Hi there guys! Im forom the UK!
I don?t know where to start. Ive heard and read a little bit about an organisation called SMART recovery and I commend them for what they arer doing in helping people with drink and drug problems. (Does this site have links with the organsitation?)
By reading about SMART, I think in a lot of ways it suits me to join up. By the way, I am in recovery from alcohol/drug addiction. I have been sober for over 8 years and been clean from drugs for 3 ? years. I went to AA and NA to help me (ive been in and out of the fellowship for 15 years). I still go to AA/NA and there are some people there are great. However I have got issues there that bugs me, if im honest ive always had issues that have bugged me with AA/NA and the 12 step program, hence why in writing to this forum!
Don?t get me wrong, AA/NA have at times in the past been great and have helped me immensly to stay clean and sober. There is nothing better being in a room of people that know exactly what you have been through . Ive left meeting feeling much better than wot I was before.(More NA than AA in my expeerience) I am grateful for AA/NA. But the one thing that has bugges me about AA and the 12 Steps and that?s the ?God stuff?. There you are, (ive said it!!!!).
Before I start, im not a raving atheist, or nothing like that.(not that there?s nothing wrong with that at all) If im honest I belief that something is there , and there could well be a ?God?. But im chilled out about it ? I tend to keep my beliefs like that private coz it?s a personal thing. My wife is a Buddhist and I think it?s a lovely spiritual religion (better than Christianity in my opinion , coz its less ?you have sinned? and quite simply much nicer and more chilled).
The 12 step program puts a lot of emphasis(or maybe everything) on God. Which you could say is fine I guess, but wot I don?t like, by reading 12 step books over the years, is that you ?have to belief in God? to lead a good life or you ?will never recover from addiction/alcoholism ?. I don?t take to this at all. And I get resentful about it.
Ive had a lot of good experiences in the fellowship , where basically people have been there helping me by listening to me and empathising with me. But Ive also has some bad experiences . Ill give you a few examples-
? One time a long term memner of AA said I had to give up all my interests , basically everything for the fellowship(thats the term AA people use to describe the organisation), and if I wanted to ?become well?. (At the time, even though id been through a good few years clean and sober, I was going through some problems and suffering from depression. The reason I was told that I was depressed, is that I was not ?applying? the program, and that I was a ?dry drunk?. Bascially, my recovery was worthless. At the time this happened, I could either go 2 ways ? follow wots being said, or leave AA . Subsiquently , the next meeting I went to after this was 5 years. These 5 years were good years ? it was good to get out of the fellowship, I did have a relapse, admittedly, (via drugs, not drink), I stopped and did it ?on my own?. Though I did flirt with NA/AA, I went to 2 meetings , spoke to someone in the fellowship, and then didnt go at all. I was told, again I had to sacrifice everything for my recovery ? even possibly my marriage. When I challenged this, I was told my ?addict? is speaking, my ?illness? is speaking and not me. I was told , that if I wasn?t going to follow this way, I would relapse again and carry on drinking/using. (subsiquently ? the bloke was wrong, to this day ive been clean ever since).
? I was told in the past, I hadn?t grown up yet because I hadn?t done the ?steps? (I was 2 years sober at the time)
? I mentioned earlier about ?my addict ? speaking ie ? when I speak against something or when I state an opinion which is different to the 12 steps, that my ?addict? is speaking. That is something else which has bugged me and which I find dangerous ? this kind of philosophy can seriously mess with somebody?s head ?and ive seen it. This kind of thinking nearly messed me up too, but fortunately ? I saw wot it was for and I don?t bind into this rubbish at all. At the end of the day ? I have my own opinions on life but also I respect others as long as they respect mine. Everyone (addicts, non-addicts wotever) has got their own mind. I have seen people with over 20 years clean time who are 12 step obsessed. They are full of tension, full of quotes from 12 step literature, they do an ?inventory? for every little thing they ?do wrong? daily and pray to ?God? for forgiveness etc. They analyse everything. Now, I don?t know about you, but I don?t want to live my life like that. They are very unhappy, extremely controlling too and they take over the meetings and push their ?thinking? on to others . They think they know about life! They look down at people and patronise , especially newcomers. Its God this ,and God that
? Anti-depressnat/anxiety tablets. I have been on medication for over 10 years. Its because I suffer from this condition and ive been diagnosed. Now I haven?t told a word to anyone in the fellowship. Many, a significant number anyway would consider it ?using?. It could mess my head up if I tell them I take then, with them warning me and it could scare me and lead me to think ? ?they could be right?? , that thought could well be there anyway. I have been on them ,(20ml citalopram) daily and Ive never misused them. They definetley help and I am stable. But I wouldn?t dare tell AA/NA members
? I had a chat once with somebody who I thought was chilled out in the fellowship and wasn?t a really massive fundamentalist hard core. Wot he said was right I think ? which is take the good things you get from the fellowship, and the things you don?t want, you don?t have to listen to and ignore it. I didnt have to take everything in. This works but sometimes when you hear people who think they know everything and its God this and God that its just annoying and I just don?t feel I get helped. All I want from the fellowship is to stay sober and clean one day at a time, and to be talking to people who know wots its about ? the God stuff and the steps aswell, no thanks (Oh ooops can some of you hear my ?addict head? speaking, cos that?s wot the 12 step worshippers would be saying!!!!!!!!!!!). I lve a good life, yes im sensitive, yes I get resentful, yes I do miatakes, yes I do good things aswell ? basically im a just a normal human being ? ( I just don?t drink or take drugs!!!). Why do I have to psychoanalyse myself for every little thing ive done wrong???????? Sorry its just not me!!!!
? There are other things ? having wot they call a ?sponsor? which is somebody who has got a long term of sobriety who helps you ? like a mentor, if you like. When I say that, that in itself is fine and yes perfectly reasonable. It works for a lot of people and that?s great! In my experience, I didn?t have so much success. I had a sponsor, and again it was all about the God stuff, and hardcore 12 step stuff. Maybe I chose the wrong guy! But anyway, it put me off. Now if I got ?problems?or I want a chat with someone, I speak to my friends. Again ? the 12 stepists would be horrified me saying this
? The 12 step book war written in the 20s/30s (well it was a long time) and I find it very very religious and very heavy (do I use th word ?cult like? here???). Its very much old testament and the ?you are not worthy?stuff. Its pretty right wing stuff the way I see it. Good for self esteem???Not at all! It just goes on about how bad we are as people and God is the only one that can save us!!!!!!
? The 12 step book goes on about will-power, that we have none. It depends how you define will-power. But for somehow they deem it as something ?bad?. The way I see it, in the end it?s the person, with his will, and believe and strength (and yes with some help) that succeeds in getting sober.
? Labelling and ?textbooking? is an obsession in AA. '
Im (?name?) and Im an alcoholic.'
Wot about labelling people with good labels too like ?Im also a good person, I do my best, Im trying to be kind etc? instead of negative labelling all the time?
? An illness? It?s a big debate. Personally I think it is a form of illness when you do drink/use but that doesn?t mean that I go on and on about it all the time thinking to myself ?im different from other people? or ?I cant do that, I have a disease? etc etc. Theres far too much emphasis on it. I don?t consider myself at all to be ill or be diseased today. I haven?t had a drug/dring for a long time, and I fell healthy and well. I want to concentrate on the positive side of me ? not the ?illness? side or I will become ill or become a hypochondriac !!!!
Reading this makes it sound that I am being very anti AA. I am just merely pointing out my experiences. AA has helped a lot of people and its saved many many. But it has got it flaws im afraid, big flaws. Ive met many amazing people and good friends in the fellowship like I said earlier, but someow the way I see AA it is controlled by hardcore 12 step fundamentalists.
I said earlier I want to be around people who are in the same boat as me, but I don?t want the God stuff!!! Regarding SMART, It sound great ? its like AA without the God Stuff and the 12 step stuff! Sounds perfect to me!!! Where are the meetings in the UK? Don?t thing theres anywhere round mine??
PS awfully sorry for the long post , ive just put down wot I feel and I guess I feel a lot of things!!!! Thanks for the read??
I don?t know where to start. Ive heard and read a little bit about an organisation called SMART recovery and I commend them for what they arer doing in helping people with drink and drug problems. (Does this site have links with the organsitation?)
By reading about SMART, I think in a lot of ways it suits me to join up. By the way, I am in recovery from alcohol/drug addiction. I have been sober for over 8 years and been clean from drugs for 3 ? years. I went to AA and NA to help me (ive been in and out of the fellowship for 15 years). I still go to AA/NA and there are some people there are great. However I have got issues there that bugs me, if im honest ive always had issues that have bugged me with AA/NA and the 12 step program, hence why in writing to this forum!
Don?t get me wrong, AA/NA have at times in the past been great and have helped me immensly to stay clean and sober. There is nothing better being in a room of people that know exactly what you have been through . Ive left meeting feeling much better than wot I was before.(More NA than AA in my expeerience) I am grateful for AA/NA. But the one thing that has bugges me about AA and the 12 Steps and that?s the ?God stuff?. There you are, (ive said it!!!!).
Before I start, im not a raving atheist, or nothing like that.(not that there?s nothing wrong with that at all) If im honest I belief that something is there , and there could well be a ?God?. But im chilled out about it ? I tend to keep my beliefs like that private coz it?s a personal thing. My wife is a Buddhist and I think it?s a lovely spiritual religion (better than Christianity in my opinion , coz its less ?you have sinned? and quite simply much nicer and more chilled).
The 12 step program puts a lot of emphasis(or maybe everything) on God. Which you could say is fine I guess, but wot I don?t like, by reading 12 step books over the years, is that you ?have to belief in God? to lead a good life or you ?will never recover from addiction/alcoholism ?. I don?t take to this at all. And I get resentful about it.
Ive had a lot of good experiences in the fellowship , where basically people have been there helping me by listening to me and empathising with me. But Ive also has some bad experiences . Ill give you a few examples-
? One time a long term memner of AA said I had to give up all my interests , basically everything for the fellowship(thats the term AA people use to describe the organisation), and if I wanted to ?become well?. (At the time, even though id been through a good few years clean and sober, I was going through some problems and suffering from depression. The reason I was told that I was depressed, is that I was not ?applying? the program, and that I was a ?dry drunk?. Bascially, my recovery was worthless. At the time this happened, I could either go 2 ways ? follow wots being said, or leave AA . Subsiquently , the next meeting I went to after this was 5 years. These 5 years were good years ? it was good to get out of the fellowship, I did have a relapse, admittedly, (via drugs, not drink), I stopped and did it ?on my own?. Though I did flirt with NA/AA, I went to 2 meetings , spoke to someone in the fellowship, and then didnt go at all. I was told, again I had to sacrifice everything for my recovery ? even possibly my marriage. When I challenged this, I was told my ?addict? is speaking, my ?illness? is speaking and not me. I was told , that if I wasn?t going to follow this way, I would relapse again and carry on drinking/using. (subsiquently ? the bloke was wrong, to this day ive been clean ever since).
? I was told in the past, I hadn?t grown up yet because I hadn?t done the ?steps? (I was 2 years sober at the time)
? I mentioned earlier about ?my addict ? speaking ie ? when I speak against something or when I state an opinion which is different to the 12 steps, that my ?addict? is speaking. That is something else which has bugged me and which I find dangerous ? this kind of philosophy can seriously mess with somebody?s head ?and ive seen it. This kind of thinking nearly messed me up too, but fortunately ? I saw wot it was for and I don?t bind into this rubbish at all. At the end of the day ? I have my own opinions on life but also I respect others as long as they respect mine. Everyone (addicts, non-addicts wotever) has got their own mind. I have seen people with over 20 years clean time who are 12 step obsessed. They are full of tension, full of quotes from 12 step literature, they do an ?inventory? for every little thing they ?do wrong? daily and pray to ?God? for forgiveness etc. They analyse everything. Now, I don?t know about you, but I don?t want to live my life like that. They are very unhappy, extremely controlling too and they take over the meetings and push their ?thinking? on to others . They think they know about life! They look down at people and patronise , especially newcomers. Its God this ,and God that
? Anti-depressnat/anxiety tablets. I have been on medication for over 10 years. Its because I suffer from this condition and ive been diagnosed. Now I haven?t told a word to anyone in the fellowship. Many, a significant number anyway would consider it ?using?. It could mess my head up if I tell them I take then, with them warning me and it could scare me and lead me to think ? ?they could be right?? , that thought could well be there anyway. I have been on them ,(20ml citalopram) daily and Ive never misused them. They definetley help and I am stable. But I wouldn?t dare tell AA/NA members
? I had a chat once with somebody who I thought was chilled out in the fellowship and wasn?t a really massive fundamentalist hard core. Wot he said was right I think ? which is take the good things you get from the fellowship, and the things you don?t want, you don?t have to listen to and ignore it. I didnt have to take everything in. This works but sometimes when you hear people who think they know everything and its God this and God that its just annoying and I just don?t feel I get helped. All I want from the fellowship is to stay sober and clean one day at a time, and to be talking to people who know wots its about ? the God stuff and the steps aswell, no thanks (Oh ooops can some of you hear my ?addict head? speaking, cos that?s wot the 12 step worshippers would be saying!!!!!!!!!!!). I lve a good life, yes im sensitive, yes I get resentful, yes I do miatakes, yes I do good things aswell ? basically im a just a normal human being ? ( I just don?t drink or take drugs!!!). Why do I have to psychoanalyse myself for every little thing ive done wrong???????? Sorry its just not me!!!!
? There are other things ? having wot they call a ?sponsor? which is somebody who has got a long term of sobriety who helps you ? like a mentor, if you like. When I say that, that in itself is fine and yes perfectly reasonable. It works for a lot of people and that?s great! In my experience, I didn?t have so much success. I had a sponsor, and again it was all about the God stuff, and hardcore 12 step stuff. Maybe I chose the wrong guy! But anyway, it put me off. Now if I got ?problems?or I want a chat with someone, I speak to my friends. Again ? the 12 stepists would be horrified me saying this
? The 12 step book war written in the 20s/30s (well it was a long time) and I find it very very religious and very heavy (do I use th word ?cult like? here???). Its very much old testament and the ?you are not worthy?stuff. Its pretty right wing stuff the way I see it. Good for self esteem???Not at all! It just goes on about how bad we are as people and God is the only one that can save us!!!!!!
? The 12 step book goes on about will-power, that we have none. It depends how you define will-power. But for somehow they deem it as something ?bad?. The way I see it, in the end it?s the person, with his will, and believe and strength (and yes with some help) that succeeds in getting sober.
? Labelling and ?textbooking? is an obsession in AA. '
Im (?name?) and Im an alcoholic.'
Wot about labelling people with good labels too like ?Im also a good person, I do my best, Im trying to be kind etc? instead of negative labelling all the time?
? An illness? It?s a big debate. Personally I think it is a form of illness when you do drink/use but that doesn?t mean that I go on and on about it all the time thinking to myself ?im different from other people? or ?I cant do that, I have a disease? etc etc. Theres far too much emphasis on it. I don?t consider myself at all to be ill or be diseased today. I haven?t had a drug/dring for a long time, and I fell healthy and well. I want to concentrate on the positive side of me ? not the ?illness? side or I will become ill or become a hypochondriac !!!!
Reading this makes it sound that I am being very anti AA. I am just merely pointing out my experiences. AA has helped a lot of people and its saved many many. But it has got it flaws im afraid, big flaws. Ive met many amazing people and good friends in the fellowship like I said earlier, but someow the way I see AA it is controlled by hardcore 12 step fundamentalists.
I said earlier I want to be around people who are in the same boat as me, but I don?t want the God stuff!!! Regarding SMART, It sound great ? its like AA without the God Stuff and the 12 step stuff! Sounds perfect to me!!! Where are the meetings in the UK? Don?t thing theres anywhere round mine??
PS awfully sorry for the long post , ive just put down wot I feel and I guess I feel a lot of things!!!! Thanks for the read??
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