Newbies Nest

[NoSugar]

It's just, you're kinda doing exactly what I asked you not to do.

My posts often are sparked by an individual but are meant in general. As I said, we are all more alike than different. Most of us absolutely do not want to be told what to do. At least 2 people chimed in after you affirming the similarity. That is why there is such a chorus of "me toos!" on threads where we recount the crazy, ridiculous, sneaky things we did and thought we were the only ones who were so stupid and sly. Please don't feel singled out -- your post sparked a good conversation, I think. I'm glad you're here.

[abcowboy]

Idef, you’ve got a great discussion going, thank you! And even if all the opinions and advice given isn’t all to your liking, and if what you are saying isn’t all to our liking, there are lurkers and guests who may get something from the entire conversation, and that’s a fantastic thing!

I’m like you, stubborn, bull-headed, don’t always listen to what others say to me. It is what it is and I am who I am and you are who you are. But my attitude has changed, I don’t necessarily agree with everything that is said, but things around here are spoken in the spirit of helping and supporting, so you take what you need and leave the rest. I’m not here to judge anybody, we all have to find our own way out, whatever that may be and from whatever that may be.

Most people know that I take a hard line between moderator’s and alcoholics. To me, there is no such thing as a moderator. That’s just my opinion, you are either an alcoholic or you’re a normal person. If you have a calendar posted on your fridge door where you track how many drinks you have, and gauge your alcohol intake based on that calendar, you have a problem, you just haven’t admitted it yet and cling to the hope that you can one day be a normal drinker. I remember reading a quote somewhere “a normal person can stop at one drink because he doesn’t have a voice in his head telling him he can”, and that quote fits me to a tee! I think it’s treetops who doesn’t like the term “alcoholic” and I don’t much like it either. I have started using the term AUD that spiritfree always uses, and if people ask me why I don’t drink or quit drinking, I tell them that I suffer from AUD and explain what it is. Something that I found online and made a world of sense to me…..

"What are symptoms of an alcohol use disorder?

A few mild symptoms — which you might not see as trouble signs — can signal the start of a drinking problem. It helps to know the signs so you can make a change early. If heavy drinking continues, then over time, the number and severity of symptoms can grow and add up to an "alcohol use disorder." Doctors diagnose an alcohol use disorder when a patient's drinking causes distress or harm. See if you recognize any of these symptoms in yourself. And don't worry — even if you have symptoms, you can take steps to reduce your risks.
In the past year, have you:

• Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?
• More than once wanted to cut down or stop drinking, or tried to, but couldn't?
• More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or having unsafe sex)?
• Had to drink much more than you once did to get the effect you want? Or found that your usual number of drinks had much less effect than before?
• Continued to drink even though it was making you feel depressed or anxious or adding to another health problem? Or after having had a memory blackout?
• Spent a lot of time drinking? Or being sick or getting over other aftereffects?
• Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?
• Found that drinking—or being sick from drinking—often interfered with taking care of your home or family? Or caused job troubles? Or school problems?
• Given up or cut back on activities that were important or interesting to you, or gave you pleasure, in order to drink?
• More than once gotten arrested, been held at a police station, or had other legal problems because of your drinking?
• Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?


It’s great to see this discussion, for everyone. We never stop learning as long as we keep our minds open to new ideas and suggestions!

[Lavande]

Good afternoon Nesters

That's quite some questionnaire Cowboy!
As I read through it I was reminded of a big common denominator we all seem to share - denial!
I really intended to learn to drink like a 'normal person' when I first found MWO. At that point I didn't even know another adult non-drinker, couldn't imagine being one! That was where the giant leap of faith came in, thank goodness it did too. I was so deep into denial there was really no possible way out for me but acceptance & choosing to go AF.
Now, after all this time I know it was fear that was holding me back.

There is nothing to fear, everything is going to be OK!
Be brutally honestly with yourself, discard all the BS & trust that you know the right thing to do for yourself

Wishing everyone a wonderful AF Tuesday!

Lav

[All done drinking]

I just realized today as I was posting cowboy that I don't like the term "alcoholic" either and found myself using alcohol disorder today. Like the acronym of AUD but think a lot of folks won't know what means whereas writing it out as alcohol disorder is a little clearer, but that's just my opinion. In time, we'll be throwing that acronym around like AF, etc. and think nothing of it.

I really like your post today. I'd like to add to this discussion by saying that My Way Out was started as a site for moderators so many folks who aren't really ready to quit drinking but know they have a problem (like I was) will find this thread here (Newbie's Nest) by coming to the MWO site. Newbie's Nest was not really started as an abstinence only thread but is in the Just Starting Out category so it isn't clear to a newbie that it has slowly evolved into more of an abstinence thread, as long timers here know that moderation doesn't work for folks with AUD (there you go Cowboy!) getting the acronym out there.

If a lot of successful AFers here will think about it, many of them tried to moderate too (whether they actually went to the mod board or not,) they tried to track numbers on calendars or change their type of booze to drink less, or made some change to try and moderate their drinking by trying to cut down their amount as they knew they had a problem. It just takes folks a different amount of time to know when to really face reality and know that quitting is the only way they can truly be happy when they have an alcohol disorder. If a newbie truly feels we are trying to push our opinions down their throat, then I don't think there is anything wrong with giving them a gentle nudge to a thread that is more liberal. I don't think it's necessary to try to cajole them into staying if it doesn't seem like a fit for them. I know the tough part however is, it's like being a mother bird. You don't want to throw the baby out of the nest before he can fly and it's scary to direct people to threads (like the moderation thread) where we know it doesn't work. But I read something in a recovery book once that reminded me that I am not responsible for other people's recovery. I can only guide them and hopefully inspire them by my stories, but I can't change them. Only they can change themselves.

I like how the Nest has evolved and enjoy the fact that people committed to their quit can share their struggles and concerns, even urges to want to drink and know that this is a safe place. But if anyone doesn't feel like it's a fit for them, then it may not be a fit right now. I used to peruse this thread a lot back in my delusional days of trying to moderate. What is funny is Byrdie said some of the same things then that she still says now but I view them totally differently now. I have truly had a paradym shift and I'm grateful for that. Even though I didn't post here (back in my delusional days) because I wasn't ready to be here, some of those seeds by Byrdie, NS, and Lavande were planted, and when I was ready, I returned.

~Addy

[ssd858]

Idef, you’ve got a great discussion going, thank you! And even if all the opinions and advice given isn’t all to your liking, and if what you are saying isn’t all to our liking, there are lurkers and guests who may get something from the entire conversation, and that’s a fantastic thing!

I’m like you, stubborn, bull-headed, don’t always listen to what others say to me. It is what it is and I am who I am and you are who you are. But my attitude has changed, I don’t necessarily agree with everything that is said, but things around here are spoken in the spirit of helping and supporting, so you take what you need and leave the rest. I’m not here to judge anybody, we all have to find our own way out, whatever that may be and from whatever that may be.

Most people know that I take a hard line between moderator’s and alcoholics. To me, there is no such thing as a moderator. That’s just my opinion, you are either an alcoholic or you’re a normal person. If you have a calendar posted on your fridge door where you track how many drinks you have, and gauge your alcohol intake based on that calendar, you have a problem, you just haven’t admitted it yet and cling to the hope that you can one day be a normal drinker. I remember reading a quote somewhere “a normal person can stop at one drink because he doesn’t have a voice in his head telling him he can”, and that quote fits me to a tee! I think it’s treetops who doesn’t like the term “alcoholic” and I don’t much like it either. I have started using the term AUD that spiritfree always uses, and if people ask me why I don’t drink or quit drinking, I tell them that I suffer from AUD and explain what it is. Something that I found online and made a world of sense to me…..

"What are symptoms of an alcohol use disorder?

A few mild symptoms — which you might not see as trouble signs — can signal the start of a drinking problem. It helps to know the signs so you can make a change early. If heavy drinking continues, then over time, the number and severity of symptoms can grow and add up to an "alcohol use disorder." Doctors diagnose an alcohol use disorder when a patient's drinking causes distress or harm. See if you recognize any of these symptoms in yourself. And don't worry — even if you have symptoms, you can take steps to reduce your risks.
In the past year, have you:

• Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?
• More than once wanted to cut down or stop drinking, or tried to, but couldn't?
• More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or having unsafe sex)?
• Had to drink much more than you once did to get the effect you want? Or found that your usual number of drinks had much less effect than before?
• Continued to drink even though it was making you feel depressed or anxious or adding to another health problem? Or after having had a memory blackout?
• Spent a lot of time drinking? Or being sick or getting over other aftereffects?
• Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?
• Found that drinking—or being sick from drinking—often interfered with taking care of your home or family? Or caused job troubles? Or school problems?
• Given up or cut back on activities that were important or interesting to you, or gave you pleasure, in order to drink?
• More than once gotten arrested, been held at a police station, or had other legal problems because of your drinking?
• Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?


It’s great to see this discussion, for everyone. We never stop learning as long as we keep our minds open to new ideas and suggestions!

Yes to all! Thank you for this ABC. And to reaching out to me last summer when I first began to read here.

[j-vo]

I checked all but one, acowboy! Jeez, I sound a little excited like I won the lottery or something. Well, I think I may have, as I'm sober!

So many great posts and points to ponder. Thank you all for your thoughtful posts.

[Matt M.]

Good afternoon Nesters

That's quite some questionnaire Cowboy!
As I read through it I was reminded of a big common denominator we all seem to share - denial!
I really intended to learn to drink like a 'normal person' when I first found MWO. At that point I didn't even know another adult non-drinker, couldn't imagine being one! That was where the giant leap of faith came in, thank goodness it did too. I was so deep into denial there was really no possible way out for me but acceptance & choosing to go AF.
Now, after all this time I know it was fear that was holding me back.

There is nothing to fear, everything is going to be OK!
Be brutally honestly with yourself, discard all the BS & trust that you know the right thing to do for yourself

Wishing everyone a wonderful AF Tuesday!

Lav

So true Lav...
looking back at some of my quit attempts, I can remember realizing that I had a problem,realizing alcohol had taken over my life, and realizing I couldn't drink. BUT the one kicker for me was the dreaded "Forever"! I knew I couldn't drink, yet I guess I held onto the thought that one day I could drink again, not sure how, but forever was something I couldn't and wouldn't grasp. Inevitably I relapsed every time. Denial and fear in true form.

Not sure when and how I finally accepted the finality of my drinking but I can say loudly and with confidence, I'm so glad I did accept it. It was a tremendous burden lifted from me. I realized alcohol had done nothing but cause me misery, spewed havoc on my family, and robbed me of many great years with my little boys.
Why on earth would I want to ingest another drop of poison?
Someone posted the other day about no thinking about drinking. I realized for the first time in as long as I can remember I often go days without a thought of drinking and when I do think about it, I often cringe.
There is no greater feeling of no longer being a slave to something, that occupied my every thought, caused me to lie, cheat, be conniving, deceitful...

I'm very grateful for you people and this little group we have!

[kherriot]

Been struggling with AL. Only 3 day AF, still hectic at work but going to babysit grandkids on Thursday for 10 days so no drinking, too busy driving around to hockey games. Never risk it with the kids. (Maybe I should move in there). Oh well whatever helps. Only thing I am worried about is that my Dad passed away early this morning but I have not had a drink. He was 90 and me and all the family agree that I hope I can keep it that way.

[kherriot]

Sorry meant me and the family all agree that it a blessing.

[Guitarista]

Like "if everybody here feels like total abstinence is the only way, then maybe I really don't belong here". So please, no preaching. I'm just sharing my feelings.

Keep posting and sharing, just realize not everybody is gonna like what you say or think, for whatever rational or irrational reason. I'm still thrilled I found you!

I'm glad you found this joint too IDM, and I benefit reading your posts, so thanks.

There are of course many passionate folks here who have found total abstinence to be the best way for them and want to share that realisation with all, and I'm very grateful for that. For me, I see the very good sense in 'taking the AL option off the table'. I can do that for today, and today only. I cannot get my head around any 'forever' at this point, and that is totally ok with me. Today is all I've got and that's cool, I can work with that. So I am just getting on with my life living it sober, getting stuff done that's important to me and that aligns with my dreams, day by day. I don't intend to drink tomorrow or the next day. That's about as far forward as I can project, so I just make sure I enjoy the f&*k out of today as best I can. But it also makes sense to me (through previous experience/trial and error) that in order to get great things accomplished, it means 24/7 sober living (for me). That's just what is working for me right now. I don't care about next year at the moment.

I hope you stick around here at least for your 30 day target, as this thread could well be a gr8 motivator for this. I would never tell someone they cannot moderate and never will be able to, simply because I do not know this. I can assume the odds may be against them if they have had lengthy problems with booze, but either way I will not tell someone they can or cannot moderate. It's none of my business (I will always tell someone they can get and live sober though, because I know this is possible and a worthy goal on a general health front).

We all must find our own way out of this mess. There are many different roads, and I for one do not judge them if there's no harm attached. I don't know who's in denial and who ain't. That's a personal thing. Trial and error will eventually throw up the facts (if you'll pardon the pun) to us. But I think it's important to be careful, mindful, and take care if we are still experimenting with booze in our life.

Congrat's on your AF time friend. That's huge!

Have a rippa out there y'all.

[abcowboy]

Great to see you back Karen, and even better to see you on Day 3! Sorry to hear about your dad :hug: was he in poor health? Just remember about the burr eh!

[Guitarista]

Oh Karen,

I am sorry to hear this sad news. My condolences to you and your family.

I hope you stay connected and lean on us here if it helps.

Take care of yourself friend. G

[Byrdlady]

Been struggling with AL. Only 3 day AF, still hectic at work but going to babysit grandkids on Thursday for 10 days so no drinking, too busy driving around to hockey games. Never risk it with the kids. (Maybe I should move in there). Oh well whatever helps. Only thing I am worried about is that my Dad passed away early this morning but I have not had a drink. He was 90 and me and all the family agree that I hope I can keep it that way.

Im so sorry to hear about the loss of your dad. Even if it was expected or 'for the best' it is still difficult. Strength and peace to you. B

[j-vo]

Karen,
I'm sorry for your loss. Take care of yourself.

[idefineme]

Karen, I am very sorry for the loss of your dad. Take care of yourself, okay?
And, welcome back!