alcoholism a disease?

[ccjhernandez]

Hello everybody,
Is anybody else having trouble viewing alcoholism as a disease? I acknowledge that I have a problem, but I feel like a complete failure for not being able to quit on my own!

[Gold]

alcoholism a disease?

Yes, for myself. However I don't doubt that it is a disease for many.

Feeling a failure for not being able to stop on your own is something you will find you share with many here.

Personally I tried many times, felt guilty, ashamed, stupid, different and so many more things. I have found that realising I am not alone in this, and that there is no need for shame and guilt then I have found myself grateful for the opportunity that has been given to me to change things.

Have you given any thought to what you would like to achieve here? For example stopping altogether, a period of freedom from alcohol and then a return to drinking moderately?

:welcome: there is a wealth of experience and advice here to guide you on your way.

[mario]

alcoholism a disease?

Is Alcoholism a Disease - The Evidence

There is little doubt that the disease model of alcoholism has brought benefits to alcoholics/addicts. To some extent it has reduced the stigma experienced by sufferers and has opened the door to treatment rather than punishment. It is the mainstay of the belief system of AA and NA groups who have been responsible for helping many to recover from a hopeless state. However there are many critics of the disease model, both on the grounds that there is little evidence to support it and that it may in fact be detrimental to recovery.

Far from supporting the model, much of the evidence that has been produced is in direct opposition to it. For example a famous study of alcoholics found that alcoholics could and did control their craving and consumption.
In this experiment they were given the opportunity to work in exchange for alcohol and to consume it when and as they wanted. Instead of being constantly drunk, it was found that the subjects worked and consumed alcohol selectively, sometimes saving some for consumption at a later time. Other studies have found that alcoholics (both treated and untreated) have returned to patterns of problem free consumption. These people are in the minority but they do nevertheless represent a significant number. Finally a new topic in addiction research is what is known as natural recovery, that is changing addictive behaviour without the aid of treatment. Many studies have found that this is a common route out of addiction. Indeed one large scale study found that not only is it common it is by far the most common route. All of these findings undermine the validity of the disease model. Even the seminal work of Jellinek, which described the disease model originally, was based on work carried out entirely with members of AA. Hence he was describing a particular type of alcoholic (the typical AA member) and there may be many different types of alcoholics/addicts for whom these symptoms do not apply.
Taken from 24/7 helpyourself.com

[Elpis]

alcoholism a disease?

Is alcoholism a disease? Great question! I say absolutely yes, alcoholism is a disease. Essentially, as I see it, you have only two choices on how you view alcoholism: it is either a behavior or it is an intrinsic organic disorder (and any admix of the two is a disease by default). If alcoholism were strictly a behavior, one where a person simply chooses “A” or “B”, then logic (and basic Pavlovian behavior) dictates that the behavior will extinguish itself when the bad consequences of the behavior outweigh the good consequences. With alcoholism, however, we observe that a person continues the “behavior” despite escalating adverse outcomes, even to the point of death. I challenge that if a person continues a “behavior” despite severe, clear, and undeniable adverse outcomes then the behavior is not entirely under that persons’ control and such a lack of control is the disease itself.

No… we all… people from all over the world… male and female… share the same stories. We fight the exact same battles and come up with the exact same solutions and management strategies. This similarity is not just coincidence. If alcoholism were simply a choice then you would expect a wide array of manifestations and social/cultural variations yet we do not see that. The pathogenesis and natural history of alcoholism is clearly defined and has been known for centuries to people of different cultures, races, and generations – at least a 10,000 year history. The symptoms and outcomes are now and have always been the same – a disease by the very definition of the word disease.

E-

[TranqWilly]

alcoholism a disease?

I believe that Mario expressed the primary benefit of the disease model thusly: "There is little doubt that the disease model of alcoholism has brought benefits to alcoholics/addicts. To some extent it has reduced the stigma experienced by sufferers and has opened the door to treatment rather than punishment."

However, it seems that medical science seems to treat this "disease" as a second class citizen. I recently read a book by an MD who joked about this disease being the only one with a cure that depends on supernatural belief or divine intervention (e.g. Higher Power...). He then used a good part of the rest of the book to defend that cure in the form of AA or other 12-step-like solutions.

It just doesn't seem to get much attention from the medical community, and the standard treatment options seem fairly dated and archaic. Anyone try leaches? (just kidding of course) Thank goodness for places like AA and MWO for providing the means and methods that give us a chance in the battle. It seems that if there is a "cure" it lies more in "wanting to be cured" than in any cure that medicine can provide.

My 2-cents for what it's worth. Take care...
tw

[Theme2be]

alcoholism a disease?

This is a horrible, horrid, vile condition.

I have a history prior.

This is retched .

Left to its own means it is worse than what I can imagine as terrible.

In its grips still.

[JimBeam911]

alcoholism a disease?

I do not think alcoholism is a disease. In fact, due to the disease connotations of the very term 'alcoholic' I refrain from using it and instead prefer the term 'heavy drinking'. Much research has cast doubt on the traditional disease model of alcoholism, which is not to say that it has been definitively proven that it is not a disease, but rather that the main evidence adduced in support of this conclusion has been contradicted by other empirical facts. For a straightforward review of this, see 'Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease' by Herbert Fingarette, University of California Press, 1988. Although this book was published over twenty years ago, very little has changed in terms of the central assumptions of the traditional disease model of alcoholism, so much can be gained by examining the research that has challenged this view.

To change directions slightly, and leaving the research aside for the moment, it's relatively easy to see why it can be tempting to refer to heavy drinking as a disease. Many of us, and many people we know, are by no means impaired in terms of our cognitive abilities, and in most areas of our life we tend to make rational, considered judgments prior to pursuing a given course of action. That, however, is what is so baffling about alcohol addiction. The fact that so many highly intelligent people continually put themselves in harm's way, despite being in possession of the knowledge that it is ill-advised, makes it natural enough to assume that they are in the grip of a powerful disease beyond their control. In short, we often are forced to ask: how can someone so smart keep doing this? The lack of an apparent aswer opens the floodgates for the attractiveness of the disease model. To my own mind, this is a facile solution to a serious and complicated problem. Smart or well-informed, reflective people do irrational or imprudent things much of the time. The latter is how I view so-called 'alcoholism'- poor decision making leading to a difficult-to-break habit in an otherwise rational human being.

This is not to suggest that alcoholism is not serious, as many non-disease patterns of behaviour are clearly risky and worthy of attention. Nor does this imply that the heavy drinker can simply 'turn off the problem'. Believe me, I don't even want to count some of the things my own alcohol abuse has caused me! That said, everything I've said in the previous paragraph, coupled by much credible scientific research, leads me to believe that there is minimal evidence indicating that alcoholism is a disease, so viewing it as such runs the risk of getting in the way of solutions that might help the suffering drinker better.

[ChickenNumber3]

alcoholism a disease?

Um....at the risk of sounding ignorant,unread or just plaiin simple..

I am thinking that it begins as a behaviour,that becomes a disease..
but whatever way you look at it..it destroys lives!

Chicken

[gyco]

alcoholism a disease?

hi C C J H. lot of good comments,i use to argue , if it was a disease,till i went to treatment,one of the best facilities in the world,Homewood, 2nd to none,but then ive only been to one facility,what i lerned there the outside world could never teach me,not even AA,when you get to the state i was at,you dont care any more,and i could stop,but couldnt stay stopped ? ,there are no answers ,your mind starts ravelling,basically your a lost soul,disease i beleive so,my granfather had it,never met him,my mother had it to an extent,but she smoked herself to death,my father had early sighns of liver disease [sclorosis],i was born with jauntice,should of died when i was born,i neeeded a drink when i was born,generation to generation ,it is passed down,get it,I beleive its passed on from genration to generation,sometimes it will skip one,thats what i lerned,and more,i wish you well,hope it helps, gyco

[hippie37]

alcoholism a disease?

but I feel like a complete failure for not being able to quit on my own!

ccj I feel this statement may of been overlooked in the debate of whether alcohol is or is not a disease after Gold's encouraging post and wanted to reassure you that I too felt this way when I could not control my drinking or non-drinking. I was often told that trying to control something i have no control over in the first place is ludicrous and insane. It's like getting in the ring with Mike Tyson and getting knocked out then going back for more. Any sane person would just say "You've got me beat!". Surrendering to this illness/disease, or whatever you want to see it as, is empowerment in itself. It takes a lot of courage to say "Hell yeah you got me beat and I can't do this anymore and I can't do it alone!" That takes great courage I believe to let go of that control and if you think that is failure; then I'm a big failure and proud of it. I've just learned to let go of something that I have no control over ccj and when I'm struggling with that I ask for help.

You'll get all the help you need, you just have to ask. Don't get too bogged down in the whole debate issues at this stage it's pointless. Believe me, when I first came here I did exactly the same thing and it got me nowhere fast.

Love and Light
Phil
xx

[lilnev]

alcoholism a disease?

I am not a single unified persona. I am an amalgamation of impulses, instincts, habits, and deliberate decisions. The rational, deliberative part of me likes to think that it is the only part, or at least the part that is always "really" in charge. Obviously it's not, nor should it be -- we can't possibly go through life deliberately choosing every thought, feeling, and action. If that were the best way, we would have evolved to do that. In fact most of our daily actions are based on impulse, instinct, and habit, and we've evolved to do that because it (usually) works out best. So with the myth of "omnipotent rationality" out of the way, we can describe alcoholism as a condition wherein our impulses/instincts/habits repeatedly direct us to a behavior that has powerfully negative consequences. Is that a "disease"? I don't know -- but it's a definition of a recognizable condition, which helps us talk about what to do about it.

I tend to think in term of dynamic systems, where environmental stimuli "point to", cause to come about, certain internal states. There's a football game on TV --> I think about beer. And internal states can point to certain actions. I feel lonely --> I drink. Perhaps most importantly, the first drink --> the next drink --> the next drink --> etc. Hence, there's a feedback loop in my head, all set up and ready to go, which leads to a stable pattern of mental states and behaviors ("stable" in the dynamic systems sense, that once I'm in that state I'll tend to stay in it; it may be a miserable and ultimately self-destructive state, and the rational part of me may know this, but it's still "stable").

Some people believe they were born alcoholics, and maybe they were. That drink --> next drink loop may be intrinsic. In my case, I think I acquired the condition by repeatedly abusing alcohol for several years. Those links in my head can be strengthened (and hopefully weakened over time) by repeated exposure. I think of a landscape that becomes eroded by repeated heavy rains. The water flows in the same channels, and gradually carves those channels deeper. At this point I've got some deeply carved channels in my brain that start from various stimuli or emotional states and point to drinking. I have to be careful to stay away from them as best I can, lest a flash flood wash me down where I don't (rationally) want to go.

For me, I wasn't very successful in pitting my rational self against that built-up system up impulses and habits that point to drink. In theory I don't have to drink, but my rational self has to prevail every single time, or I'm back into my feedback loop. And my first point is that we don't naturally function with our rationality in charge at all times, even if we have that myth about ourselves. So I quit drinking many times, but eventually picked up again. I decided that I needed to (1) block some of those pointers to drinking by removing the option of getting drunk, i.e. Antabuse. This was a hard decision to take because of my pride. Shouldn't I be able to beat this thing on my own, rationality going toe-to-toe with irrational urges? Eventually I decided that I'd lost the first 15 rounds of that fight, it was time to stop getting in the ring. And (2), connect with other people who had faced the same struggle and succeeded. MWO helped, but I've also been going to AA meetings, gotten a sponsor, etc. Between the two, I've been sober for nearly 6 months now. And so much happier for it, and starting to put my life back in order (what a mess, but that's a story for another day...).

peace,
lilnev

[Cinders]

alcoholism a disease?

I wanted to chime in on this and add to Phil's post.

I used to intellectualize, argue, ponder and do anything except just accept that I am an alcoholic.

I also believe that worrying about whether it is a disease or not is quite simply irrelevant, an exercise in futility.

Who cares?

Not me.

What I do care about is staying sober. I care about moving forward in a positive manner in my life. I care about living well and living sober.

I care about the next choice I make.

I do not care to pontificate or worry what others think or do. I do not care if I have to say, "Hi, I am Cindi and I am an alcoholic." I so very much care that each and every day the next choice I make is to do the right thing.

Caring about what matters keeps me sober.

Sober means I do not lie, obfuscate, shirk or live within myself to the detriment of others. It means I am free to be myself and know when I look in the mirror, I am looking at someone I truly like.

Cindi

[betty boop]

alcoholism a disease?

Cinders;708061 wrote: I wanted to chime in on this and add to Phil's post.

I used to intellectualize, argue, ponder and do anything except just accept that I am an alcoholic.

I also believe that worrying about whether it is a disease or not is quite simply irrelevant, an exercise in futility.

Who cares?

Not me.

What I do care about is staying sober. I care about moving forward in a positive manner in my life. I care about living well and living sober.

I care about the next choice I make.

I do not care to pontificate or worry what others think or do. I do not care if I have to say, "Hi, I am Cindi and I am an alcoholic." I so very much care that each and every day the next choice I make is to do the right thing.

Caring about what matters keeps me sober.

Sober means I do not lie, obfuscate, shirk or live within myself to the detriment of others. It means I am free to be myself and know when I look in the mirror, I am looking at someone I truly like.

Cindi

Cindi ........... that says it all ............ so well .....

You already know that you are my inspiration ......... that post just confirmed it .....

BB xx

[~iirene~]

alcoholism a disease?

Yes, alcoholism is DISEASE!
Used to think it was NOT, until i learned about it and stopped.

Its a disease as long as we use alcohol. The disease can be controlled.
Without controll, the body, mind and soul fall dependent on alcohol ..
leaving us sick. So, chronic sickness is in fact A DISEASE.

Cinders, you say it so well.