Newbies Nest

[NoSugar]

Byrdy, I'm frankly amazed when people for whom MWO is their only tool make it when they don't use the heck out of this place. It doesn't happen often, though, and I sure would encourage anyone who truly wants to quit, and who isn't using other sources of support, to commit to reading and posting on here each and every day for a long time. Addicted brains have to be changed and unless you're using medication, that is done through changing what we think through our reading and writing. Adding in listening (and changing yet another part of the brain) via the excellent podcasts out there isn't a bad idea, either. I don't have any data but it sure seems to me like people who sporadically check in rarely succeed over the long term - and that is what most of us are after.

I wrote on another thread today that I've drifted from MWO for a variety of reasons. I used to post a lot (to say the least ). For the last few months I've read each day but not had much to say. I no longer read blogs or listen to podcasts related to addiction. I no longer study the science of addiction like I did in the first couple years. I'm really glad that I'm no longer obsessed with the topic but I'm realizing that my obsession was part of what set me free. I'm also realizing that I would be better off with the "maintenance" of active participation in a sober community. Reading here daily may be enough but I can tell that putting myself "out here" by posting makes me stronger. And this is after more than 3.5 years of not drinking. I'm sure that in the earlier days I would not have made it if I hadn't committed to putting everything I had into changing my brain by as many routes as I could find. Like Lav said, when you've finally reached the point of wanting to quit more than you want to drink, you can and will do what it takes.

[tonyniceday]

Hi nesters

I think you're all right about staying on here and reading and posting. I know that there are times when this journey can feel lonely and it would be easy to go and get a bottle. I think of what that would mean and I just don't want to go back there. The lack of control over my own life when I drank was the worst part. Knowing that I couldn't do something just because I was drunk - you know like just going out for a drive or a walk, because I couldn't drive or would be wobbling all over the place if I walked. I couldn't just nip down to the shop and get something because I'd have to speak and then people would hear me slurring. BUT I know it would be easy to just go back there as well.

I think that now that a few people are starting to know that I'm not drinking because I've chosen not to, that they are mostly supportive and that helps too. There are some (those who were previously drinking partners who still drink, but only when there's a "Y" in the day!) who are not supportive and can say hurtful things but that just washes over me now as I see that they probably need help too.

I also think that it is really sad when you've started to get to know people on here, started to see them grow on this journey and then they just fall (or jump) off the wagon. BUT that is the nature of the beast, Al, and addiction.

Sorry, this is starting to go on a bit but I think this place is so important as part of the ongoing recovery process. I can't start to measure how important it is, and you all are, to me...along with my support "group" here of friends and some family (and the meds, to an extent, as well NS - even my Dad, who is not my greatest "cheerleader" says "keep taking the tablets"!).

We may have lost quite a few people, but the rest of us are still here, together. Let's stay strong TOGETHER!

Tony

[okoren1]

complain about others wanting to get numb, then I turn around and do it. I gave in and had two glasses of wine the following night, and one shot last night. I have felt really stressed in general and have been amazed at just how much I've craved the stuff. Until now (since my vacation), I hadn't really had cravings. Testament to the fact that we can "un-wire" the great "re-wiring" we've done.

Kensho, I can relate to this. Curious why the cravings are so strong with folks that have been able to successfully quit for long periods of time. I am going through some of this now, and I could be wrong, but in some respects, the cravings seem stronger than when I quit for a year?

[Mick]

Byrdy, I'm frankly amazed when people for whom MWO is their only tool make it when they don't use the heck out of this place. It doesn't happen often, though, and I sure would encourage anyone who truly wants to quit, and who isn't using other sources of support, to commit to reading and posting on here each and every day for a long time. Addicted brains have to be changed and unless you're using medication, that is done through changing what we think through our reading and writing. Adding in listening (and changing yet another part of the brain) via the excellent podcasts out there isn't a bad idea, either. I don't have any data but it sure seems to me like people who sporadically check in rarely succeed over the long term - and that is what most of us are after.

I wrote on another thread today that I've drifted from MWO for a variety of reasons. I used to post a lot (to say the least ). For the last few months I've read each day but not had much to say. I no longer read blogs or listen to podcasts related to addiction. I no longer study the science of addiction like I did in the first couple years. I'm really glad that I'm no longer obsessed with the topic but I'm realizing that my obsession was part of what set me free. I'm also realizing that I would be better off with the "maintenance" of active participation in a sober community. Reading here daily may be enough but I can tell that putting myself "out here" by posting makes me stronger. And this is after more than 3.5 years of not drinking. I'm sure that in the earlier days I would not have made it if I hadn't committed to putting everything I had into changing my brain by as many routes as I could find. Like Lav said, when you've finally reached the point of wanting to quit more than you want to drink, you can and will do what it takes.

hiya Ns...Ive used this analogy a lot..quitting drinking is like learning to drive from scratch..you want to learn to drive,you study ,practice take lessons,go through the Im never going to do it sagas,the nerves the tears ,the arguments everything...then finally one day you pass your driving test...thats when driving starts for real...you concentrate a lot more on the actual practical as opposed to theoretical,and the need to absorb everything that you did to pass that test no longer exists..however you still need to maintain your driving skills

so with quitting drinking,,yep you want to quit,you do all you can and try hard....similar to learning to drive..all the way along ..its I cant have a drink I want but cant..and all your strategies are designed to block this negative "want attitude"..you read ,you post,you write strategies ,you give in,you start again ,you despair you make excuses..all very similar to this learning to drive scenario..
then one day that "cant have","I need but aint giving in"attitude suddenly becomes "actually I have a choice here and I dont want to drink" this is the point where you have passed your driving test ...so now you can learn to live...learning how to quit drinking isnt the biggy any more its more about awareness ,its living your life again,maintenance and keeping practicing the lessons and strategies to keep you on the road...does that make sense?

[NoSugar]

"attitude suddenly becomes "actually I have a choice here and I dont want to drink" this is the point where you have passed your driving test ...so now you can learn to live...learning how to quit drinking isnt the biggy any more its more about awareness ,its living your life again,maintenance and keeping practicing the lessons and strategies to keep you on the road...does that make sense?

Yes, thank you for your analogy, it does but I think the kind of awareness we need is Active Awareness. A couple years ago I had to go to Traffic School because of my failure to stop completely at a 4 way stop... Anyway, I loved it! I re-learned (or learned for the first time!) so many things that made me a better driver. My awareness about so many things that could avoid a crash or another ticket was heightened. However, it the drinking world, I'd rather NOT run that stop sign and need to go to a special program when I know I can keep my awareness where it needs to be by participating in a sober/sober-seeking community.

[Lavande]

Good evening Nesters,

The nest was busy today, that's great!!!!
The simple act of checking in here daily was #1 on my initial plan. The more I read the more I learned & eventually convinced myself that I could do this . So keep checking in everyone.

Dutch, sorry you are still having trouble with your hand. I hope you get full function back soon. Are you getting any physical or occupational therapy?

Grateful for my AF life & my AC - it's hot here in Lav-land!!!
Wishing everyone a safe & comfortable night in the nest.

Lav

[KENSHO]

Long day here at a water park with the kids prior to school starting next week. Lots of sun and fun, and I'm tired!!

It dawned on me today that the only person that it should matter to whether I drink or not is me. I really, truly am happier not drinking - and I have made peace with all the situations that tempt me EXCEPT FOR MY HUSBAND. He made me feel that he was not interested in me if I don't drink. Well, guess what? He's about to be tested because all I need to do is what makes me happy. And if he doesn't choose that, it doesn't make me flawed or boring or whatever - it just isn't a match. I think I can live with that, so on to happiness. How can that be wrong?

Have a good night.

[Pavati]

Hi, All:

Tony, I quit drinking on Dec. 2 - during the mad holiday season. The truth is that I always get sort of blue/depressed around then anyway, so rather than telling everyone I quit drinking for good, I told everyone I was conducting an experiment to see if not drinking during the holidays would help me feel less depressed. I think people actually respected me for that and mostly left me alone. Of course, I was many people's drinking buddy, so when that dry period kept extending I got a few more questions. It took me many months to come clean to my best friends (other than my husband) - I still haven't with many people. One of my friends said, "Pavati, are you still not drinking?" (she lives out of town and was visiting. Her husband answered, "Of course not. It is a lifestyle choice!" Bingo! Although there are times when the pity party comes out and I think why me, why can't I have one of those casual beers, I close my eyes and remember the awful feeling I had the day I quit. How I realized I really didn't have control, and alcohol was getting in the way of life. I play that one glittering beer out to the end - and I realize that no, I really don't want a beer. I really don't. That is so freeing! Especially with my teenaged kids - I am alert and sober at all times to be the driver, confidante, helper - whatever they need. No second guessing!

I guess I needed a rant. Not really directed at anything. Thanks, NS, Byrdie and Mick.

Hi, Dutch! Sorry about your hand. I remember that roach and in-law vacation and how you dreaded it. So glad you had a great one.

Pav

[available]

evening nesters

A week from hell here, its taking a fair bit out of me studying, working and homework and life in general. i am hoping things settle down. Also going through a "not much sleep stage" which drives me crazy. I will survive though. Having tomorrow off as a ME day and a day with my daughter and son, catching up on stuff!

Lav i had a son like your grandson and i never drank at him either, i think it was my husband who was totally like child number 5. you get to hand him back which is the joy of being a nana! I still cant wait.

I am still here Pav. Funnily enough i was petrified you would drink on me and then i would fail too. Funny how our mind thinks. I also thought if you drank then a great excuse for me to drink too but luckily enough neither of us drank. I certainly did not want to fail you in the beginning and then i didnt want to fail myself. Still dont know why we picked the holiday season to stop drinking and god it was the hardest 30 days i have ever been through but so worth it now but as we know there is never a good day/time to stop, we just have to bite the bullet and create a life without al.

Dutch sorry to hear your hand is still giving you grief but give it time as we say. I know there is no way in hell that i would have stopped drinking for as long as i have if i did not have MWO. Left to my own devices was not doing me any favours and knowing that people actually did not judge me for what i am made a huge difference. The excuses i gave did not cut it with anyone on here, they had been there and done that. The gratitude i have for NS, lav and byrd will be with me for the rest of my sober life. They believed in me when i didnt.

Byrd and NS i think i have a list a mile long of people that have come and gone and i always wish they are sober but sadly the stats are not good for that. Some of us give up on giving up! I sometime think i cant be bothered to post but then i think if i didnt post and any long termer with some time didnt post then who would help the newbies. There is nothing better than maybe saying something that helps. If i didnt 110% totally commit to posting on here 1000 times a day in the early days i would not be where i am today.

Tony you are doing so well. Funnily enough when you have been posting for awhile and sober you get a feeling of who will be here for the long haul and who has not got it yet. You can feel that they have accepted that "this is it". I think i have a mother like your father but sadly she is not really in my life anymore. Maybe one day. We still email and fb but seeing each other is too overwhelming for me.

Well i am off to do some homework so i get it out of the way. 2 weeks till spring here,so pleased about that.

take care x

[Mick]

Yes, thank you for your analogy, it does but I think the kind of awareness we need is Active Awareness. A couple years ago I had to go to Traffic School because of my failure to stop completely at a 4 way stop... Anyway, I loved it! I re-learned (or learned for the first time!) so many things that made me a better driver. My awareness about so many things that could avoid a crash or another ticket was heightened. However, it the drinking world, I'd rather NOT run that stop sign and need to go to a special program when I know I can keep my awareness where it needs to be by participating in a sober/sober-seeking community.

youve hit on my next point ...which I wasnt going to go into..but hey...from quitting drinking you then go onto an active non drinker or a passive one...again similar to the driving scenario...many years ago in one of my jobs,I had to do an advanced driving course,up till then I drove ,no probs and thought I was a pretty good driver...that is until I went for my assessment ...and got ripped to shreds!an example ..when you drive you check your mirror,signal indicate move..not so ...the whole manoeuvre goes something like ..decide course,mirror,signal,mirror,check speed,mirror ,slow down,mirror,confirm signal,mirror ,manouevre..thats not it all ..as I recall there were 16 actions.. and that was just to turn..then after they put you back together they taught you observations...bends,blinds woods ,sun,shade,parked cars and people school signs animals..all sorts of stuff ...then you had to do a commentary drive....mine was thru Hull city and the docks ,ending up in a village some 40 miles away..and this is all before t turns j turns and all the screamy tyre stuff..!
so for me its the same ..some people dont drink ..they have achieved their goal,and the upshot is they maintain that stance,for others it isnt enough,they need to be actively seeking info ,checking ,helping ,advising ,participating in forums etc..it isnt enough just to say thats it..Ive quit..

[Eloise]

Kensho- gosh I can't believe he is giving you crap about not drinking? Has he no memory?! You are better off without alcohol, so be selfish and do what is best for you. It is obvious to everyone. Put you first. My husband wasn't enthusiastic about me not drinking either in the beginning, but he really came around. He sees how much more balanced I am. I do not react to his dumbass ideas anymore by flipping out and drinking a bottle of wine. Solves nothing anyway, then he can say 'do you remember what you said?" These days my reply is 'Perfectly, and I remember your unkind remark as well.' Snap. "Shall we have a cup of tea?"

You know my darker side would go out and do some serious shopping and really give him something to complain about. You know you can put a car on a credit car these days. Just sayin'.
Make sure you use his bank card and buy on sale (no returns).
Oh my goodness- I shouldn't say these things!

Long day here at a water park with the kids prior to school starting next week. Lots of sun and fun, and I'm tired!!

It dawned on me today that the only person that it should matter to whether I drink or not is me. I really, truly am happier not drinking - and I have made peace with all the situations that tempt me EXCEPT FOR MY HUSBAND. He made me feel that he was not interested in me if I don't drink. Well, guess what? He's about to be tested because all I need to do is what makes me happy. And if he doesn't choose that, it doesn't make me flawed or boring or whatever - it just isn't a match. I think I can live with that, so on to happiness. How can that be wrong?

Have a good night.

[Byrdlady]

youve hit on my next point ...which I wasnt going to go into..but hey...from quitting drinking you then go onto an active non drinker or a passive one...again similar to the driving scenario...many years ago in one of my jobs,I had to do an advanced driving course,up till then I drove ,no probs and thought I was a pretty good driver...that is until I went for my assessment ...and got ripped to shreds!an example ..when you drive you check your mirror,signal indicate move..not so ...the whole manoeuvre goes something like ..decide course,mirror,signal,mirror,check speed,mirror ,slow down,mirror,confirm signal,mirror ,manouevre..thats not it all ..as I recall there were 16 actions.. and that was just to turn..then after they put you back together they taught you observations...bends,blinds woods ,sun,shade,parked cars and people school signs animals..all sorts of stuff ...then you had to do a commentary drive....mine was thru Hull city and the docks ,ending up in a village some 40 miles away..and this is all before t turns j turns and all the screamy tyre stuff..!
so for me its the same ..some people dont drink ..they have achieved their goal,and the upshot is they maintain that stance,for others it isnt enough,they need to be actively seeking info ,checking ,helping ,advising ,participating in forums etc..it isnt enough just to say thats it..Ive quit..

And this takes me to my next point! (see how conversation sparks conversation?)
Yes, for some people, it IS enough to say 'NO MORE' and go on with life in an AF way. There is one guy who got started on here and checks in every year with his AF update. That seems to work for him and I wish I could be that type of quitter. I see things from another angle. We all know the rates of relapse are astronomical for Alkies... only about a third of people who are AF less than a year will remain AF. For those with a year or two, about half will fall. If we can make it to 5 years, those chances of relapse drop dramatically....less than 15%.

What I have seen and experienced is that the odds are stacked against us on this, why not do everything in our arsenal to increase our odds? We HAVE this disease and it's a lifelong party. I have seen hundreds of people get sober right here in this nest, but the ones that STAY sober for 3,4, 5 years? Not so many. Do I KNOW they are drinking? No, I don't, but I DO know this disease.....when people are sober, they talk about it. Why? Because it's not easy.

Secondly, the part about conversation sparks conversation leads me to this thought. How many times have you come online here and thought, 'oh, there's nothing happening, I'll just pop in and pop out'. Like Mick said, what if everybody did that? We saw this happening a couple months ago when the place was like a crypt! We all check in to GET something, but there comes a time on a support forum when you have to give back, that's what makes it work. It's GIVE and TAKE. I've seen plenty who come in to MWO and suck the very life out of it.....DRAINING everyone all hours of the night and day, I've seen this go on for months....taking, taking, taking and not turning around to give any support to those behind him/her. If you have one day sober you have something to share! If nobody actively participates (whether you are succeeding or not) then we don't have much of a support forum.

So sure, there may be those who don't need to check in everyday, or month, but as highly stacked as this deck is against us, I'm not willing to take that chance. My sobriety came at TOO HIGH A PRICE. MWO is my only support, and by golly, I intend to use it! Otherwise, I'll have no one to blame but myself.

This is not directed at anyone at all. It's just my opinion, and we all know how those are! Hope everyone has an easy day! Byrdie

[Eloise]

Byrdlady = quality human to be listened to and considered. I think you are just great.

[NomoreJim]

Funny how things work out. All of the discussion here seems to be about using MWO and success rates. I haven't checked in for quite some time but I am still sober. 956 days and counting! MWO save my life when I first decided it was time to quit for good. My hat is off to the moderators, tried that it didn't work. Recently I have had some odd urges out of the blue kind of like a daydream and I have had more drinking dreams than I had when I was drinking. So I am taking that as a sign from my subconcious brain that I need to check in for a treatment. I am glad to see that the ever wise and wonderful Byrdlady is still here. Byrdie I agree with your last post contributions helped me alot in my early days and I still think about them. One of the reasons that I haven't checked in is because i didn't want to be one of those who just read and didn't contribute. I am so glad to be sober and my life and my health are so much better. If today is anyone's day one hang in there it gets better. It takes alot of work and determination but life is so much better without al.

[KENSHO]

Definitely don't want to be just a taker. Sorry if that has been me. I think we all have different journeys to figure this out. Some say it is simple, just don't drink. And that may be the case. But after that, we all have a different set of triggers and issues to figure out. ELOISE, I never had an ultimatum from the husband to stop drinking. In fact, I hid it so well that he was surprised when I said I was giving it up. No one else in my life thought I had a drinking problem. He still hasn't put together my bad behavior with drinking because he didn't know I was doing it. Maybe a little different than other stories here. But it affected ME, and that is the most important thing.

At first I struggled with just functioning without my crutch. Once I got through that a little and realized I COULD live without alcohol (and that I really liked it!!!), I had to deal with the situations that come up: the work functions, the social environments, the camping and dinners and family and holidays. I learned how to cope in those situations. The only one I couldn't figure out is my husband, and I caved. But now, I am at the point that I understand what I want, and he can take it or leave it. I had to come to the point that I am now at - I choose sobriety over him. ME is the most important first, then others. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to that.

During the last week, I noticed not being able to deal with him - being really reactive and irritable. Well, I was drinking at night. Not much, but enough to "check out" a little. But when I don't drink, I am able to converse with him in a calm way, and feel assured enough to calmly assert myself when necessary, and let things go when necessary. It is a much better way to relate to the world. His only complaint about me not drinking is that he feels I have trouble relaxing. I think he exaggerates that, and I think he is projecting himself too.

Anyway, thanks for the outstanding thoughts and support here. When I'm not struggling myself, I feel more able to give kudos and advice to others. I'm not always a good participant. Huge thanks to those who are consistently giving.