Newbies Nest

[All done drinking]

I have tried to moderate, and I can’t do it - at least to the standards I set. Left to myself, I am a miserable failure at it. I want to quit. But I’m struggling with a few things that I know many of you have come to terms with.

KENSHO, I was on another thread today and shared these words with someone else that seem very fitting for you too. "Your post reminded me so much of myself and why I allowed alcohol, truly a cunning disease to fool me for so long. The fact that I could control myself to a set limit of drinks most of the time only served to reinforce my delusion that I didn't have a problem. If I didn't keep it under control as I hoped, then the hope that "the next time I will keep my drinking under control" kept me in bondage. A one liner I stumbled across summarizes it well, "When you have to control something, then it's out of control." I refuse to let AL beat me too. This thread keeps me accountable and truly gives me strength every day to keep fighting this battle and to win it! The more serious we are about our quit, the more successful we will be."

I feel that when I don’t drink, they view me as arrogant or damaged and there feels like a wall I don’t know how to cross - a level of discomfort with everyone that I create by not drinking - because I’m not partaking in everyone’s activities. Am I just imagining this?
When we don't drink, it makes other people aware of their own drinking. We have big drinker friends who weren't as motivated to get together when we were on vacation last week as they knew I had quit drinking. Even though I didn't judge and told them to feel free and imbibe away, I really believe it made them uncomfortable. So there are going to be different situations that arise with different people. But the bottom line is my sobriety is the priority so it's ok with me. I personally feel that it isn't everyone's business to know mine as some people do judge and don't understand alcoholism at all. A co-worker/friend was talking about a well know newscaster who "came out" that she was an alcoholic and her comment to me was "And she looked so put together!" Well, guess what? I look put together too, but my shut off valve doesn't work. I can hold a job, I completed a Master's Degree a couple years ago when not abstaining, and I didn't drink a lot by most standards. But it was what happened to me when I lost control with the limit I had set for myself.

Also, I really, REALLY struggle with the notion of NO alcohol.
I think we all struggle with that, perhaps that's why they came up with the plan of "one day at a time" or "only 24 hours". When we break it down into one daily only (or if in a crisis, minute by minute) we can do it. I don't allow myself to think "forever"...just one day at a time, and I love racking those days up on Newbie Nest Roll Call. It will make you more accountable and I recommend everyone who is serious about their quit to post there.

It often takes repeated defeat in controlling one's behavior/drinking before they are ready to reach out and admit they have a problem. So glad to see you here. Just remember, when you have to control something, then it's out of control.

Addy (All Done Drinking...Yes!) :love:

[paulywogg]

Dutch,I've read that PAWS is a good thing actually, its proof that your brain is healing think of it as a broken bone,you get the pain and later the itching when its on the mend,that's how I try to envision it anyways

[available]

Morning nest

Dutch, i am thinking if you were peeing on the couch you so dont want to go along the moderating route! We need to accept what we did when drinking, forgive ourselves and move on. We cant change the past as much as we would like to but we can have a great future without al.

Jane i didnt hear any dogs, i think i was too busy just looking at the world below and not wanting to go back down. A magical experience for us both. Mind you the noise of the gas being lit was enough to wake anyone up.

Star, a belated congratulations on 7 days, i was in shock when i did 7 days and i knew then that if i could do a week then i could do 2. Time flies when you are having fun!

Oh moderating! An alcoholic cant moderate, an alcoholic cant drink, end of story. We are on a drinking site for a reason and that is because our drinking has gotten out of control and we want to rein it in or stop. Normal drinkers dont count their drinks, normal people can go days/weeks without al and not worry, normal people dont have a drink as they feel they need to be sociable. Normal drinkers have control and can take al or leave it. We are not normal, never will be and i have the badge to prove it. I didnt hit a rock bottom as such but i was heading there at a rapid rate of knots. I still try and pinpoint when my drinking got totally out of control but i cant. i know i functioned day in and day out but i was not fully present, i deserved that drink at the end of the day. I came on here and i SO WASNT as bad as others on here but when i looked in the mirror at myself, i knew i was. To admit i was an alcoholic was hard, to realise i was like my alcoholic brother who died was harder, to do something about it seemed impossible but I did. I am no different from anyone on MWO except i chose to admit defeat with al. i knew i could not ever win against al unless i completely stopped. I have told myself i will drink when i am 80 to celebrate, that gives me a good 29 years of sobriety, i can do that! i have not said 'never' but it is, and i am okay with that now.

LC where are you?

[Starfish1]

Ava.

I think LC's selling seashells by the seashore. Wish I were there too!

[NoSugar]

We all probably did those "Are you an alcoholic?" quizzes. Here's one that helps a person understand denial:

Denial Pattern Checklist
Read the list of common denial pattern below and check any that apply to you.
Denial Pattern #1. Avoidance: I Say To Myself: "I'll talk about anything but my real problems!" Somewhere deep inside of me I am afraid that I might have a problem with alcohol or drugs that is hurting me and those that I care about. But when I don’t think or talk about it I feel OK. So I think about other things and try to keep people from prying into my life where they don’t belong. My drinking and drugging is private and no one has a right to know anything about it. If someone asks about it, I change the subject and start talking about other things that have nothing to do with my drinking and drugging. If nothing else works, I’ll start an uproar by creating a bad crisis and making sure that they get sucked into it. If all else fails I’ll play dumb and pretend that I don’t know what they’re talking about.
Denial Pattern #2. Absolute Denial: I Say To Myself: "No, not me! I don’t have a problem!” When others try to corner me, I tell “the big lie.” I say that I don't have a problem with alcohol or drugs. No! Not me! Absolutely not! I don't drink too much! I don’t use drugs!; I’m not addicted! I never get sick or have problems because of drinking or drugging. I am so good at convincing other people that there is nothing wrong that sometimes I actually start believing it myself. When they believe my story a part of me feels really good because I beat them. Another small part of me feels disappointed. There is a small part that wants others to know what is really happening. There is small scared part inside of me that wants help.
Denial Pattern #3: Minimizing: I Say To Myself: "My problems aren’t that bad!" Sometimes my alcohol and drug problems get so bad that I can’t convince myself or others that I don’t have a problem. When this happens I minimize. I make the problems seem smaller than they really are. Yes, I had a small problem with my drinking and drugging. But it only happened that once. It will never happen again. Besides, the problem just wasn’t as bad as people think it is.
Denial Pattern #4. Rationalizing: I Say To Myself:"If I can find good enough reasons for my problems, I won’t have to deal with them!" I try to explain away my alcohol and drug problems by making up good explanations for why I drink and what’s “really” causing my problems. Sometimes I’ll pretend to know a lot about alcoholism and addiction so other people will think that I know too much have a problem. The truth is that I rarely if ever apply what I know to myself or to my own problems.
Denial Pattern #5. Blaming: I Say To Myself: "If I can prove that my problems are not my fault, I won’t have to deal with them!" When the problems gets so bad that I can’t deny it, I find a scapegoat. I tell everyone that its not my fault that I have these problems with alcohol and drugs. It’s somebody else’s fault. I only abuse alcohol and drugs because of my partner. If you were with a person like this, you’d abuse alcohol and drug too! If you had a job or a boss like mine, you‘d drink and drug as much as I do. It seems that as long as I can blame someone else, I can keep drinking and drugging until that person changes. I don’t have to be responsible for stopping.
Denial Pattern #6. Comparing: I Say To Myself: "Showing that others are worse than me, proves that I don’t have serious problems!" I start to focus on other people instead of myself. I find others who have more serious alcohol and drug problems than I do and compare myself to them. I tell myself that I can’t be addicted because I’m not as bad as they are. I know what an addict is! An addict is someone who drinks and drugs a lot more than I do! An addict is someone who has a lot more alcohol and drug-related problems than I do. An addict is someone who is not like me! I tell myself that I can't be addicted because there are other people who have worse problems with alcohol and drugs than I do.
Denial Pattern #7: Compliance: I Say To Myself: "I’ll pretend to do what you want, if you’ll leave me alone!" I start going through the motions of getting help. I do what I’m told, no more and no less. I become compliant and promise to do things just to get people off of my back. I find excuses for not following through. When I get caught, I tell people that I did the best that I could. I blame them for not giving me enough help. I tell people how sorry I am. I ask for another chance, make another half hearted commitment, and the cycle of compliance tarts all over again.
Denial Pattern #8: Manipulating: I Say To Myself: "I’ll only admit that I have problems, if you agree to solve them for me!” When I my alcohol and drug problems box me into a corner, I start to manipulate. I try to use the people who want to help me. I try to get them to handle all of my problems and then get them to leave me alone so I can keep drinking and drugging. I'll let them help me, but only if they do it for me. I want a quick effortless fix. If I they can’t fix me, I blame them for my failure and use them as an excuse to keep drinking and drugging. I won’t let anyone make me do anything that I don’t want to do. If they try, I'll get drunk at them, blame them, and make them feel guilty.
Denial Pattern #9. Flight into Health: I Say To Myself: "Feeling better means that I’m cured!" I manage to stay clean and sober for a while, and things start to get a little bit better. Instead of getting motivated to do more, I convince myself that I’m cured and don’t need to do anything. I tell myself that I may have had a drinking and drug problem, but I got into recovery and put it behind me.
Denial Pattern #10: Recovery By Fear: I Say To Myself: "Being scared of my problems will make them go away!" I began to realize that alcohol and other drugs can destroy my life, hurt those that I love, and eventually kill me. The threat is so real that I convince myself that I can't ever use alcohol or drugs again. I start to believe that this fear of destroying my life and killing myself will scare me into permanent sobriety. Since I now know how awful my life will be if I continue to drink and drug, I just won't won’t drink or drug anymore. If I just stop everything will be fine. Since everything will be fine, I won't need treatment or a recovery program. I’ll just quite.
Denial Pattern #11: Strategic Hopelessness: I Say To Myself: "Since nothing works, I don't have to try"I start to feel that I’m hopeless. It seems like I’ve done it all and nothing works. I don’t believe that I can change and big part of me just doesn’t want to try anymore. It seems easier just to give up. When people try to help me, I brush them off by telling them that I’m hopeless and will never recover. When people do try to help me, I give them a hard time and make it impossible for them to help me. I don’t understand why people want to help me. It would be easier if they just let me keep drinking and drugging.
Denial Pattern #12. The Democratic Disease State: I Say To Myself: "I have the right to destroy myself and no one has the right to stop me!" I convince myself that I have a right to continue to use alcohol and drugs even if it kills me. Yes, I’m addicted. Yes I’m destroying my life. Yes, I’m hurting those that I love. Yes I’m a burden to society. But so what? I have the right to drink and drug myself to death. No one has the right to make me stop. Since my addiction is killing me anyway, I might as well convince myself that I’m dying because I want to.

http://www.tgorski.com/clin_mod/dmc/...ist.htm#Denial Pattern Checklist

Because no one was on my case to quit drinking, #s 3 and 6 were the big ones for me. I could easily convince myself that I hadn't felt as awful as I really did or I only had 3 glasses (never mind the ever increasing size!) or that I sure didn't drink as much as several of my friends and since they weren't addicts, by definition I wasn't either. And they certainly didn't think I had a problem so I managed to see myself reflected in their eyes, not in the mirror.

The point isn't how much I drank or how hungover I was or whether I ever got a DUI or neglected a child. There are non-addicts who drink more than I ever did, have had worse and more frequent hangovers, and have even killed people in an auto accident. Those aren't characteristics of addiction - they are consequences of consuming too much alcohol. Addiction means that you can't consistently drink exactly how much or how often you intend to drink; one addict might drink 2 bottles instead of one while another cannot resist consuming 2 glasses instead of one. The lack of control is what means you're addicted, not how much you do or don't drink.

[paulywogg]

NS,great post,I think #11 and 12 were my thoughts in the past,"I'llnever be able to do this long term,may as well drink" "screw everyone, I'm a grown ass woman, if I wanna drink I'm gonna have a drink" Horrible thinking that's derailed me too many times,now I'm trying to change my 'tude, a better attitude is the only way this is gonna work

[Matt M.]

Just a quick check in, hope to read back later.
School starts Monday in these parts, being that my wife is a school teacher and having 3 school age kids in every extracurricular activity known to mankind,,,let's just say it has been wheels the fuck off....
I'm sure the great Pavati feels my pain

NS- I glanced over the quiz, I'm pretty sure I scored a 100.
Sorry for not addressing everyone, I have 3 hungry boys scowling at me. .��

Stay Hard freaks!

[abcowboy]

Howdy everyone! Some great posts and discussions going on lately, that's the way to recovery! NS, the denial article was great, denial is so much a part of an alcoholic's life. I found the sheet my counsellor gave me about the Relapse Ladder, it's a good read for anyone..

“Are you climbing the Relapse Ladder?"

Relapse is at the top of a nine step ladder of thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. The lowest rung is called happy memories. "Happy memories" means that you are thinking about the good times you had while you were drinking.

The next rung up is called "I wasn't that bad." This occurs when you tell yourself you weren't really that bad, that your drinking was someone else's fault, that your problem was caused by anything except your disease.

The next rung higher is stopping your recovery. This means that you cease following your plan of recovery, you stop doing the things that helped you stay sober. When you stop your recovery, you pretend that you can stay sober by doing nothing.

The fourth rung is called high risk situations. Examples are you return to the bar that you used to frequent, you begin hanging out with your old using friends, you spend long periods of time isolating in the basement where you used to drink. You put yourself in these situations not thinking that you will drink there, but just to experience the feeling of being there again.

The fifth rung is called, emotional imbalance. During emotional imbalance, something causes you to get really angry, irritated or otherwise emotional and you remember how your drinking took away the pain of the emotion. You may even get really happy and you remember how you always drank to celebrate. Now you are really getting higher on the ladder, and like any ladder, the higher you go, the more dangerous the climb. Also, the higher you go, the more committed you are to reaching the top.

The sixth rung is fantasizing. Now, you are spending increasing periods of your day thinking about drinking for no apparent reason.

Fantasizing leads to the seventh rung, getting ready to drink. This means you intend to drink and you plan how you are going to relapse. You tell yourself that tonight when my spouse is asleep, I am going to sneak out to drink. You think through the exact steps of where you are going to go to get your alcohol.

On the next rung, you actually get the alcohol. You acquire the tools of relapse. On this rung, you may feel a terrible panic, and unless you reach out to someone which is now incredibly difficult to do because you are so committed to reaching the top.

You step up to the final and ninth rung which is Relapse. As you know, the Relapse rung has a crack in it and cannot bear your weight. So you come crashing down. Sometimes the crash happens immediately. Sometimes, the crack worsens over time. But since there is a crack, you will fall. If you survive the fall, you will feel guilt at having relapsed. You will resolve to stop drinking. And unless you get help, you will start the terrible climb back up the relapse ladder beginning with the first rung which is…..


If you are on the Relapse Ladder, you need to get off on the lowest rung possible! Remember there are two parties involved in a relapse. There is you and there is your disease. If you tell someone that you may be on the Relapse Ladder, you are telling on your disease, not you. So, ask yourself if you are on any of the nine rungs. If so, say to yourself, "I must get off the ladder now" five times to yourself with increasing emphasis. Then pick up the phone and tell your trusted friend, confidant, therapist, or mentor which rung of the ladder you are on and that you want to get off. (Leaving a voicemail message also works). If you can’t connect with someone, read your recovery literature, pray to your Higher Power, write down which rung you are on and list the consequences which made you want to get sober in the first place. Then try to connect with a supportive person as soon as possible. This process works regardless of your philosophical or religious beliefs. Remember, sharing with another doesn’t mean that you only reach out when you have a recognizable craving or urge to drink. Sharing means that you reach out and discuss where you may be on the Relapse Ladder.

[Quit wining]

Hi Nesters,

Back again, it's been a few different times. I've gone several months AF and always fooled myself in thinking I could moderate. Wrong.

Every time it's the same thing.

I'm sick and tired of the same old, same old. I know that one glass leads to four. Or more.

Anyway, I plan to be here for a long, long time, hopefully AF before long. I have some health issues that increase the need to get better.

[paulywogg]

Hi Quit wining,I love the name

[Lavande]

Good evening all Nesters,

Wow, the nest has been hopping today - great
I love seeing the place full of activity!

Hello & welcome Quit wining, please make yourself comfortable & be sure to read back through all of today's posts - all very helpful.

Kensho, glad to see you here again. The mod attempts usually fail, that's just the way it is with this beast. It is totally easier & kinder on yourself to just walk away from it all together. Wishing you the best!

Dutch, congrats to your wife (and you) on the new job, great news!

Matt, my grandsons are still pretty young but they eat continuously - I kid you not! Hope you got your gang well fed

Greetings to everyone who stopped in today & sending wishes for a safe night in the nest for all.

Lav

[Pavati]

Hi, Nest:

Another day of great discussions.

Kensho
of course the real reason is the buzz, feel looser with friends. Yet I firmly believe we just have forgotten how to be ourselves. In my case, I never gave myself a chance, starting at an early age. Now it has been the most enjoyable time of my life, even when the BS hits the fan, coping is more manageable.

Yes, Sam! That has been the case for me. I have had to re-learn how to be me without alcohol. It has taken a while but I actually became myself again - I can get whacky, laugh, have serious, hours long discussions - all without alcohol. And then I get to drive home, sleep well, and wake up feeling great.

i know i functioned day in and day out but i was not fully present

Ava, this struck a nerve with me. For at about a year I read here pretty regularly but I was always able to say to myself "I'm not that bad." As a Bubble Hour host says - the farther I get from my addiction the worse I see it was. Functioning is NOT the same as living life to the fullest.

The point isn't how much I drank or how hungover I was or whether I ever got a DUI or neglected a child. There are non-addicts who drink more than I ever did, have had worse and more frequent hangovers, and have even killed people in an auto accident. Those aren't characteristics of addiction - they are consequences of consuming too much alcohol. Addiction means that you can't consistently drink exactly how much or how often you intend to drink; one addict might drink 2 bottles instead of one while another cannot resist consuming 2 glasses instead of one. The lack of control is what means you're addicted, not how much you do or don't drink.

NS dropping the knowledge again. My husband drinks too much sometimes, but he is not an alcoholic. It looks different.

Kensho - welcome back. I can say that I used to really worry about what others would think about my not drinking, and I still do from time to time (sorry, Stella). But I think one of the reasons it makes things a bit uncomfortable sometimes is that someone not drinking always causes others to re-assess their own drinking. I know it did for me when I was drinking. It has taken me a LONG time to be brave about my problem - I still am not there, and I don't think I'll ever be loud and proud like some. I still am grappling with feeling weak, even though I can objectively say I was vulnerable, not weak. The one thing I am totally firm on, however, is that I can't drink. I really can't. That is a relief to admit, and helps me worry about other things I CAN control.

Good night, nest!

Pav

[KENSHO]

Thanks to all for the responses.

SAM, good reminder about being in TODAY - and being grateful for experiencing it without alcohol.

DUTCH, to answer your question, I was only able to have one every thirty when I considered it a slip, a mistake, and came right back here. Once I changed my mindset to - "I am able to moderate, and alcohol is ok", I had several stretches of one or two weeks AF, but it became harder and harder to say no - because I had deemed it "OK". I worried a LOT about influencing others to go down my road, and I'm very sorry if my actions gave you or anyone false hope.

Thanks for the welcome STARFISH! Keep your feathers on, I am here to figure this out with you.

ADDY, point taken with "if you have to control it, it is out of control".

NS. Well, #3 and #6 have had me. I really appreciate your words about addiction. I have never understood that, and it is tremendously helpful. As someone said, you have to want it to quit. I know I don't want to drink every night, but I feel I need to understand it - and I still struggle with a few things. It's the fact that I started to realize that alcohol controlled me - that I said I wouldn't drink every night, but did... etc. that made me so uncomfortable with my use before I very first came here. But I saw the flip side that it was not all that much that I was consuming - and that confused me. I definitely fit in the category of "can't consistently drink exactly how much or how often I intend to". Thank you

PAVATI, thank you as well for the welcome. You have always talked about how you learned to be in social settings again, and it has inspired me. To clarify - I am not as concerned about what others think of me. It's more that I don't like that I don't feel as connected to people when the elephant is in the room of me not drinking. It's that thing where everyone has some drink, everyone loosens up, everyone is on the same page. I already don't always feel on the same page - and me not partaking makes me feel less so. This has been especially so with my husband and my in-laws. Alcohol is "what they do", and though they complimented me during the times we traveled and I "had the discipline to abstain" (in their words), they have seemed clearly relieved that I have had a few with them over the past couple months - like we are once again on the "same page".

I'm off to bed. I a behind at work, but I'm going to go read instead. I really appreciate "here". Thank you.

[Dutch1988]

Posting from the coach, sorry if I don't hit everyone!

Thanks for posting the relapse ladder Abc, I am on it, and have been for several months going up and down. I would damn near say I am on it, either fantasizing, remembering fondly, planning, or securing alcohol all to often. I am going to contnie blaming paws for this, and keep trucking along. I'm at 5.5 months today, I think, and pretty much hate sobriety. In Janes advice I am going to track my mood, as I feel pretty much up and down all day long. I literally spent 3 hours today at work while I was teaching basically going through the motions with this huge feeling of disassociation going on, with my brain telling me it's okay you will feel better when you drink. I won't longterm, I'll feel shitty again.

my wife and I are having a tough night. Usually her getting her period was a good sign( birth control for the win!) but now it's just a reminder of the miscarriage and brings on a solid week of gloomy moods for both of us. To top it off she seems unhappy with the decision to take the new job, which in turn makes me unhappy. Although the financial opportunity of a nice job is great, she really wanted to stay home wth the kid. I of course feel like I let her down because I am not making enough to get her to do what she really wants so she felt like she had to take it. Instead of making more money, I am sitting here feeling like crap, barely able to work the hours I have set. When the hell are these ups and downs going to end, all I can do is close my eyes and pray my brain figures itself out. The wife has also been great emotional support during these ups and downs and now I go back to seeing her mostly on the weekends with our weird schedule.

There you go nest, another day of me bitching and moaning about my first world problems, but I didn't drink, so there's that!

[Lavande]

Good morning Nesters & happy Friday to all

I have a busy kid-filled day shaping up & need to get a bunch of things done before they arrive. These are the times that I am especially grateful to be free & clear of all toxic substances & just enjoy life as it is meant to be

Have a great AF day everyone!

Lav