Newbies Nest

[Byrdlady]

Dutch, I'm not a doctor by any stretch. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the advice your doctor gave you was off base. If we get desensitized to the world over time, then we'd have a bunch of Zombies running around. I know Zombie....I WAS one. I don't want to put words in the mouth of a doctor (particularly this one!!) but maybe was referring to our REACTION to stimulus as we get older. I think a BIG part of our issues are related to COPING SKILLS. When something good happens, drink. When something bad happens, drink. When nothing happens, drink! Until it becomes an addiction. Then we block it out/gloss it over with booze. Recovery (at least from my viewpoint) is about learning new coping skills. I LOVE instant gratification and nothing gets the job done like booze, but I have learned NEW things to do that accomplish the task BETTER and more effectively, because at the end of that swig, your problems are still there. When you actually DEAL with them and sort thru them, then they are better managed.

After hurricane Katrina, I wanted relief from those images I kept seeing. I tried drinking them away, but got more depressed. I asked my doc for an antidepressant and he freely prescribed it. After 5 years on heavy AL and AD, I can tell you about the absence of highs and lows and it sucks. I was merely existing. (Numb and Numb-er!!!) I knew I was prolly going to have a shorter life than I had imagined, but the way things were going, it didn't matter so much. When I got off the AD's and then finally got off booze, I can tell you that the highs and lows are what make up life! I appreciate the highs MORE because I know about the lows! And the reverse is true, when things are BAD, I know they will improve because I know that to be how it works! Life ebbs and flows. I think your doctor was just WRONG! I can't imagine anyone saying this to a young person! It's all about the COPING SKILLS....that is where WE must concentrate! At least, that's been my experience.

As you may recall, during my step daughter's last move (95* heat, no prior packing, ran out of boxes....ring a bell?) my favorite hair clip broke. On August 30, I asked hubs to whip into Walgreens so I could look at their selection (I remember the date, it was the day his brother passed). We were going thru the intersection and it sounded like something hit us, or we hit the curb. Hubs slowed way down, as did the car behind us...as we assessed the situation, we discovered an accident had occurred two cars behind us. Someone ran a red light and hit another car. The airbags deployed, but it didn't look that bad...the speed limit is 35 thru there. The next day we are watching the news and we learn that the person who ran the red light was the DIL of friends of ours....we went to their wedding 14 years ago! We hated it for her. They said both drivers would be taken to the hospital, but were expected to be ok. Last night, we learned that she died from her injury! She broke her leg during the crash and 9 days later, had a blood blot that went to her brain. She was 35 and leaves behind 3 small children and a husband. We are just floored at this turn of events. Life is so fragile and precious...don't let AL claim another day of it....no matter what and no matter who. Tomorrow is a gift, not a promise.
Hope everyone has his/her plans in place for the weekend. It's just Friday, not a ticket to BoozeVille! Dig your heels in and do NOT give in! Hugs to all, Byrdie

[Starfish1]

Wow, Byrdie, what an awesome post, thank you! I was looking for that really, really like button again! And I am so sorry about the death of your friend.

Dutch all the other "old folks" (besides me) said the same thing I meant to say, they just said it better. We just don't sweat the small stuff as much as we used to. I, of course, at this stage, am still suffering from screwed up brain chemistry due to my drinking, and am still somewhat numb to certain feelings. My dopamine or something is out of whack, I think. That is why it's so important to keep polishing up my attitude of gratitude. I practice it several times a day. I know from past (sober) experience that in no time at all, I will be feeling much better. I can't wait!

Hyper :hug: Awesome job on getting through day one! That's the hardest one. Just get your plan in order. Take care of YOU and stick close to us. We are here for you!

Kensho. You are doing so very well! You sound like a different person from the one posting a few weeks ago. I know you feel much better too! I have the same problem you do...Working too hard and overdoing it and then when you finally get a chance to relax, it's tough to go back to "the salt mines". My advice to you is to try forcing yourself to take mini breaks throughout your work day. I used to never ever give myself breaks. My motto seemed to be that I would "reward" myself after my work was done (and you know what the reward usually was!). I pushed myself and pushed myself until I was usually stressed and tired (two strong triggers for me). During the last 44 days, I have been kinder and gentler with myself. No matter what task I have to accomplish, I am forcing myself to take small (15-30 minute) breaks. I walk or snack, drink a cuppa or read MWO. Sometimes, I have even quit my task before I finish...in other words, I stop before I wear myself out and get tempted to talk myself into the "extra special" reward for working so hard. It's been working very well for me.

My plan for the weekend? Unfortunately, my weekends are generally pretty busy and filled with household chores and preparations for the work week. I have a routine that works pretty well (and now includes breaks, Kensho:love. Although the weekends are busy, getting certain chores done ahead of time means less stress for me during the work week and allows me to get dinner ready at a decent hour (before HALT kicks in) and all that is part of my plan for sobriety. Forty-four days and going strong, so I am going to rinse and repeat.

Have a great day everyone!

[LilBit]

Well said, Byrdie. I love it when I'm struggling to find the right words, especially with a complex subject, and then someone comes along and eloquently says exactly what I wanted to say. What a gift! It's like when two KitKats fall in the vending machine. 'Which leaves me free to talk about weekend plans instead...

Most everyone in the US has the chance to see quite a show from Mother Nature this Sunday night: a full lunar eclipse during a full harvest blood moon. Weather permitting, it should be spectacular, and it doesn't cost a dime. I'm planning to soak in the sight from a beach or maybe over the SF Bay.

'Also celebrating a friend's b-day at a French Bistro, attending another friend's rooftop party, skating (of course), going to a fall festival with rides and those things you throw that I always miss, and catching up on some writing, gardening and a video production project. Beats the poop out of my old plans: pick up three bottles of wine on Friday and *see where the weekend goes.* Duh!! Have a great one, everyone!

[Eloise]

Good for you Kensho!! Awesome speech.

[Starfish1]

Thanks for reminding me about that lunar eclipse, LilBit. I look forward to seeing that for sure!

[Eloise]

Just a little unrelated comment here. I have been in the worst mood lately, tonight I felt like crying for no reason. Well, my hd is being a bit of a turd and I started thinking about my life over the past three years.
Not good. Note: last 16 months are still great.
So I paid my horse a visit, and what a friendly helper he is. When I am with him I have to stay in the moment, I cannot think about anything besides him. If I even chat with someone for long as he starts fooling around, well he weighs at least a ton so I am afraid to let him entertain himself for anymore than 30 seconds.
When we are done he gets carrots, and so does his neighbour. Then he tries to steal my handbag. I love him. He makes me laugh when earlier I wanted to cry.
God bless this horse, what a blessing he has come into my life. I do not care if this sounds weird, I mean it.

I feel the same about this forum, but in a less giggly way. The horse makes me laugh, this forum keeps me sane in a different way.
Wow Byrdie, quit a story. You just never know, one day a broken leg and then a blood clot. Very sorry to hear this.
Happy and peaceful Friday all.

[Dutch1988]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I am pleased with your responses, truth be told. The conversation went something like, I want to talk to someone I am concerned I may be developing bipolar, as I have had a lot of ups and downs lately, but it could just be from being depressed over my wife's miscarriage from 4 months ago and then he responded with what he said. I was kind of like...huh, I would like a second opinion thanks! I don't want to feel things less as i get older, I just want emotional appropriate responses. As my twin said yesterday, on his day 70 of not drinking, I have a wife, house, beautiful daughter, successful business, I am in great shape and look healthier than I ever have, what the hell do I have to feel blah about? And that is exactly what bothers me, I like feeling good about life, but even today, and yesterday afternoon, I just don't feel like doing anything.

So Kensho, I researched a bit on dopamine and drug addiction, and am not too happy with what I read. Please help me out and guide me to some other research, I watched this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9F5wpvq2h0

His message seemed a little fatalistic. He said dopamine levels are upped by four things naturally, food, water, nurturing, and sex. About 200% is the max your body is capable of producing normally(think of your last orgasm I guess). He said an addicts brain producing more for the substance they become addicted to, so naturally, alcohol fucks this system all up. He said dependence can mess up almost all your neurotransmitters in 12 months, and it can take 5-7 years to feel normal. He also said drug addiction in your family, like an alcoholic father in my case, can make that first drink make you feel "normal" and that is where a lot of functioning alcoholics come from. This is exactly how I felt as a drinker, although dependence and abuse were quickly moving towards addiction. So the reptilian brain, when you hit a stressor and is hurting for dopamine, sends you that "DOC now please" message.

I think this pretty much sums up how I have been feeling. I go through the motions and feel fine when I am at BJJ, do at kenpo, or something else I enjoy, but if I don't actually force myself through willpower to get there, i will sit on the couch until I have to do something like go to work. Then I feel depressed because I think I am living from work day to work day, getting home and barely wanting to do anything, even eat. I have noticed eating, except for ben and jerry's or pizza or another extremely fatty salty sugary food, is a chore. The pessimist inside me says so what? You going to enjoy the next few years of your life like this hoping that eventually you feel normal? You never even felt normal before you started drinking, how do you know your parent's alcoholism didn't fuck you up for good.

Well for starters now I have to worry about my daughter being this way, although I wasn't really into drinking before, I was still drinking. I don't want to pass this shit onto my kids. I don't want my son or daughter to have their first drink or hit and feel the amazing euphoria I did, and think oh so this is how I am supposed to feel. I am a pretty damn honorable guy when I want to be, and I love making sacrifices for others. Why not use that for my benefit for once? I'll take this info seriously and equate drinking to perpetuating alcoholism in my family that has lasted for at least 3 generations. That's a big enough reason to stay quit, no matter how lousy I feel.

Now to refill my coffee and pretend it's going straight to my brain to make dopamine =P

Happy Friday!

[LavenderBlue]

Dutch, it can be so hard to tell what's AL, what's delayed healing from AL, what's situational, and what needs help! And Byrdie brings up a good point that sometimes jumping into medication isn't the answer. For me, after a year sober and talking to my doctor and a specialist at Mayo, I went back on antidepressants. I'd been on them before with improvement at the time, and this time we found a better mix for me where I'm not getting any side effects. My dad has been sober for years now, and I know he did much better after seeking treatment for his depression and adult ADHD. He and I both did better after we quit drinking, we just both needed more than that to get our brain chemicals where they should be. On the other hand, you can have a situation like Byrdie where it doesn't work, or the first 5 they try don't work, and so on. None of us are doctors or psychiatrists, though!

I guess I tend towards seeking out a professional opinion if you're worried since at least then you're talking to someone who (hopefully) knows what they're talking about. At least I always feel better that way than just guessing. If what they say doesn't ring true, get another opinion! We didn't settle my stuff out, really, until my doc sent me to the specialist. He knew she would know better than him since he's a general practitioner.
Sometimes self diagnosing over the internet, or even good intentioned advice from friends (including us!), can make things seem much worse than they really are or otherwise end up being wrong for your actual situation. I hope you find an answer soon, though, it's super frustrating to not be sure what's wrong or what to do with it.

[Starfish1]

El :hug: I'm so sorry you have been feeling blue. That's no fun. I was like that a couple weeks ago. But I am so so happy you have your sweet horse (and us) to help you feel better. I was just confiding in a friend today that I am perfectly happy when I am home alone with my animals. They never cause me to feel bad about myself. Unconditional love is so nice. I thank God for animals.

Dutch, I am sorry you are feeling worried too, but glad you are seeking answers. I agree with LavB that you really need to find a good doctor you can trust for a proper diagnosis. Hopefully, with a little more Alcohol-free time your depression will clear on its own. I know mine certainly has each time I have gotten some sober time under my belt.

Hope everyone has a good evening!

[KENSHO]

So Kensho, I researched a bit on dopamine and drug addiction, and am not too happy with what I read. Please help me out and guide me to some other research, I watched this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9F5wpvq2h0

Wow Dutch. This guy's accent is something! I didn't watch a lot of the video, but guess the research I was referring to is more geared toward positive approaches that boost dopamine and curb cravings. I found that studying dopamine deficiencies in general made me feel broken, and made me want to drink even more. We all look at this differently, but I guess I personally believe we have all been dealt a hand that we can solve and work with. So my angle is not to focus on what's not working, but rather boost what is. I purchased an online book awhile back that talks about balancing brain chemistry by means of better developing the key areas of life: sleep, intimacy, friends, diet, spirituality, etc. It's called the "Clean and Sober Program" by Cynthia Perkins, and she has been sober 25 years. She takes a holistic approach. Some of her diet recommendations are a little extreme, but I like her belief that happiness stems from many areas of our lives working well. If you or anyone has interest in it, PM me and we can talk more.

I hope you hang in there. I experienced several years of depression as a child/adolescent. I took prozac for 4 years and felt fairly numb. It was when I made some changes in my life to become more stable, exercise more, eat better, etc. (I know you do those things well!!) that things looked up for me. I know I was chemically depressed - and I believe it was because of the instability of living out of a bag, going between divorced parents since age 4 (Tuesdays and every other weekend at my Dad's). I also felt enormous stress from social anxiety. I think everyone has different needs with depression, so I don't pretend that my approach would fit everyone. But medication did't help me - I helped me (and maybe time?) At least that is what I believe I haven't had any substantial periods of depression since high school. Anyway - her stuff is worth reading, if only to inspire a different point of view.

Take care Everyone - and DON'T DRINK.

[available]

Morning nest

Finally getting some beautiful sunny days on the weekends then back to cold but not rugging up like a month ago so the weather is on the improve thank goodness.

Belated happy birthday Kensho and great work on 30 days.

Dutch breath and breath some more. The first year of being sober is the hardest and we will all vouch for that. The second year is getting ourselves more in tune with our emotions and life starts to even out and we find we have learned new ways to deal with life. I went back on ad's this year as watching my friend die was totally doing my head in, i do what i need to do and still take one day at a time. I was scared i would relapse in my first year but listening to the wise words of the old timers telling me to take each day as it comes and stop worrying worked. Only I can take that first drink, only I can relapse. I still worry about things but tell myself that what will be will be, worrying is not going to make anything better in the big scheme of life.

I dont read the sciences of why i am an alcoholic, i just accept that i am. The only thing i need to do each day is not drink and be accountable on here by reading or watching an occasional doco or chatting to the ones that understand on where i dont want to be!

Today life is good, i dont drink, i dont want to drink, those intense thoughts of al have long gone, the door is closed, it could open again but i am doing everything in my power to keep it closed. I could not imagine coming on here and saying i have drank, i cant even think about how disappointed my children would be and therefore i will never drink. The rest of the shit in life i deal with sober and try not to get anxious. i was popping xanax like they were going out of fashion when i drank, the last one i had was the hot air balloon ride, my how times have changed!

Have a great weekend. x

[Lavande]

Good evening Nesters,

I have my two grandsons here overnight, ages 4 & 6. They must have been tired or something because they went to bed without ay argument! Ha Ha!!

Eloise, Dutch & anyone else dealing with anxiety & depression - trust me, you're not alone. I'll bet most of us have dealt with one or the other or both at some point. I know I sure did & it was crippling towards the end. My GP put me on Lexapro & it did prevent me from wanting to crawl out of my skin BUT it left me numb & still wanting to drink. My problems didn't go away with the medicine. I had a lot of issues with side effects too so I weaned off & decided to take a more natural (herbal supplement). A few months later I felt calm enough to get serious about quitting AL for good & I did. The bottom line here is that we all have to find what works best for each of us. Herbal supplements, mindfuness, hypnotherapy, talk therapy, etc. - just pick & choose & see what works for you. Spending time out in nature & with animals is great too. Just keep trying until you find your way out.

Wishing everyone a safe & comfy night in the nest!

Lav

[Byrdlady]

Good morning, Nesters!
Keeping busy today with a chocolate cake. I promised a friend one for her birthday so today Im making good on the promise.
Hope evryone has a peaceful day! Bydrie

[Matt M.]

Howdy- yes we really say that in Texas..

Just off double shift, home today then back on tomorrow.
I had mentioned last week that I was going to see a therapist for my anxiety, insomnia issues. It went very well, and she has given me some great advice and a little homework to do. I really liked the way she immediately excepted how I had been getting my support and that I was obviously utilizing our site and working with others to the fullest, mostly because although I'm having these issues, I don't have a desire to drink them away, or a desire to drink at all for that matter.. She recommends AA, she also stated she recommends support groups of all kinds. I was afraid it was going to be more of a push to do the more traditional AA methods and it wasn't at all.
Keep in mind I am not anti AA, it saved my father,mother, sister and others, I read the big book often and follow the majority of the principles, I have people in here I consider sponsors/mentors. Difference being I don't go to meetings, my meetings are here.
Basically I'm going to do a little house cleaning or moral inventory similar to a 4th step, with her on my next visit. Time to get rid of things that linger, resentments, guilts etc.
At the end of our hour she told me she felt that my biggest resentment was at myself, really hit me hard.
My wife had told me several months ago that she was proud of me and had forgiven me for my drinking carnage, but I had not forgiven myself..

I see this as work in progress, I practiced drinking for many years, that's a lot of poison. We are resilient beings, but some of it's going to take some time. ...

That is all.
Stay hard freaks!

[Guitarista]

Yo!

Sounds like a positive first session Matt.

A bit fluey here on a sunday morning, but aside from that, life is pretty good. Keeping the internal balance flowing nicely.

The weekend ain't no ticket to boozeville see. :horn: