car together, AL is going to be in the drivers seat every single time. You are passionately hooked just like the rest of us. You can paint it any color or make it any shape but the fact of it wont change. The addiction is the only thing that is standing in your way. Quitting sucks- there are not 2 ways about it. I also wish I could drink, and it was heartbreaking coming to terms with the fact that I can't; but just like anything else, time heals all wounds, and it gets easier. Until you cross that bridge, you're just talking to yourself, and I'm, not saying that because I don't care or believe in you, but because I cant do anything to quiet the heartbreak chatter in your mind. You have to want to quit. That's all. You KNOW you can do it, we all know you can do it. You just have to suck it up and do it. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And this is why when you DO finally get some time under your belt, DONT CASH IT IN FOR ANYTHING IN THE WORLD. Remember these days and how hard it was fighting with yourself. Let me say again, I am rooting for you 110%. The next time the iron gets hot, STRIKE, and dont' look back. xoxo

Saint Augustine said it best, "To many, total abstinence is easier than perfect moderation."
That's why I abstain- because its so much easier.

[Starfish1]

Hey Kensho!

Great to see you again! I'm back in the nest after yet another epic failure (or three).

I have never had the guts to even try to moderate. It's always been an all or none response for me. I can't even begin to imagine the torture I would put myself through if I tried to control my drinking. Past the first few sips, I have no control.

As I was reading your post, I was saying the exact same things (to myself) that Sam shared. Number one- you just CAN'T care what other people think about whether you are drinking or not. If you can't keep yourself from feeling pressured by others (or yourself) to do what "everyone else" is doing, then, at least give yourself some space for a while and don't put yourself in the company of others when they are drinking. It's easier that way, believe me!

Also, I have never gotten hung up on the "forever" thing either. I just don't go there. Like you said yourself, just take it one day at a time and after you have some sober time under your belt, you will be thinking "Whew, I never HAVE to drink again! ", rather than "How can I NEVER drink again?"

Kensho, please consider yourself lucky that you have never taken it to the point of mass destruction. I was the definition of mass destruction for years. You are very lucky that you have made the decision to quit before it gets to that point.

I hope you hang out in the nest with me for a while. I'm only on day 8 and these other guys are blowing my feathers off.

[jane27]

Jane thanks for the advice, I listened to a bubble hour yesterday and think i have PAWS for sure, which sucks because i didn't think "I drank that much." Ha! I was stressing about work when I felt horrible which just made my feelings worse,

Dutch, It was a Bubble Hour podcast about ranking moods that was an eye opener for me. Ellie talks about being comfortable with highs (10) and lows (1). She had to teach herself that 4,5,and 6 are normal, not bad, and not a call to break out the booze to push the mood scale in one direction or the other. Glad you like the show

This is the episode.

http://www.thebubblehour.com/search/label/feelings

[Starfish1]

My wife found a new job in the school district we live in, literally 2 minutes from our house. She was going part time and we were budgeting and cutting with the hope I would just make more money soon to not make things so tight. Now i have some time to get my business together, and I have to say, it feels really good.

AWESOME news, Dutch!!!

[Starfish1]

Kensho, :hiya:

One more thing... As a new tactic, I think I am going to also try convincing myself that I am Allergic to AL...I wouldn't eat peanuts or shellfish if I had adverse reactions to them, so why did I drink AL? I had an adverse reaction to it every time I drank it, whether I could see it or not (and usually, I and everyone else in the vicinity could see it)...

As Turnagain says "Every drink injures Every time". I believe it!

[Eloise]

El, I can relate to your biking woes, including the bridge bit (rode off a small foot path bridge when I was a kid). Never seen a curb I haven’t kissed (w/ my tires). Do you think there is hope that you can turn it around? I don’t think so for me. I still do it- I just try to focus on the reality of my limitations based on my stats. Even then I get carried away and crash into things. The answer for me is a tricycle. I wish I could find one with the tires closer together. Why they gotta be soooooooooo far apart? Reminds me of Eunice’s legs (from the Carol Burnett show)

Weellll Jane, I hope I can turn it around.
We are in the Netherlands and everyone rides bikes as transportation, so yeah I am giving it another try.
I rode it to Mozart again this morning. I went really slow, walked when I had to cross busy streets. What is weird for me is the design of the bike. I have to jump up on the seat and I cannot stand while on the seat.
I have to jump down. I have one of those old fashioned bikes. I tried to ride with my dog, like everyone does, but oh boy... not good.
Oh, and then people carry their groceries and all kinds of crap on their bikes. I am like HELLO I can barely balance myself. So, not handy for errands but I will get it.
Or not?
I try!
Day 2 of back on the bike went okay.

I also have to do something about this social anxiety. It is just crazy, I am so easily offended.
A work friend of my husband asked me last night at the tennis club "Well, are you at least trying to learn Dutch." Naturally my first thought was "F you madame" Of course I can't say that, so guess what I say Jane? Nothing, I just stare at her.
And then I laughed a little.
The only other thing I could think of was "Are you at least going to see a dentist?" She had a missing tooth. Well, she started it. I know, I know, not mature of me.
OMG. Terrible. She won't remember anyway because she stayed until 11 drinking. Glad I left at 8.

I hate socializing, but I need to meet people so they will bring their kids to me for art class. Not sure how to bridge that enormous gap?