Newbies Nest

[Guitarista]

Well done Hypernova.

[j-vo]

Idefineme, congrats on getting through the second day! Keep on and on...

Glad to see you're in such a great place today, Kensho. You sound awesome.

Mr. V, I have seen three people in my life almost die from alcohol. Well, one did eventually, my FIL. He drank a lot, and was diagnosed with cirrohsis of the liver. I think he sneak drank even after the diagnosis. He eventually lost the battle. Another...my aun'ts boyfriend was 42. He had severe cirrohisis of the liver and they didn't think he'd make it. The only thing that saved him was his young age. He was so yellow for a long while, and for over a month, he had high levels of something (can't remember the name) he didn't even know his name. He ended up going in and out of the hospital many times. He's 61 now, but his health is really bad. Circulation is really bad and his legs look like he's bruised from head to toe. Once that severe cirrohsis get you, the quality of life will never be the same, from what I've seen. And I am afraid of that. I'm glad I've seen it and am afraid. One more person, my neighbor. She was also 42, three children, and diagnosed with severe cirrohsis. Her quality of life also isn't great. Scary, and I think we need to think of those things when we want to pick up a drink. IT CAN GET THAT BAD!!!! Don't ignore it and pretend it won't happen. We are not immune to this disease.

NS, yes, this quit does feel very different, and I'm going to use my tools like they're going outa style! Thank you.

So many great posts. This nest is on fire!!!!

[lex]

It's interesting to note the overall state of positivity the abstinence forums have vs moderation ones. Rarely do you see people talking about transformed lives, mended relationships and happiness & joy in the moderation forums as you do here.

LostSoul- So true, so true.

Lex

[idefineme]

Thanks for the encouragement and/or the sharing of stories everybody!
Day two is almost at a close, thank God! I was rather tired and cranky today, I'm sure in part due to lack of sleep, and in part due to quitting drinking and thoughts of "never" again. I want to resist that thought, and if i can be honest with you all, reading about total abstinence got me all hot under the collar. Is that denial? Maybe, but I just wanted to be honest about how I was feeling when reading posts just now. I have every intention to keep this going for at least the 30 days I've committed myself. I just have to tell you that I have a very stubborn streak and when people start telling me what I should or shouldn't do well, it turns me right off. If people start insisting it's this way or no way, I shut them out. Please, I don't want or need anybody to preach to me and try to talk me out of how I'm feeling, because it's just the way I am. And it's not my intent to tell you to stop posting your thoughts and experiences. I know this is something I need to work with. If anything, I'm posting how I feel in case anybody else feels like that. Like "if everybody here feels like total abstinence is the only way, then maybe I really don't belong here". So please, no preaching. I'm just sharing my feelings. I see my therapist tomorrow and you can bet I'll talk about this with him. I know he will be thrilled that I'm actually taking steps towards drying out.

Keep posting and sharing, just realize not everybody is gonna like what you say or think, for whatever rational or irrational reason. I'm still thrilled I found you!

[Lavande]

Good evening Nesters,

Wonderful to read all the brilliant thoughts coming from our group today!

idefineme, great job hanging in for day 2!
I think, if you are anything like me you will find your thinking changes drastically by the time you reach 30 days - mine sure did!
Instead of hoping & wishing & struggling suddenly you are feeling stronger & healthier & MOTIVATED to keep your quit going!!!!
At that point I was thinking if I can do 30 I certainly can do 60 & so on. We can all do this together

Wishing everyone a safe & cozy night in the nest,
I have to be up & out early in the AM so I will check in later in the day.
Stay well everyone!

Lav

[KENSHO]

Idefineme, I have had many, many similar thoughts. You are not alone in your strong-willed ways. Glad you shared.

[Pavati]

Hi, All:

Eloise - Yes to all G wrote. You have so much happening in your life, not to mention a horse who depends on you. You got this!

Hyper - WHOOT! Looks like you used this site for what it is meant for. That was a great strategy to wait for TODAY and see what tomorrow brought.

I was listening to a radio story today. For the first time some health economists noticed that white middle aged Americans had a death rate that was going up. For the past 14 years. The assumption was that as we get better with health care, countries with high GDPs have death rates that have been steadily declining, but it wasn't true for that large group. It seems there are more suicides, and in particular more deaths from drugs (the twins, prescription pain killers and heroin), and a lot more from alcohol related deaths as well - accidental overdoses, cirrhosis, etc. It is so sad to me that alcohol is such a prominent part of our society, given the havoc it wreaks on so many individuals and families. Figuring out how to cope, let go, have fun, have a broken heart - all without the crutch of a poison - seems so real to me. I WANT to be that kind of reformed drinker. I want to shout it from the rooftops. But people think I am CRAZY to suggest life without alcohol. I get the strangest looks of disbelief.

Anyway... It actually RAINED here in Northern California today. It was hard to determine what it was, that water from the sky. What a welcome turn of events.

Night, all. Keep on keepin' on.

Pav

[Byrdlady]

Good Morning, All!

Great posts and thought provoking insights, as always.

IDM, thank you for your perspective. Now if you will allow me to be honest....
I see a lot of me in you....and in Kensho. I was stubborn as a mule and I was going to do this MY WAY. I did....but I did it the slow agonizing way. Why? I just didn't believe these people here and what they were preaching. I needed a SOFTER way to go about this...one that would allow for me to what I wanted....NOT be obsessed over AL. I wanted to drink normally again and I don't care WHAT these people said, I knew I could do it.

If I had a do-over, on Jan 31, 2010 (instead of Jan 20, 2011) I would have made that vow never to buy or drink AL again. This is the first day I really got busted by my hubs...andI came clean about the vodka I was drinking. I promised him I would not drink it again...and I didn't. I switched to wine! After all, I didn't have a problem with that.....until I did. I tried to moderate. ONLY special occasions, ONLY weekends, NO MORE THAN..... I learned some very important lessons. At the risk of preaching, I will say that in that year, I never drank harder. I was DETERMINED to prove these people wrong. I learned that there are 2 sure signs you are an alcoholic. #1 When you really try to quit and realize you can't. #2 When you decide to moderate.

Yes, you are encouraged to think for yourself and by all means, take the path that's right for you. But if 99 people jump off a cliff and die and I'm #100, you can call me Tail Lights, cause I'm going the other way.

If you are like me, the feelings I had were not denial (yet) they were ANGER. I couldn't believe I was in this situation and facing a life with NO BOOZE. DAMMITALL!! I should have directed that anger not at the Life Guards here, but at the undercurrent pulling me in...ALCOHOL.. I was blaming the messenger, but I created the mess. When finding oneself in a deep hole, the first rule is stop digging. Same applies here.

I don't like to be preached AT either, and I'm really sorry if I come off that way. However, I am passionate about this. If I can help one person out of Alco-hell, I'm going to do my dam-dest (as we say in the South) to do it. I don't have kids, but sometimes I see lots of similarities here with folks who have teens. We try and set and good example and show them the way, but they just gotta do what they gotta do. I think that's one of the NICE things about getting older....I don't have to learn everything the HARD way now.

We have seen thousands of people come and go from this nest. The ones that comes in with open minds and who are coachable are typically the ones that get sober. I'm happy to say that even a stubborn ole mule like me, FINALLY GOT IT.

Byrdie

[All done drinking]

Byrdie, The part about taking a sip and spitting it out, what a hoot! Robin Williams,as only Robin Williams can, talked about taking a small drink after 20 years of sobriety and waking up in rehab months later. He said after that first sip his brain screamed something along the lines of, "Oh baby where have you been". I know if I put alcohol in my mouth its going all the way down the hatch...no way my brain is going to let me spit that out! I know our Mod friends are going to scream bloody murder but in my way the only way is total abstinence. No question, no doubt, and I say this not as a zealot (the old reformed drinker stereotype), but as a realist. I've said it often, I don't think of drinking as one drink. Never did and never will.

I just wish people who insist on moderation would look at the biology of drinking...will power has very little to do with it. Our brains, either genetically or environmentally, have rewired themselves to depend on alcohol differently than non alcoholics . Point is we aren't wired to moderate. I believe this with all my heart...pointless attempts at moderation over a long career of drinking have painfully and drunkenly made this fact very clear. Moderation only rewards us with frustration and continued alcoholism. To steal a phrase from a popular beer commercial ...Stay "Sober" my Friends.
.

What a beautiful post. Know so well the story of Robin and that's why I agree with Byrdie's philosophy of shout it out and fight it hard because relapse is just around the corner for anyone and one must never get too complacent.

As a former modder I really did believe as you say, that I could learn to control it. I do say it did help with harm reduction overall as my usual three became my usual two. But as you stated, power does have "nothing to do with it". The faulty shut off valve was built in and all of the counting and white knuckling did not help. Because the shutoff valve didn't work, I never knew when I could stop once I started and that became a crazy way to live. Going to events became scary as I didn't know if I could "control" it or if I'd blow it "trying hard to control it" and end up making a fool of myself in some way. From things I've read re the brain for folks with alcohol disorders, we process the stuff differently than people who don't have problems. And yes, moderation only helped me with a ton of frustration. I like your last line "Stay sober my friends" but my favorite is Byrdie's "When I grew a backbone instead of a wishbone" then I was free. Editing this as I just read Byrdie's post above and wanted to add something.

#1 When you really try to quit and realize you can't. #2 When you decide to moderate.

This is along the same line as TJAF is suggesting. People without alcohol disorder problems don't find boards to help with drinking problems but people with problems do. The best that the mod site can do is help folks take baby steps toward helping to realize that they need to quit drinking. Hopefully it will help them with harm reduction and they will cut down the amount they drink. Many who try to abstain for 30 days there, realize life is a whole lot better without alcohol and decide to abstain. I personally am for letting people find their way and if they come to an abstinence board with the delusion they can moderate, (let me clarify: come to an abstinence board really wanting to moderate and not quit at the present time) gently lead them to the mod forum and eventually they may end up right here like I did. Believe me, they are reading the abstinence boards as well because they know they have a problem, and I think in their hearts they question if moderating can work, because the truth is...it can't with alcohol disorders. As was quoted on another forum, "Virgins don't take pregnancy tests". Well folks with alcohol problems don't search out recovery sites. For folks wanting to quit and struggling to do so or trying to still listen to that voice of the occasional drink, well then, reality bites and you're going to come across some tough customers here suggesting otherwise (all with love of course).

Idaho, I agree, I wish there were more help for addiction problems overall. I'm going to read your post as Cowboy suggested sometime today.

Stay "empowered" my friends.

~ Addy (All Done Drinking)

[Mr Vervill]

Thanks for the encouragement and/or the sharing of stories everybody!
Day two is almost at a close, thank God! I was rather tired and cranky today, I'm sure in part due to lack of sleep, and in part due to quitting drinking and thoughts of "never" again. I want to resist that thought, and if i can be honest with you all, reading about total abstinence got me all hot under the collar. Is that denial? Maybe, but I just wanted to be honest about how I was feeling when reading posts just now. I have every intention to keep this going for at least the 30 days I've committed myself. I just have to tell you that I have a very stubborn streak and when people start telling me what I should or shouldn't do well, it turns me right off. If people start insisting it's this way or no way, I shut them out. Please, I don't want or need anybody to preach to me and try to talk me out of how I'm feeling, because it's just the way I am. And it's not my intent to tell you to stop posting your thoughts and experiences. I know this is something I need to work with. If anything, I'm posting how I feel in case anybody else feels like that. Like "if everybody here feels like total abstinence is the only way, then maybe I really don't belong here". So please, no preaching. I'm just sharing my feelings. I see my therapist tomorrow and you can bet I'll talk about this with him. I know he will be thrilled that I'm actually taking steps towards drying out.

Keep posting and sharing, just realize not everybody is gonna like what you say or think, for whatever rational or irrational reason. I'm still thrilled I found you!

This is also why we say, one day at a time. 30 days can seem like forever just starting out. Hell, just try one hour at a time.

[LostSoul33]

IDefineMe, congrats on day 2 and please know your perspective is 100% welcome. We all have our own journey.

I don't know about you but Im on my 18th quit.

Stubborn doesn't even begin to describe me; I do things my way and when Im ready; if you tell me to do something, Ill probably find a way or reason not to and on top of that, prove you wrong; have always been more of a leader and pride myself on that fact that I don't conform.

Like I said, Im on my 18th quit.

My thinking, and doing things my way, got me here. This is what here looks like: Ive lost my job, friends, love of my life, health insurance and finances. The most important things to me are: the love of my life, friends, career and finances. Oh and since I was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago, health insurance is a big one too.

If you ask me how long I intend to stay sober, Id be lying if I said forever. Ive never made it past 60 days before so who says I can now. I can't imagine not drinking champagne on New Years, not going to another Happy Hour or not being able to drink at my wedding. I have my whole life ahead of me, and Ill go crazy thinking about the future. But the beauty is, I don't have to. I don't have to think about anything else other than today.

Because like all of us, today is all Ive got.

[KENSHO]

Idefineme, as someone who has been around the block here a couple of times now, I can attest that the people here who are speaking strongly do so only because they have been around the block more times than me - and are trying to help. However, I can also attest to being one of the ones who has to go around the block myself. I have a feisty streak that means I think for myself and have to learn the hard way. That’s just the way I do it. I believe it is possible to moderate for one in a thousand (or more) people. I can’t. Only YOU can figure out where you belong on the spectrum, and what will help you. Might I suggest that you take in what you read and evaluate it, keep what you want, and let the rest go? And read up on alcohol and addiction - so you formulate your own understanding as it applies to you? There is SO much information on this site.

Though most everyone here started by googling “how to quit drinking” or something similar, I believe we each need to come to terms with different things in order to achieve our google search. For some, the leap to “just stop drinking” isn’t as obvious (but be careful of rationalizing your way out of addressing your problem). Let us know what your goals are. We will try to help however we can. People here have hearts of gold, and aren’t here for power trips or because they have no other lives - they have been where you are and want to help.

[NoSugar]

After trying desperately and unsuccessfully to outwit, out-think, and overpower an addiction on my own, I finally took an enormous leap of faith, let go of my ego and supposed intellect, and decided to trust others who had accomplished what I wanted even though I was very skeptical of what they were saying. And I was skeptical of some of them -- they drank more than I did, had had more repercussions from drinking than me, and didn't seem to have as functional of a life in spite of drinking as I perceived myself to have. I was arrogant and thought I was "better than".

Gratitude was going to help me stop drinking??? It turned out to be the root of the solution. Listen to those mindless AA-based platitudes like HALT and One-day-at-a-Time?? Well, they work and are repeated for that very good reason. Helping others to help myself?? I'm talking to myself when I write to others, organizing my thoughts and reminding myself - literally rewiring my brain - that I don't drink. Never drink again?? No, I never have to do that and it is one of the great joys of my life.

The former addicts who passionately promote abstinence on MWO have no incentive to do that other than to help others get free and to reaffirm their commitment to themselves. I always trust most the advice I get from people who have nothing to gain by my taking it. That's what is happening here - we're not lying about the changes in our lives or how we got here. Read and take away what works for you - there are many ways out. Whether you do or don't won't really affect us (other than making us sorry we weren't able to reach you) but it can make all the difference for you and the people you love.

Please don't rebel because we're too enthused or seem to be telling you what to do. We are enthused - to overcome addiction is to truly be born again so forgive us for pushing too hard sometimes.

Addiction is a great unifier. In this respect, we are much more alike than different. The initiation and progression of the problem are predictable, as are the consequences of not stopping. People who have been here awhile have seen the same story play out over and over again and are just trying to warn you. There's no reason to try and reinvent this particular wheel. Even if you see yourself as smarter, more sophisticated, less addicted, or more deserving of a drink because of your much tougher than the rest of us circumstances, please let it go. What is needed are things that are not natural or comfortable for many of us over-achieving perfectionists: surrender and humility. You would not believe what a relief they are.

All the best to all of us, NS

[Matt M.]

Thanks for the encouragement and/or the sharing of stories everybody!
Day two is almost at a close, thank God! I was rather tired and cranky today, I'm sure in part due to lack of sleep, and in part due to quitting drinking and thoughts of "never" again. I want to resist that thought, and if i can be honest with you all, reading about total abstinence got me all hot under the collar. Is that denial? Maybe, but I just wanted to be honest about how I was feeling when reading posts just now. I have every intention to keep this going for at least the 30 days I've committed myself. I just have to tell you that I have a very stubborn streak and when people start telling me what I should or shouldn't do well, it turns me right off. If people start insisting it's this way or no way, I shut them out. Please, I don't want or need anybody to preach to me and try to talk me out of how I'm feeling, because it's just the way I am. And it's not my intent to tell you to stop posting your thoughts and experiences. I know this is something I need to work with. If anything, I'm posting how I feel in case anybody else feels like that. Like "if everybody here feels like total abstinence is the only way, then maybe I really don't belong here". So please, no preaching. I'm just sharing my feelings.

IDM- I think it is great that we have a place where we can cuss and discuss our feelings. Allow me to speak my peace in an effort to shed some light.

If people start insisting it's this way or no way, I shut them out. Please, I don't want or need anybody to preach to me and try to talk me out of how I'm feeling, because it's just the way I am.

I'm betting not one person in these rooms have or had any intentions on downplaying or wanting to change "Your feelings" like mostlyall of us in here, we have been in the viscous cycle of quit: drink >realize we can't drink> reach out for help> get a few days or months AF> start believing it will be different this time> drink again> realize we can't drink etc,etc,etc....The reason I can post that little algorithm is because I lived it for damn near 10 years, it nearly cost me everything and I mean every fucking thing.
So if a person like yourself joins here, becomes engaged here, shares their stories here, the end result will be people responding to you with proven successful tools to help achieve that goal, and maybe just maybe we can be of assistance in helping to stop the insidious, disease.

I'm posting how I feel in case anybody else feels like that. Like "if everybody here feels like total abstinence is the only way, then maybe I really don't belong here

If you or anyone else for that matter has what I have, alcoholism, or if that's to harsh,- I desire to stop drinking but can't, battling to moderate...If any of these fit you or anyone else. Total abstinence is the only way and if your looking for a different approach or kinder gentler advice, you may very well not be in the right place. From what I can tell you are in the right place and I hope you'll stick around.
We don't always have to agree with each other, however in my opinion, aand I know opinions are like Ass holes-everybody has one, I believe if we have searched and found our way to a Alcohol addiction site and we continue to struggle, it's time to get out of the comfort zone, roll up or sleeves, take our feelings of our shoulders and take back the our lives and enjoy what small amount of time we have left in this world.
Stay Hard my friend!

[idefineme]

I'm at work and can't stay long, but I HAVE to respond. I TRULY (really, really, really, really, really) appreciate what everybody is saying and intentions are acknowledged. None of you know me, so you can't know that it's not my intention to inbibe at this point, so all is well on this front (knock on wood). And, mostly, you can't know that I am NOT rebelling, so please don't consider my voicing my opinion as a type of rebellion. I beg you, don't assume that! I'm just expressing myself. I CERTAINLY don't think I'm better than anybody else, in fact I have the opposite problem. And I DON'T think anybody is being over-enthusiastic. I just don't want to be misunderstood here. At this point, it seems I haven't really communicated myself so well. Gotta go. Each of you and your intentions are appreciated. It's just, you're kinda doing exactly what I asked you not to do. I know you care, that is evident! Have a good one!