Doctors, Money, and Information

[Cardstock009]

Hello all. Will try to keep this short but I have hree questions/concerns and feel free to respond to one or all 3. #1: Do these doctors know anything about addiction..seems like we get the brush off somethimes..#2: Has anyone gone to a program and been "booted out" when the insurance ran out or you couldn't come up with $5,000 instantly for two more days? and #3: Why the reluctance from Doctors to give helpful and valuable advice such as websites, books, cds, and other forms of therapy and healing. Isn't there more that "go to an AA meeting?" Note, not trying to criticize any group, facility, or person, but it seems like our primary care providers should know at least a little bit more than some do. I think I've gotten more info on this site that the subjects I mentioned above! Peace.

[DeeBee]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Hi and welcome Cardstock.
I can't help with any answers, but I do agree with you on the thoughts as to why Doc's aren't more open to a holistic approach to addiction (or any illness really).
I am lucky in that I found a wonderful (female) GP who, although she had never prescribed Topa for cravings was open to reading the material I had bought to show her and prescribed it with caution and interest.

Someone is sure to pop in and answer your questions.

[OverIt2007]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Hey Cardstock,

I am beginning to think that most doctors do not know much about addiction at all! Recently I went to a female doctor, and through my tears told her I was an alcoholic. She asked me the standard questions, like "have you tried AA?" I said yes, and then SHE just started going on, (not really listening to me).

She handed me a precription for some herbs!!! Holy Basil and Bee Pollen. What the _uck!

I have been taking my "herbs" but that week I went on a serious bender due to frusteration!!!


I guess the point is, We have to be more in charge of what it is we feel WE need. I did learn a lesson, and when I seek out yet another doctor to help me, I am going to be VERY CLEAR, say what I think might work for me (antabuse...have you thought about that).

I think doctors have the best intentions for us (???) but perhaps alcoholism is just too complex to be left in their hands. Thats my experience at least. Maybe others have had better luck.

Regardless, best of luck to you!

[cacky]

Doctors, Money, and Information

I heard in one of my addiction treatments that doctors only get like 1 day of addicition training maybe less. unless they specialize in it they really dont know much about it. its a shame. funny story...i was really struggling with this over the last 2 years and went to my doctor over and over and didnt feel like she was very sympathetic. dont you know just two months ago ran into her at a meeting. she's one of us but even she couldnt find a way to be creative about treatment.

i go to AA meetings. as a matter of fact im going to an AA anniversary meeting tonight that will take up almost 3 hours of my time. i enjoy the fellowship and right now those are the only people i socialize with (pretty pathetic). however, i think AA is such a racket. they monopolize the industry and make it seem like it is their way or no way. its almost like the catholic religion. i have learned so much from this site. you will learn about alternatives, that their are meds, supps, behavior therapy (all of which AA does not believe in)

As for rehabs. They are all pretty much for profit. enough said

[JS81]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Hey Cardstock009,

I don't have the answers to your questions, but I have very similar feelings. My doctor is big on writing prescriptions at the drop of a hat and I sometimes feel that he's nothing more than a puppet of the pharmaceutical industry. He gave me a script for Campral, which I do think helps but he also made some negative comments about rehab programs (saying they don't work) and I don't feel that he really took me or my problem seriously. I mean, I am an alcoholic, I know I am. I almost felt as though I had to prove it to him.

[Cardstock009]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Thanks Guys!

Cardstock here again saying thanks for the responses. From various friends, research, and talk shows I get the feeling the vast majority of "non-abusers" kinda say (indirectly?) Get a grip, just get over it. And some even look at us as loosers and pathetic and stupid. Hey, I've met others a year and a half ago at a rehab facility and came to the conclusion that half of us are geniues. How else can you hide your addiction for x amount of years. Some of us even sat there one evening and figured it out...moneywise...all the millions that one facility alone makes per month. Rehab is a cash cow, though they do help to a certain extent. They say you're cured when your insurance runs out. Please post additional info guys if you come across it. Gonna try to herbs. (No, not THAT kind!)

[puddytat]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Card, couldn't agree more about the treatment industry. I was in a 30-day rehab treatment center for women about 5-6 yrs ago. It was like prison. Most (75%) of the women were referred by the criminal justice system (not me - I was private pay), and most were not at all interested in getting well. The staff forces you to talk about personal things in this group of people you don't trust, such as sexual feelings. And if you admit your bi-sexual -- look out! all kinds of women hitting on you. it felt predatory and frightening. Only a few women were alcoholics - the rest meth, heroin, oxycodone and the like. (being a plain alcoholic was looked down on) I watched one lady get kicked out due to insurance reasons, but most clients' were on the county dole courtesy of the courts

Moreover, AA was viewed in treatment as "the only way" I don't believe the founder of AA, Bill Wilson, intended for his program to be frozen in time, and become rigid, calcified, and close-minded. But that is what has happened; I find AA terribly close-minded and cult-like now. Most doctors will say "go to AA" or "go to treatment". that's it - -not very comprehensive or multi-faceted care. Unidimensional "AA, it's the only way" bull that has been sold by the treatment industry.

I'm SOO grateful to have found MWO. It's a community of open-minded, caring, truly-supportive people -- all who really do want to get well. (nobody on this board is court-mandated to log-on to MWO :-) And people here, starting with Roberta Jewell have so much more in their tool-kits besides AA. I'm feeling hopeful about the future. take good care,
Puddy

[puddytat]

Doctors, Money, and Information

treatment is big business

Card, couldn't agree more about the treatment industry. I was in a 30-day rehab treatment center for women about 5-6 yrs ago. It was like prison. Most (75%) of the women were referred by the criminal justice system (not me - I was private pay), and most were not at all interested in getting well. The staff forces you to talk about personal things in this group of people you don't trust, such as sexual feelings. And if you admit your bi-sexual -- look out! all kinds of women hitting on you. it felt predatory and frightening. Only a few women were alcoholics - the rest meth, heroin, oxycodone and the like. (being a plain alcoholic was looked down on) I watched one lady get kicked out due to insurance reasons, but most clients' were on the county dole courtesy of the courts

Moreover, AA was viewed in treatment as "the only way" I don't believe the founder of AA, Bill Wilson, intended for his program to be frozen in time, and become rigid, calcified, and close-minded. But that is what has happened; I find AA terribly close-minded and cult-like now. Most doctors will say "go to AA" or "go to treatment". that's it - -not very comprehensive or multi-faceted care. Unidimensional "AA, it's the only way" bull that has been sold by the treatment industry.

I'm SOO grateful to have found MWO. It's a community of open-minded, caring, truly-supportive people -- all who really do want to get well. (nobody on this board is court-mandated to log-on to MWO :-) And people here, starting with Roberta Jewell have so much more in their tool-kits besides AA. I'm feeling hopeful about the future. take good care,
Puddy

[Cardstock009]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Thanks Puddy

I am Sooo glad I found this site too. You know, you made me laugh when you said "Just a plain old alcoholic was looked down on." The place where I went, out of a group of 80, I think about 30 were ages 18-23, and they were talking about drugs I never heard of! It took me ten years to get to the point where I decided to do something for myself. I'm glad to know that I really am not crazy. (Well, maybe a little bit if I tie one on) But it is good to know that I am not the only one who makes AA the Almighty. As I mentioned at the top of this thread, looking for ideas of treatment that is affordable! ($1,400 a day is out of the question) Practical things. Also, are there ANY groups in the DC area that DON'T practice the 12 steps and have other alternatives. The AA rate of long term sobriety is below 5%, nothing to shout about.

[puddytat]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Hey, Cardstock, there is a book I read a long time ago, written by a woman who viewed AA as "an immature level of faith" ... the book was brilliant. Will look it up. (can't remember the title or author at this point...)

Not that AA is wrong, per se, just that it is at a level of faith that requests all suspension of reason, and that objects to any and all comprehensive or holistic care.

Be advised, I've joined this same month of June as you, and honestly am struggling.
So, just saying, a fellow sufferer who is not there yet. [that's my little DISCLAIMER]

Best regards -- look forward to knowing you, Puddy

[Anna B]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Hi Cardstock--
I've posted a few messages on this forum about my recent experiences. In fact, just today I went to see my psychiatrist--who is an addiction specialist (supposedly) and I got the same old "go to AA" BS. He refused to even consider any other treatment methods. Apparently, this is a pretty common thing, even among "specialists."

I really don't have any good advice for you b/c I'm trying to find some solutions and help for myself right now. All I can say is that reading all of the posts on this board has been incredibly helpful and has given me a lot of new ideas and information that I hadn't considered before.

And, btw, I totally agree w/ other postings on this thread about the "for profit" addiction treatment industry being a load of **it. It's crazy that they produce such RIDICULOUSLY poor results after receiving tens of thousands of dollars from patients, yet still refuse to give up their dogmatic beliefs about AA being the only way, etc. etc.

Good luck to you and please keep posting.

--Anna

[puddytat]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Hey - found the really helpful book I had mentioned, re: why AA doesn't address every alcohlic's needs, and very respectful and gentle rebuttal, I might add:

"Many Roads, One Journey: Moving Beyond the 12 Steps" by Charlotte S. Kasl (1992)
ISBN-13: 978-0060965181

[Cardstock009]

Doctors, Money, and Information

More Thoughts

Thanks, Anna B and Puddy. It will take me days and weeks to read all of the posts that I want to. I just started this one last night, because it's been on my mind a lot. Thanks to you guys and your stories, I'm starting to see an alarming and disturbing trend. Hear a Brotha out for a minute...Do 12 Step programs have the "system" (doctors, lawyers. politicians, courts...) in their pocket? If so, that's scary and way to much power for one particular form of rehab. I remember after being at rehab for a week (I was there 18 days) some things confused me, so, now me and my sober and smarta-- naturally started to ask questions. Upon asking "what are other alternatives?" they pounced on me! Well, I wouldn't get the brush off, as I mentioned earlier, I wanted to get my $1,400 a day worth and a few simple questions answered was not too much to ask. I was finally told a week later some of the things myself and others posted earlier. I swear sometimes I wonder if AA is a cult, with the "Group" being their God. Can't talk to anyone for a week because "that would interfere with your sobriety" (Pu-lease!) Perfect timing to indoctrinate you into the Way. I know there has got to be other options. I think that the 12 step model turns your brain into mush and keeps one in a perpetual cycle of needing the Group. Which if true is unfair, hurtful, and almost criminal. Y'all done got me started!

[Tulipe]

Doctors, Money, and Information

Hi Card,
I completely agree with you. AA makes me gag. I had to laugh at your pu-lease!

Before I got into real trouble, but when my dad was in serious trouble, I went to a few al-anon meetings. I did learn a few things, and it helped me. However, I felt like I was in a kingdom hall (hope I don't offend anyone) with everyone offering healing hands. I know they are trying to help, and I appreciate that, but holding hands and reciting the serenity prayer just doesn't grab me.
Each individual must find his or her own mantra. Some role model, or idea to keep us straight. Far be it for me to be an example, as I am struggling with my own battles, but I have visions. No, not that kind, silly. Life visions. I hope this will keep me going.

Good luck to you, and I look forward to seeing your posts and reactions.
- Tulipe