Newbies Nest

[Quit wining]

Re: Newbies Nest

LC, thanks for the recipe!

I cook the same way - recipes are mere suggestions, right? Maybe that’s why my culinary creations never turn out the same way twice.

I love the spices you add. I use Summer Savoury a lot plus I usually cook pork sausage until very well done, then add it to the mix. The best part I think is how wonderful it makes the house smell!

I have a son who studied culinary arts and my stuffing is one of his favourites. Or maybe it’s because he gets lots of turkey, stuffing and veggies to take home!

We’ve already had our Thanksgiving here but you’ve got me thinking it might be time to do another turkey.

QW

[Lavande]

Re: Newbies Nest

Good evening Nesters,

Sure is chilly here in these parts, but that's typical November I guess.
Life definitely has it's ups & downs, that's to be expected. We always have the choice to drink or not drink. Not drinking thru some major life sh*t over the past almost 9 years has made me confident - if I can do it anyone can

Pauly, these good folks have given you some great advice, effective strategies. It's up to you to put them into action & protect your quit.
Using your mom's visit as an excuse to turning to AL is not in your best interest. Do what is good for Pauly. Be selfish, be determined, just take the option completely off the table. As someone already mentioned, if she wants to drink that's on her, she will have to drink alone. We all want to see you succeed :hug:

Moon, not sure what is going on with you but glad you are OK. Congrats on your continued success.

LC, your recipe sounds just like mine. I found out last year that putting all those ingredients in a crockpot ensures a tasty, moist stuffing & leaves room in the oven for something else

Wishing everyone a safe & cozy night in the nest!

Lav

[Byrdlady]

Re: Newbies Nest

Great posts, all.
Pauly, do you have some AB you could use to ensure you stay the course? Seems like you had some of that, but I might be mistaken. I am darned selfish when it comes to my quit, I dont care what other people think about it, its my life and I have to live in this head. Imagine yourself getting thru her visit totally sober. Visualize everything she can throw at you, but you emerge on the other side. Facing raw emotions is hard, but its worse with AL. We are all pulling for you! We’ll be right here for you, checking in. Hugs dear lady.
Hope everyone has an easy evening. Byrdie

[KENSHO]

Re: Newbies Nest

I think I’ve hit my limit. I told my husband that I have to stop drinking. I said I have been dreading the conversation with him because I feared he would shame me. I also told him I dreaded a week with his family over Thanksgiving because they have not been supportive in the past of me not drinking. And.... he shamed me. He said, “It’s just such a bummer that you can’t have more self control”. I told him to buy a book on addiction and then talk to me, and stormed off. And I felt very, very hurt. But now I’m just pissed. I think I’ll completely quit this upcoming week just to freak them out. I can’t believe that people who are supposed to care about my well being and support me with healthy decisions would care more about me wrecking their party. Well, time to be party pooper extreme and they can bask in my boringness and get sloshed by themselves. I don’t need to be around people like this.

I was poking around Hipsobriety and found this lovely quote in her recent blog, sorry it’s long:

“First, you asked me how to tell them - your sister, your extended family.* I wonder if you think you owe them something, an explanation that will make them feel better? You don't. I wonder if you think you need them to understand and understand completely? You don't need that, either. I wonder if you think that in order for this to be a thing that your family needs to be in on it, to hold it as preciously as you do? That's also something you don't need, and a sure-fire recipe for resentment. My love, you're doing this thing, this beautiful, life-making, perfectly impossible thing, and you're doing it because something inside of you knows, has always known, and you're finally listening to that intelligence. Do you know how big of a deal this is, how big of a deal you are and what you have done? Do you have any idea how many people in this world have the courage to do what you have done? I'll give you a hint: it's a small, small number. If you want to tell your family or your sister, then I think that's beautiful and important. But I also think before you do these things, you need to ask yourself why you're scared, and what you are expecting of it. If it's validation or acceptance or understanding, give those things to yourself first. Then, give those things to your family second. Whatever we want from other people is usually impossible to receive from them, and usually received only by giving it (think of the prayer of St. Francis).”

Roobs, huge congrats on one year. I’ve not made it there yet. Keep up the good work.

KENSHO - Day 1

[Quit wining]

Re: Newbies Nest

Kensho, good for you for standing up for your quit, as tough as it is and with family involved, it can seem that much tougher.

While it would be nice to have your husbands support, you’re a very strong person and you know what you need to do to protect your quit.

Several years ago, I didn’t attend my sister’s 50th birthday party. I was at that time, about 90 days into a quit and I knew that if I’d been at the party, I’d have caved and been right back into boozing. There were many people there who were/are raging alcoholics and there would have been lots of pressure on me. So, I stayed home and spent many hours on MWO with people who were supportive.

Don’t hesitate to lean on your many friends here Kensho.

QW

[wagmor]

Re: Newbies Nest

Oh Kensho, I'm so sorry things didn't go better in your conversation with your husband. It's very unfortunate that your fears played out just as you thought. Is there any chance he didn't mean his comment the way it sounded? I know sometimes in life I've said some things that sounded dumb or callous or insensitive when I didn't mean to - I was just at a loss for better words or maybe just not well informed. Regardless, I can see why you felt hurt, especially after facing a convo you had dreaded. It sounds to me like he truly doesn't understand that this isn't a "self control" issue. Hopefully he will take your suggestion and read about addiction.

In the meantime, I encourage you to quit for YOU. On the one hand, it can be empowering to turn hurt or anger into the energy to move in a positive direction, but on the other hand I worry a bit about you quitting "just to freak them out." I selfishly (and because I care about you) want you to quit FOR you, for your health, your happiness, etc. I worry that, for lack of a better term, quitting AT someone else isn't a whole lot healthier than drinking AT them (except of course that quitting is inherently healthier than drinking). Does that make sense? I mean it from a place of support for you and wanting you to have what's best for Kensho. I apologize if it comes across any different than that.

For now, keep doing what you're doing. Post and read here, check out blogs like the one you mentioned and find quotes and posts that inspire and support you. You've taken a very difficult step in your own journey and as part of your own self care. I applaud you for that, and I think I'm nowhere near alone here in my support for you. :hug:

[lifechange]

Re: Newbies Nest

Good very early morning, Nesters!
Somehow I've managed to get up before the birds today. I've found that when the girls are with my, it's the only time I have to myself and it's CRUCIAL! to my mental well being.. so here I am at 4:55, already on my 2nd cup of coffee.. ha!

Kensho, the situation with your Husband and his family is difficult. The fact that they don't seem to understand addiction. But as Holly so nicely wrote, you are doing this firstly and most importantly for yourself. You're in a difficult and very vulnerable place right now because you have been trying to hold in there as a "normal" drinker and you've realised that it just doesn't work for you, deep inside you know this.. but I wonder if it's possible, because you've mostly had it so much under control, that your husband and other family members can't see the problem? At exactly the same time you Need them to get it? I'm not excusing them, just wondering. I can't remember how things were with your husband after you'd been AF for a few months? I know it's really hard, and I'm on my own so it's different, but I'm trying to find a safe place, a trusting place within myself, just for myself, where I know I'm ok no matter what and no matter who. A place I can go when it seems like everyone "out there" is doing something I don't want to be doing. I don't know your family dynamics, but I can't imagine you would/could ruin their party by not drinking. I also don't believe for a second that you are boring.. I wonder what would happen if you skipped Thanksgiving this year? Just a thought. Or is it possible for you to take on a completely different role? Behind the scenes? You know we understand why you don't want to drink and are all here to support you 100%! :hug:

Moon, I'm glad to see you back here. I'm sorry you've been having a hard time and hope you've got someone there you can talk to/work things out with. If you've made a mistake and have learned something from it, then it's not all in vain. I'm just learning, at the ripe age of almost 48, that we don't have to keep repeating our mistakes! At least that.. hugs to you!

QW, that sounds delicious with the sausage! I've been known to add some cooked chicken livers (sorry Stella!) in there from time to time.. summer savoury! I had to look that up.. we really only get that here during the Summer to cook with green beans.. in German it's called "Bohnenkraut" which means "bean herb"..it must help with the digestion of beans.? I didn't know it and therefore didn't use it before living here.. Yes, I'm thinking we might have to have a small Tday for 3 this year!:happy2:

Hi to Lav, Byrdie, Wags, Pav, Ava, G-man, Roobs, Pauly, Marylou, NS! and everyone else stopping in and flying by today.. Happy Friday. TGIF.
Hope everyone has nice plans.. I KNOW, am proving to myself, that through all the ups and downs of life, as long as I do the one "simple" task of not drinking alcohol, staying true to my most important truth, I'm ok. Being sober is the very base of my entire life structure. It is literally the only thing that ensures my stability.. It definitely isn't easy (otherwise I would've got it years ago, right?) but it is doable and I'm so much happier and better for it.
love to you all!

[moonking]

Re: Newbies Nest

Hello, my friends.

Kensho, I'm so very sorry your husband said that. You have every right to be pissed and hurt. I'm sorry that he's not more understanding. I know exactly where you are coming from, I haven't been able to tell my husband because I'm worried about his reaction, too. Thought about it a lot, but haven't acted on it. I know my husband says stupid shit constantly. He's not very good when other people have emotions, which, when you are someone who has strong emotions, can be a problem. I hope he comes around. You're in my thoughts, this can't be easy. You are strong and lovely and certainly not boring.

I've decided I think it's OK to share my story. My husband talked to the neighbor's husband last night and I think everything is going to be OK - although my neighbor (not the husband) is still - very understandably - pissed. Long story short, I decided to let my dogs out in our front yard. My neighbor was walking her dog. We do have an invisible fence as well as a physical fence (in the back), which I should have used. I should have known I couldn't handle more than one dog. Anyway, there is a bit of history with our dogs - they don't like each other. Our older dog (who was put down earlier this year due to health) once went after the neighbor's dog and our neighbor's dog got out (they have no type of fence) and attacked our littlier dog not too long ago, enough so that my husband had to physically remove the neighbor's dog from our dog and take it back home. Luckily in both incidents, no dogs were hurt. But this latest incident, as I was wrangling the puppy, our other dog ran through the invisible fence and attacked the neighbor's dog. What seemed like 3 hours later, I got her off, got my dogs inside and apologized profusely. The dog is fine and we've paid the vet bill for the neighbor. The neighbor is adamant that our dog be put down. I spoke with both the police and the vet and they both were very nice and sympathetic (I was a blubbering mess on the phone) and said they absolutely do not put dogs down after once incident.

Our dog has never shown any aggression towards any dog except for this one. I was calling for her to get back as she had her fur up and was growling (I had the pup in my hands.) The neighbor was standing there, with her dog leashed trying to talk to my dog. Her dog lunges/pulls when they walk and I believe my dog took this as an aggressive move and attacked. It is absolutely my responsibility to keep my dogs in my yard regardless of another dog on the road, I know that. This dog will never, ever, ever be outside with me when not leashed. We've bought the supplies and scheduled the install to have our fence expanded to most of our 2.5 acre yard (not cheap, but I'm willing to pay anything for peace of mind.) Our dog will ONLY be outside not leashed if an adult is with her AND she is in the fenced in area. We will also be running the invisible fence all the way around the fenced in area so she doesn't even attempt to escape. She will also be muzzled when she is in the fenced in area.

I feel like the world's crappiest parent (dog and daughter are pretty much best friends), neighbor (obvious reasons), wife (my husband is understandably upset as well), and just person in general. My anxiety is sky high. If the dog is inside with us (which is what she prefers), I'm OK. But I'm terrified a mistake will be made. I keep trying to tell myself it's not like she just makes a b-line for the dog when it's out. She's been outside plenty of times when the neighbor is walking the dog and has left well enough alone because the neighbor didn't stop. We keep them in a locked kennel in the garage with the garage door shut when we aren't home. It'd be damn near impossible for them to escape and we have the garage door set up so that if it opened for some reason when we aren't home we get a text message and we're able to remotely close it from our phones. I also have a camera on the dogs and garage door to ensure I can see them when my anxiety gets high. But this is not enough yet to help me sleep at night or eat much more than bananas.

But I keep coming back to the what ifs? What if in a couple of years my daughter let's the dog out and I don't know it? What if she gets out and kills this dog? I think that would break me entirely. I don't understand how to process guilt and shame and "get over it." I know that's partly why I drank so much, is because when sober I hang on to those emotions and can't calm them out of my head without getting buzzed. But here I am, unable to get buzzed and the feelings are paralyzing. I don't know how to not immediately go towards the worst case scenario. I know logically I am overreacting and this is also a reason for all my mental health issues - I've grown up with a parent who saw my emotion as an overreaction and instead of helping me deal with, told me it wasn't valid or normal to feel this way. So I learned to hide it. And now I'm married to a man who, while is wonderful and the best dad and I love dearly, does not understand this emotion and pretty much says the same thing. I don't know how to describe it, but when you feel something so raw so deeply and fiercely and you can almost feel physical pain from it and no one around you understands and thinks you're just doing it for attention you start to question your entire existence and why you can't just be "normal."

Anyway, that's it.

[wagmor]

Re: Newbies Nest

Moon - Thank you for sharing your story. That must have been terribly difficult in so many different ways. I'm not sure if you were on here when this happened, but my dog and I were attacked by a neighbor's dog several weeks ago. It was one of the most horrible things I've ever experienced, and I know it was for the woman whose dog attacked as well. Shocking how fast things happen, and how very violent it all feels for everyone. I'm so sorry you experienced that from any side of things. We are human, we make mistakes and we try to learn from them. Dogs operate on a system of signals we humans can't always see or interpret, but the posture/behavior you described about the neighbor's dog does sound like something I've heard can often trigger dog fights - that lunging position. It's partly why dogs on leashes behave so differently than when they're off leash.

Anyway, it's understandable why you'd be upset - even hours or days later. I truly think it's jarring to our nervous systems to have such experiences. Please be kind to yourself, learn from the event but forgive yourself. Your neighbor has some responsibility for any resolution the two of you work out as well. They may or may not see that right away, or ever. All you can control or influence is yourself. So glad you didn't drink! I didn't after my dog and I got bitten either, and I'm leveraging that as strong evidence that I can deal with life without al - now you can too!

Hug your dogs and your daughter. Did she see the incident? If so, she might be shaken up as well. Take a few days to be extra kind to all of yourselves and each other. :hug:

[KENSHO]

Re: Newbies Nest

Thank you for your posts QW, WAGS, LC.

Wagmore, I think what my husband meant was exactly what he said… he is bummed that I can’t seem to drink once a week with him, and that I have to hide it. I’m bummed too. But there was scorn in it as well - like, how could I be so weak. What I wanted to hear was “Well, you need to do what is healthy for you, and I support you in that.” He’s selfish. And when I don’t drink, it puts the microscope on him, which he doesn’t like. And your right about not behaving “AT” others for any reason. I just felt like - why am I behaving according to what others seem to want - and screw them. In 10 years, I’m not going to feel proud that I continued my nonsense just to please them.

LC - I SO get the need for alone time. That’s part of my problem - I feel “mommy’d” to the max, on top of a crazy schedule and crazier brain - and that alone time is crucial. Great job recognizing - and acting on - that need. Way to take care of yourself. There’s almost nothing that could drag me out of bed at that hour, so double kudos.

Part of the problem getting family support is that I have been so good at hiding my drinking. All my husband has seen is the 2-3 drinks we have together on a weekend. He doesn’t know that I’ve had 4pm shots, or sneak into the Kitchen to gulp from the wine bottle while he’s watching TV, or that I’ve replaced half the tequila handle in his basement bar that I drank. He has only begun to notice my breath late at night, because I have reached that point where 1 is stupid, 2 is better and why not 3? That was what I was looking out for when I decided to see if I could handle things differently this time. And I DID handle it - and easily - for 2-3 months. It was no big deal. But the brain connections I worked so hard to re-route must have reconnected and my behavior now is to sneak, plan around alcohol, and drink more than one. Can I skip a night? Yes. Can I have just one? Yes. But I want more, and I am devious to get it. That’s a problem. Period. That’s all I need to know.

Moonking, so sorry about the dog incident. That must be stressful. You sound like you are doing all that you can do to prevent future incidents though, which is acting responsibly.

Anyway, thank you for all the continued support. You offer wisdom and consistent encouragement, and it means so much to me that I know all of you understand , even when others don’t.

Have a good Friday!

[Quit wining]

Re: Newbies Nest

Moon, sorry for the trauma you went through. Did your daughter see what happened? If so, as Wags pointed out, she may need some extra TLC in getting over this.

Here, even though a dog is on a leash, if they lunge at another dog or person, that dog is considered to be at large. I pointed this out to another dog owner after his 100 pound plus dog lunged at mine as we passed on a sidewalk. I saw that the guy was having difficulty controlling his dog and silly me, I stepped between the two dogs. As the other dog lunged, I raised a knee which caught the dog in the chest. And the guy got mad at me! I pointed out it was illegal to have a dog at large, that he wasn’t able to control his dog and until such time as he could, the dog should be left at home. And I took pictures of him and the dog on my phone for future reference in case I needed evidence.

I hope the new fencing solves the problem Moon, but as Wags pointed out, the neighbours dog played a role in what happened and they bear some of the responsibility.

I don’t think you could have acted differently Moon, try not to be hard on yourself. And, after all, dogs will be dogs.

QW

[moonking]

Re: Newbies Nest

Thank you for your kind words. No, my daughter did not see, luckily she was napping. I was at least smart enough to know I couldn't handle a toddler and two dogs so I waited until she went down.

I remember you going through that, Wags, and I'm deeply sorry for what you experienced as well. We were lucky enough that no person was hurt and the wounds on the neighbor's dog weren't life threatening. But traumatic nonetheless for all involved. We've noticed every since we moved in (before we even had dogs) that our neighbor cannot control her dog, even on a leash. He pulls constantly and lunges at all other dogs, I guess it's just our dog that decided to care about it. I don't want to sound like I'm blaming her because it's absolutely our responsibility to keep our dog in our yard. She might bear some of the responsibility in reality, but I doubt she feels that way. I don't want a neighborly feud...I think time will heal, it certainly did last time.

It's true, what's done is done. And dogs will be dogs. The fence will help for sure, I just really need my anxiety to stop. That will take time, I understand. Even though our dog will always be behind a fence or on a leash, I think if she walks by again and tries to stop and talk I will politely ask her to move on. Tell her that our dog is clearly distressed by her dog and if she would like to have a chat, to please stop by without her dog. I don't think that's unreasonable. I absolutely should have asked her to just keep walking when this happened, I don't know why I didn't. I certainly thought it, but the words never came out.

Just bad, bad, bad, bad all around.

[Guitarista]

Re: Newbies Nest

And I DID handle it - and easily - for 2-3 months. It was no big deal. But the brain connections I worked so hard to re-route must have reconnected and my behavior now is to sneak, plan around alcohol, and drink more than one. Can I skip a night? Yes. Can I have just one? Yes. But I want more, and I am devious to get it. That’s a problem. Period. That’s all I need to know.

Yo Kensho! Yep, that's all i need to know too. No debate or discussion with myself required or necessary. There is science that supports this, the fact that we can abstain for say, 10,20 years and very quickly return to previous unhealthy drinking levels. Those old neural pathways don't die off, they just remain dormant UNTIL - we awaken them again with our poison/drug/pleasure seeking addiction of choice. Go forth fair maiden and kick some ass! :happy2:

Sorry to hear that Kingy. It sounds like it's sorted out for now. I've had a similar situation years ago with my dog in the front yard attacking a dog walking by. My dog lunged through the front gate at the passing dog. The old lady walking dog got knocked over and leg bitten accidentally in the kafuffle. I was very lucky she didn't press charges, and the cops were very reasonable. She was ok in the end. I was mortified and worried my dog would be put down, but we were lucky. He was otherwise not an aggressive dog, but maybe the territorial thing - dogs will be dogs. Hey, go easy on yourself. These things can happen and are not intentional. You are not a bad person, and your dog isn't a bad dog. Take good care of yourself and know you are a decent person doing amazing things. One example - successfully giving up the booze and staying off it. Not many folks can do that. Legend.

Holy tremblin' turkeys! It's day 80!

Big waves to all.

[available]

Re: Newbies Nest

Morning nesters

Day 80 woo hoo G, you will hit the big triple digits by xmas, fantastic work to you and you sound so happy.

Well no more village idiot to deal with and i could feel the anxiety just drain away. new chapter opening and here we go. he shook my hand and wished me good luck. ten years of purgatory and that was it! Done and dusted and moving on. I think we will all miss the village idiot but i am sure i will still have stories when i have to go to that department. This new job is for three months although i have a permanent contract. So its prove we need me and by the time i have finished those three months i will be there till retirement.

Moon so sorry to hear about your incident with your puppy. I so get the anxiety bit and its hard to settle after such an incident. i always seem to play it forward to things that never happened and never will or what if i had done things differently scenario. Sadly it happened and it wont happen again as you are doing everything to prevent that. Be kind to yourself and know you did your best in an awful situation.

Kensho, men are just awful communicators (sorry guys). I know with my SO that a 2 year old communicates better than he does but after a lot of me communicating how i feel and a break up and now back i think he finally gets it, well for the moment but i can see it is getting better and it will slowly over time, he doesnt like confrontational talks, he prefers to think then respond so he doesnt say the wrong thing or what i interpret as the wrong answer. When we stop drinking everything changes for us and everyone around us. We are not the life of the party in the beginning, we dont give in anymore, we are moody and emotional, we are trying to do one of the hardest things in our lives and that is to have a life we want. I had people look at me like i had leprosy when i would say i didnt drink and i felt like an outcast also (at first) but at the end of the day thats their problem not mine. You are on an alkie site for a reason and if you listen to what others want for you then you will keep drinking. Over time we build tools and start to function again without not drinking being the forefront of our lives but until you find that stage you need to make this your choice, your decision and your priority. Maybe you could have another conversation with hubs and tell him as it is and how it will be for you or write it down. He may not be on board just yet but at least you have told him that this is definitely what you are doing and if he accepts it fine and if not that is fine too. I was so lucky to have such a great support network with my children and here. I can say it was a year before i felt i had control over not drinking, i had done basically all the firsts that we worry about and not killed anyone in the process, i had grown enough in myself to not give a f#ck about what others thought of me not drinking and felt 1000% better in myself, i dont feel deprived i cant drink, i feel grateful i have my life and a chance to live it.

I watched the Green Mile last night and of course the last time i watched that movie i obviously was drunk as i could not remember the last hour plus. OMG i sobbed with that one. i could not believe that i could not remember it until scenes actually happened. i wonder how many more movies i need to rewatch, i am thinking a lot.

Take care x

[moonking]

Re: Newbies Nest

Thanks, G. Hearing others' stories (both sides, like Wags, too) is helpful.

I think part of the anxiety is that this wasn't just a random passerby or at a dog park or something. It's my neighbor, who walks our road with her dog every day. So every day there is a chance (slim, but there) that this will happen again. I mean, when we are not home of course it's even more slim despite what my anxiety-ridden brain wants to tell me. (Kennel + garage door + invisible fence should do it?) I don't feel it's right to muzzle her when I can't watch her.

When we are home (specifically when I'm home) I know she will never be out there, I'll make sure to always have her around or know she's not outside...easier of course when it's cold, because she doesn't want to be outside in the cold!

We can never have someone watch her and I'm going to have to be especially diligent about the kiddo accidentally letting her out. Right now she can't unlock the door by herself, so maybe we just always keep the door locked.

I just hate that I have to think about all this all the time. Is the door locked? Is the dog in? Is this? Is that? I don't want to live in an anxiety ridden state for the rest of this dog's (or the neighbor's dog's) life. We have at the least 5 more years, but probably more like 7-8. That's a long time to be worried at home.