Can I Tell You About Me?

[byebyebridgetjones]

Can I Tell You About Me?

Really well explained Pride.
I think that's going to the printer too.

[cherrabah]

Can I Tell You About Me?

Thank you all so much for you warm welcomes and sound thoughts and advice, very much appreciated and good to get to know you. I know Greenie is right about quitting for 30 days to see how it feels .... I have done this before; I know it feels better, healthier, - then something happens, maybe good or bad, and suddenly a glass of wine sounds perfect. Then of course, it's soon back to the old regular tipple.

Hi too to Betty Boop (from the Midlands) and Breaking_the_cycle from England !!



Guidelines on safe alcohol consumption limits that have shaped health policy in Britain for 20 years were “plucked out of the air” as an “intelligent guess”. He told The Times that the committee’s epidemiologist had confessed that “it’s impossible to say what’s safe and what isn’t” because “we don’t really have any data whatsoever. Those limits were really plucked out of the air.
The Times reveals today that the recommended weekly drinking limits of 21 units of alcohol for men and 14 for women, first introduced in 1987 and still in use today, had n

[cherrabah]

Can I Tell You About Me?

Thanks so much for your replies, warm welcome and helpful advice. It feels good to be here and I’ve listened to everything you say. Greenie, I know you’re right when you say try 30 days AL free. In the morning that sounds easy, but the strange thing is, by 6pm – it seems the hardest thing in the world! But I will try it. And a big hi to Betty Boop in the Midlands – and Breaking_the_cycle somewhere in England! Lovely to hear from UK posters!

That was interesting what Pride said about units as in England we have a slightly more generous margin – 14 units for women and 21 for men as opposed to your half that amount – is that USA? Moreover, a recent report admits even our lenient guidelines are merely figures taken a random …

Drink limits ‘useless’
Guidelines on safe alcohol consumption limits that have shaped health policy in Britain for 20 years were “plucked out of the air” as an “intelligent guess”.
The Times reveals today that the recommended weekly drinking limits of 21 units of alcohol for men and 14 for women, first introduced in 1987 and still in use today, had no firm scientific basis whatsoever. The committee’s epidemiologist had confessed that “it’s impossible to say what’s safe and what isn’t” because “we don’t really have any data whatsoever. Those limits were really plucked out of the air. They were not based on any firm evidence at all.”

However we know in ourselves when it’s too much or addictive, and I know you all speak sense when you suggest I DO have a problem, however much I try to negotiate it with feeling ok.

Units for alcohol work out at whatever percentage it is per litre … so that a 5% beer is 5 units a litre, 20% whiskey is 20 units a litre and a 12% wine is 12 units a litre. Therefore a 75cl bottle is 9 units. A bottle a day for a week is 63 units – duh, and I’m not worried???

Yet still I don’t get it. I guess I need help in finding enough motivation … how did you do that?

Love Cher X

[Soulsearcher]

Can I Tell You About Me?

Hello and welcome Cherrabah,
Wonderful people with incredible insight here. While reading your opening post I was curious as to WHY you decided to take a look at your drinking habit. Is it solely based upon the quantity that you are consuming? As for myself, I scored a 13 on the alcohol screening test. It's not so much the quantity for me as it is how the AL I do consume affects me. I all too often had difficulty controlling emotions under the influence of 3 or more glasses of wine. My fiance on the other hand scored a 20 mostly due to the quantity consumed when he does drink.

What was my motivator? An evening of having 8 drinks and becoming out of control. It was and still could be the last straw in my relationship with my fiance. That was my rock bottom, my final straw for myself. I never again want to be the girl I was that night.
It's different for everyone. I can honestly say that if it weren't for that night I might not have gone looking for a place like this. I did do the 30 days AF and am now trying modified drinking. My limit is 1 or 2 glasses of wine and it's mostly in social situations.
Keep posting, I'll be reading...:welcome:

[Pride before Fall]

Can I Tell You About Me?

Thanks, Cher and Bridge. I translate substance-abuse research for distribution to primary-care physicians. (Hi! I?m Pride, the alcoholic alcohol researcher! :egad

Cher, the drink limit is higher in the UK because the definition of ?standard drink? is 8 g alcohol v. 12?14 g in the US.

Regarding the article you found (it got a LOT of air play at the time--who here wouldn?t love the recommendation, ?drink away!?), it was written by Times columnist Andrew Norfolk. Norfolk was a strong opponent of a proposed tax increase on alcohol, which he described as ?an attack on drinkers.? He is quoting former physician Richard Smith, turned journalist at the Guardian, who in turn, is said to be quoting an epidemiologist who isn?t identified.

The day after the article ran, Smith published a retraction saying he?d been misrepresented:

Sensible drinking limits not useless after all

Contrary to being ?plucked out of the air? as Norfolk quotes, safe drinking limits were based on large-cohort epidemiologic studies assessing the levels at which alcohol harms outweigh any CV benefits. They?re still in place because subsequent research, exhaustive amounts of it, supports the findings that went into writing them. In terms of the liver, risk begins when weekly consumption exceeds 30 (UK) units. For other conditions, such as breast cancer, the risk goes up in proportion to the amount of alcohol consumed; there is no established ?safe? limit. That?s why no country recommends teetotalers start drinking lightly for CV protective effects; all-cause mortality goes up regardless.

Speaking of teetotalers (not including former drinkers), they do have a higher CV mortality rate than drinkers. But the evidence is confounded by socioeconomic factors?demographically, nondrinkers tend to be poorer, less educated, to exercise less, and to have a poorer diet, thereby outpacing drinkers in mortality from other causes. (That?s what Norfolk left out of the study he referred to in his article.)

The UK drinking guidelines were reviewed again in 1995. Below is what lead author Michael Marmot, professor of epidemiology and public health at University College, said about the results. I?ve included the references as well if you want to check them out.

[For those of you still awake : I try not to drone on about this stuff, but I don?t want anyone here basing their decision to drink or not on misinformation, particularly from a columnist working for a newspaper that receives revenue from AL advertising.]

xoxox Pride
__________

?We concluded that moderate alcohol consumption was protective from IHD [ischemic heart disease]. We were concerned, however, with the other effects of alcohol. Above 21 units a week for men, and 14 for women, the frequency of psychosocial problems increases with amount drunk. Similarly, mortality rates increase with amount drunk. We reviewed 15 studies on alcohol and all-cause mortality in men, and four in women. The largest of the studies, the American Cancer Society Prospective Study of more than a quarter of a million men showed all-cause mortality to increase steadily from one drink a day.30 We concluded therefore that the advice of a sensible limit of 21 units a week for men and 14 for women should stand. Subsequent to our report, a second American Cancer Society Study of relatively affluent, well-educated volunteers showed a similar pattern of alcohol and all-cause mortality: mortality increased from one drink a day, although non-drinkers who smoked were the highest risk group.31

1. Marmot MG. Alcohol and coronary heart disease. Int J Epidemiol 1984;13:160?67.
2. Wordsworth W. Wordsworth Selected Poetry (ed. Van Doren, M), Modern Library College Editions, New York, Random House, 1950.
3. Lakatos I, Musgrave A. (eds). Criticism and the Growth of Knowledge. Proceedings of the International Colloquium in the Philosophy of Science. London: Cambridge University Press, 1970.
4. Marmot MG, Rose G, Shipley MJ, Thomas BS. Alcohol and mortality: a u-shaped curve. Lancet 1981;i:580?83.
5. Klatsky AL, Friedman GD, Siegelaub AB. Alcohol use, myocardial infarction, sudden cardiac death and hypertension. Alcohol Clin Exp Res 1979;3:33?39.
MedlineWeb of Science
6. Room R, Day N. Alcohol and mortality. In: Alcohol and Health: New Knowledge (second special report to the US Congress). Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 1974, pp.79?92.
7. Pearl R. Alcohol and Longevity. New York: Alfred A Knopf, 1926.
8. Shaper AG, Phillips AN, Pocock SJ, Walker M. Alcohol and ischaemic heart disease in middle aged British men. Br Med J 1987;294:733?1289.
9.Shaper AG. Alcohol and mortality: a review of prospective studies. Br J Addict 1990;85:837?47.
10. Shaper AG. Editorial: alcohol, the heart, and health. Am J Public Health 1993;83:799?801.
11.Wannamethee G, Shaper G. Men who do not drink: a report from the British Regional Heart Study. Int J Epidemiol 1991;17:201?10.
12. Wannamethee SG, Shaper AG. Lifelong teetotallers, ex-drinkers and drinkers: mortality and the incidence of major coronary heart disease events in middle-aged British men. Int J Epidemiol 1997;26:523?31.
13. Marmot MG, Brunner EJ. Alcohol and cardiovascular disease: the status of the U shaped curve. Br Med J 1991;303:565?68.
14. Joint Working Group of Royal College of Physicians, Royal College of Psychiatrists, Royal College of General Practitioners. Alcohol and the Heart in Perspective?Sensible Limits Reaffirmed, 1st edn. London: Royal Colleges, 1995.
15. Marmot M. Alcohol and Cardiovascular Disease, BHF Factfile. London: British Heart Foundation, 1998.
16. Britton A, McKee M, Leon DA. Cardiovascular Disease and Heavy Drinking: A Systematic Review. London: London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. PHP Departmental Publication, 1998.
17. Hart CL, Davey Smith G, Hole DJ, Hawthorne VM. Alcohol consumption and mortality from all causes, coronary heart disease, and stroke: results from a prospective cohort study of Scottish men with 21 years of follow up. Br Med J 1999;318:1725?29.
18. Roberts R, Brunner EJ, Marmot M. Psychological factors in the relationship between alcohol and cardiovascular morbidity. Soc Sci Med 1995;41:1513?16.
19. Keil U, Chambless LE, Doring A, Filipiak B, Stieber J. The relation of alcohol intake to coronary heart disease and all-cause mortality in a beer-drinking population. Epidemiol 1997;8:150?56.
20. Bobak M, Skodova Z, Marmot M. Effect of beer drinking on risk of myocardial infarction: population based case-control study. Br Med J 2000;320:1378?79.
21. Renaud SC, Ruf JC. Effects of alcohol on platelet function. Clin Chim Acta 1996;246:77?89.
22. Leon DA, Chenet L, Shkolnikov V. Huge variation in Russian mortality rates 1984?94: artefact, alcohol, or what? Lancet 1997;350:383?88.
23. Rimm EB, Willett WC, Hu FB et al. Folate and vitamin B6 from diet and supplements in relation to risk of coronary heart disease among women. JAMA 1998;279:359?64.
24. Fillmore KM, Golding JM, Graves KL et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality. 3. Studies of female populations. Addiction 1998;93:219?29.
25.Fillmore KM, Golding JM, Graves KL et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality. 1. Characteristics of drinking groups. Addiction 1998; 93:183?203.
26. Leino E, Romelsjo A, Shoemaker C et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality. 2. Studies of male populations. Addiction 1998;93:205?18.
27. Murray C, Lopez ADE. The Global Burden of Disease. Boston: Harvard University Press, 1996. />28. Shaper AG, Wannamethee G, Walker M. Alcohol and mortality. International Journal of Epidemiology 2001;30:30?42g; explaining the U-shaped curve. Lancet 1988;ii:1268?73.
29. Drever F, Whitehead M. Health Inequalities: Decennial Supplement. Series DS No.15, London: The Stationery Office, Office for National Statistics, 1997.
30. Bofetta P, Garfinkel L. Alcohol; drinking and mortality among men enrolled in the American Cancer Society prospective study. Epidemiol 1990;1:342?48.
31. Thun MJ, Peto R, Lopez AD et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality among middle-aged and elderly US adults. N Engl J Med 1997;337: 1705?14.
32. Griffith Edwards et al. Alcohol Policy and the Public Good, 1st edn. New York: Oxford University Press, 1994.
33. Marmot MG. A not-so-sensible drinks policy. Lancet 1995;346:1643?44.
34. Colhoun H, Ben-Shlomo Y, Dong W, Bost L, Marmot M. Ecological analysis of collectivity of alcohol consumption in England: importance of average drinker. Br Med J 1997;314:1164?68.

[cherrabah]

Can I Tell You About Me?

Ah Pride, now that is JUST what I needed! Thank you so much. All the replies have been most welcome, but you have gently put me right and I appreciate the effort you've made - far more intelligently and much better informed than my sulky ambivalence . Inside myself, I know I'm acting like a spoilt toddler jumping up and down shouting "I want! I want! I want!"

I have put myself on the naughty step while I re-evaluate what I really should do and what kind of support I truly need. It seems I'm asking for permission to carry on drinking and giving you my reasons why I should .... but if that was what I HONESTLY wanted, I wouldn't be here, would I?

It's just that kick-start into a resolved commitment that I could do with ... and Pride, I respect you putting me (and anyone who listened) right. My naughty toddler needs to eat some humble pie and put her sensible hat on.

Thanks everyone. I shall be hanging around here and move onto the general discussion board next.

Love Cher X