Posters from Ireland

[ATLThrash]

I noted that there are quite a few countires represented here-- I was just wondering-- I am half Irish and half Italian. The part of me that is Italian seems (and this is odd) more able to control alcohol-- I only say this because I really identified with my Italian ethnicity for the first 37 years of my life-- my husband is 100% Irish (though American his GF was from Ireland) and I found that as we progressed that alcohol became more of a part of life- especially around his famiily. That is a huge stereotype but I thought it odd-- the more we hung with my family ( the Italian part) the less I would drink. The more with the others-- crazy-- his brothers are insane. Maybe it is just happenstance because he is able to stop (though he has 2 sibs of 6 and a mom who are defintely alcoholics) and it seems that I have a problem. Funny but when I went to school in the UK and travelled around Ireland-- no issues-- I think that emotional issues really take over for those wityh alcohol. It has to be to numb-- one reason I started was to self medicate to sleep. Do any of those Irish who people are always stereotyping find you just started for no reason you can define or is it an emotional one? I think the Irish are getting abad rap as St Pat's comes up for being drunks but I do find the cultural issues interesting!:thanks:

[Anotherday]

Posters from Ireland

There is a fascinating factoid (?) I came across regarding this issue. In cultures where alcohol has been around for longer (Italy I believe for 7000 years), the incidence of alcoholism is lower than say in Scandinavia (where it's been for 1500 years). I don't know about the Irish but they are far north too. In Native American Indians alcohol has only been in their culture for around 300 years and the incidence of alcoholism is very high.

At any rate, due to Darwinism (the theory goes), alcoholic genes have been rooted out more in a country/culture like Italy than say in the Native American Indian population. Hence the incidence of alcoholism is lower among Italians than among the Native American Indian population (where I believe the incidence is 90%).

It may be coincidence, but I am 100% Scandinavian as were my uncles, both of whom were alcoholics and never had children. There is me who will never have children. There go those genes in the gene pool. My siblings all have children and no alcohol issues. Darwinism at work in my family!

I hope this made sense. I do believe I recall reading about this in a book called "Seven Weeks to Sobriety."

[Funny Girl]

Posters from Ireland

This is really interesting. I'm Italian - we have very few alcoholics in my family. I have addictive tendencies though all the way - my mother shows signs of those & I believe had she lived a different life (i.e., not gotten married & grown up in a different time period when drinking & drugs were more fashionable & readily available) she would have had a life more like mine. I have always felt these issues were more tied to mental health rather than to 'genetic predisposition to alcoholism' per se though. I've tried to ask questions about family history, but have always been met with anger when asking her - she's accused me of "blaming" her for "my" problems . . . so eventually dropped the topic. Back in her time, they really didn't diagnose mental health issues - they chalked things up to 'female problems' and people being ' a little nutty' - you know . . . . On the other hand - I've always dated a lot of Irish americans - probably because of my habits - they were all hard partiers. Crazy! Big drinkers & loads of fun - at least for awhile until everything was horribly out of control and there would be no one able to put on the brakes.

[KatieB]

Posters from Ireland

That is a very interesting point..
Culture definately plays a part.. as does what is 'acceptable' within families.. what you grow up with, is what you think is 'normal'.. if everyone is getting drunk in your family or society (like I mentioned in another post) -its seen as 'ok', and any alcoholic tendencies are 'hidden' if you like, as everyone is either the same as you, or worse.. but when around others that dont drink as much, you may be seen as having a problem..
Its all a matter of comparison - same with anything in life.. something is only seen as a problem if you have some medium to compare yourself with.. the universe does not care either way!
Society makes up some rules.. just as families are a like a 'mini society' within the big society.. i know as when I hung out with my ex and his family, they drunk heaps of AL and i wasnt seen as all that different.. but I knew inside I was drinking too much.. thats why I had to break away from that family - one of the reasons anyway.. i was not getting any better.
I think you have to decide for yourself if you have a 'problem'.. the reasons may be health, social or any other issues that may come with drinking too much,
Katie x

[Guest]

Posters from Ireland

Anotherday;818134 wrote: There is a fascinating factoid (?) I came across regarding this issue. In cultures where alcohol has been around for longer (Italy I believe for 7000 years), the incidence of alcoholism is lower than say in Scandinavia (where it's been for 1500 years). I don't know about the Irish but they are far north too. In Native American Indians alcohol has only been in their culture for around 300 years and the incidence of alcoholism is very high.

At any rate, due to Darwinism (the theory goes), alcoholic genes have been rooted out more in a country/culture like Italy than say in the Native American Indian population. Hence the incidence of alcoholism is lower among Italians than among the Native American Indian population (where I believe the incidence is 90%).

It may be coincidence, but I am 100% Scandinavian as were my uncles, both of whom were alcoholics and never had children. There is me who will never have children. There go those genes in the gene pool. My siblings all have children and no alcohol issues. Darwinism at work in my family!

I hope this made sense. I do believe I recall reading about this in a book called "Seven Weeks to Sobriety."

Amazing thread! We have to remember there is reputation, as well, to think about.

The Irish - Happy, Guiness swilling, folk. Can survive anything.

Australians - Stubby in hand - throw another prawn on the barbie

UK - Lager louts!

France / Italy - sophisticated red wine drinkers - but know their limits.

Are Italians the original Romans? Certainly remember (from history lessons) Romans drinking wine.

Like KatieB, I'm English living in Australia.

As AD quoted about Native Americans, we have the same problem here with the indiginous Australians. 200 years ago they were still hunter / gatherers. They now have HUGE amounts of addictions problems including sniffing petrol. People cannot evolve in 200 - 300 years.

Would like to know where England features on the introduction of AL list? But we have so many histories that we could be anywhere between Scandanavians and Romans.

Spam

[KatieB]

Posters from Ireland

Spam,
I might do a bit of research if I get chance to find out when England first started drinking AL/when it was discovered.. i'll get back to you! But I also think it to be a tragedy how when 'white' people came to Australia, AL was introduced and the poor indigenous folk suffered greatly as a result..
Katie xx

[KatieB]

Posters from Ireland

From Wikipedia:

[edit] Early modern period
During the early modern period (1500-1800), Protestant leaders such as Martin Luther, John Calvin, the leaders of the Anglican Church, and even the Puritans did not differ substantially from the teachings of the Catholic Church: alcohol was a gift of God and created to be used in moderation for pleasure, enjoyment and health; drunkenness was viewed as a sin (see Christianity and alcohol).[2]

From this period through at least the beginning of the eighteenth century, attitudes toward drinking were characterized by a continued recognition of the positive nature of moderate consumption and an increased concern over the negative effects of drunkenness. The latter, which was generally viewed as arising out of the increased self-indulgence of the time, was seen as a threat to spiritual salvation and societal well being. Intoxication was also inconsistent with the emerging emphasis on rational mastery of self and world and on work and efficiency.[2]

In spite of the ideal of moderation, consumption of alcohol was often high. In the sixteenth century, alcohol beverage consumption reached 100 liters per person per year in Valladolid, Spain, and Polish peasants consumed up to three liters of beer per day. In Coventry, England, the average amount of beer and ale consumed was about 17 pints per person per week, compared to about three pints today; nationwide, consumption was about one pint per day per capita. Swedish beer consumption may have been 40 times higher than in modern Sweden. English sailors received a ration of a gallon of beer per day, while soldiers received two-thirds of a gallon. In Denmark, the usual consumption of beer appears to have been a gallon per day for adult laborers and sailors.[2] It is important to note that modern beer is much stronger than the beers of the past. While current beers are 3-5% alcohol, the beer drunk in the historical past was generally 1% or so. This was known as 'small beer' and was drunk instead of water which, unboiled, was prone to carrying disease.

However, the production and distribution of spirits spread slowly. Spirit drinking was still largely for medicinal purposes throughout most of the sixteenth century. It has been said of distilled alcohol that "the sixteenth century created it; the seventeenth century consolidated it; the eighteenth popularized it."

[KatieB]

Posters from Ireland

I thought this to be interesting too:

The word alcohol comes from the Arabic word ‘al Kuhul’, and it is believed that one of the earliest mentions of alcohol, specifically wine making, dates back to 3,500 BC from an Egyptian papyrus.

Alcohol is made from a combination of rotting fruit and vegetables mixed with sugar, which when left for a while will produce carbon dioxide (the bubbles) and alcohol. The different flavours of alcohol are produced from plant ingredients, such as malt and hops (beer), grapes (wine) and apple (cider). You will find that the most pure and potent alcoholic drinks have no colour or flavour.

While alcohol has always been central to social, religious and personal use, many countries have experienced their share of alcohol related problems. For example, the ‘gin epidemic’ in Britain between 1720 and 1750 and the thirteen year prohibition of alcohol in the United States during the early 1900s. Even in Australia, it was reported that the European first settlers drank more alcohol per head of population than any other community in the history of mankind. At present, alcohol is still known to be the most widely used drug throughout the world.