Moderation movement...

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

MossRose;1614103 wrote:
TG - glad to see you active on the boards. Best chance at success, no matter which path you choose. btw...are you done with this winter, yet? I am!!

Being active here and reading others posts and stories have really given me some perspective and knowing there is a community full of people such as myself to vent with makes it so much easier for sure.

I am a bit odd when it comes to the weather compared to most that I meet. Everyone seems to love sunny and warm days when I actually prefer overcast, rainy/snowy and cold days. I have no idea when in the hell that became my preference lol.

[Byrdlady]

Moderation movement...

True, by the time a person gets to the point of seeking out an online forum for AL abuse, or problem drinking, the Jeannie is out of the bottle. When I first came here, I was ready to quit, but then I found the mods boards and it doesn't take much convincing for an addict to come up with a plan to keep from quitting. I tried moderating for a year. I never drank harder. After all, we have tried to moderate before we got here, right? We tried not to drink too much or to just drink on certain occasions. It didn't work then and it wont work now. Our brains' receptors are wired to fire when we get our fix...and no amount of willpower can change that. No amount of time can either. Its a lifelong party and we got an invitation. I went back and found your first post. You wrote:

Regards,

I am new here but definitely not new to the alcohol game. Instead of being my usual stubborn self I decided that I need support and that is why I am here. AA was not an option as several friends tried that a failed miserably. Today is the start of me never touching that garbage again.

I have never told myself that I would never drink again but instead insisted that I would be able to drink like a normal person. I would be able to just drink on the weekends and that would last for a month tops before I went back to drinking every night and have been doing so, albeit the infrequent detours, for thirteen years now.

The longest that I have lasted in those thirteen years without booze was eleven days and I felt fricking fantastic but the addiction is a living, breathing entity that talks to you and tries to coerce you at every turn and soon I was right back to my old ways. I hate it, I hate it with an absolute passion and it is time to stop. I am tired of the hangovers, the shakes that make me feel uncomfortable in social situations, the fights, the looks from my wife, the "props" that my friends give me when I can drink them under the table and still be up drinking well after their bodies told them they have had too much, being too tired to do things with my wonderful children.

I cant believe the person that I have turned into and given my history with booze I am surprised I ever touched it in the first place. My step father was a total alcoholic that used to beat the hell out of my mother, my grandfather was an alcoholic piece of shit, my aunt and uncle are alcoholics, my father in law drank himself to death just two years ago and my mother drank herself to death in 2005. How the hell did I become like that after everything? Well, its time. I will never touch it again, Im done and I'm going to silence that addiction entity that I spoke of.

I hope that I can come here when those urges come about or just to vent as I go through this process. Thank any of you that took the time to read this, I could have written an entire novel on what I have been through.
End Quote.

If you REALLY do your homework, you will see that virtually NO ONE can moderate successfully. If you really follow their stories, none of them are doing it. Go back and look at their history. Chasing this fantasy will only cost you precious time. I wish I had just quit and not nearly killed myself chasing something that isnt possible. Remember, on this site, moderation is only recommended using those high powered drugs. Will power alone cannot overcome addiction.
This is not just my opinion, I 've been on this site for 4 years and I have followed the posts. If 99 people walk off a cliff and die, do you want to be #100?
I think there are 2 sure signs you are an alkie, one is when you try to do the 30 days AF and cant, the other is when you decide to moderate.
All the best, Byrdie

[Myluck]

Moderation movement...

Byrdie, very well said as you always do, so powerful so logical and so true. My favorite is - "it dosn't take much convincing for an addict to come up with the plan to keep from quitting". My brain even saying to me that trying moderating will save my 20 year marriage - my hubby will be very happy and we will live happily ever after. Untill it gets out if hand again....right! This is AL talking so I know to dismiss this wonderful idea.
Why, why, why people find it nessesary to drink?

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

Byrdlady;1614146 wrote:
If you REALLY do your homework, you will see that virtually NO ONE can moderate successfully. If you really follow their stories, none of them are doing it. Go back and look at their history. Chasing this fantasy will only cost you precious time. I wish I had just quit and not nearly killed myself chasing something that isnt possible. Remember, on this site, moderation is only recommended using those high powered drugs. Will power alone cannot overcome addiction.
This is not just my opinion, I 've been on this site for 4 years and I have followed the posts. If 99 people walk off a cliff and die, do you want to be #100?
I think there are 2 sure signs you are an alkie, one is when you try to do the 30 days AF and cant, the other is when you decide to moderate.
All the best, Byrdie

Byrdlady, I really appreciate your opinion and experience.

I know two different people who are very close that have very successfully moderated their booze from being called hopeless alcoholics.

Willpower alone can do it. A couple of years ago I did the weekend drinking only thing for two months with no issue because my workload was insane...moderating was not something that I wanted as a lifestyle at the time and knew that I would come back drinking like my normal self.

This time there was something that snapped and when I wrote that post I was pissed, I was angry with myself and still am however I was able to sit in a quiet room and rationalize what needed to be done. 1, I realized that complete abstinence is not possible per my social obligations and triggers. 2, I realized that I do enjoy booze and the activities that come with it but I NEED to regulate it, control and subdue it to my will.

My Grandmother told me about when she quit smoking 30 years ago, this is seared in my brain and is verbatim..."When I quit smoking it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life, we didnt have patches and gum and other aids to help...we just had to do it. There were times where it was so bad that I would go to the bathroom and cry to myself in the mirror because I wanted a smoke so bad but I told myself...you did this to yourself stupid now it is time to end it by yourself". She is almost 80 years old and part of the last greatest generation.

I feel that we have been bombarded by the pharmaceutical, psychiatric and other industries that we cannot do it alone, that we need their fucking help to accomplish anything and that our willpower means nothing. Think about all the damn ads and papers published that take away the person to control themselves but go ahead and take one of our pills. They have created customers out of us while destroying our willpower.

Well I will not stand for it, I will conquer this and use it at will and enjoy it on MY OWN schedule. No pills, no nothing except for ranting here once in awhile.

[red67]

Moderation movement...

All of us alcoholics have said the same thing to ourselves, that we can moderate, can drink when we want to. We just have to figure out "the plan". Honestly, there are no social events that require you to drink. I work in construction and everyone and I mean everyone drinks, and ALOT. Before I quit I kept thinking I could never do it because I would never fit in with these people, I would be an outsider. I learned the only person I had to worry about was me. Who cares what others think about me not drinking? I still am close with all of them, some of them don't understand why I don't drink but I don't care.

If by some miracle you are able to moderate that will be great for you. I can tell you that's not how it works once you cross the line. It's your life though and if alcohol is that important to you (even though you detailed what it did to your family) good luck.

[Alky]

Moderation movement...

Sorry if this comes off as hard-nosed, but my formerly alcoholic, teetotaling father married into a hard-drinking Japanese family and they completely respected his abstinence. Sounds like you're looking for an excuse to drink to me.

[bettygirl]

Moderation movement...

"I feel that we have been bombarded by the pharmaceutical, psychiatric and other industries that we cannot do it alone, that we need their fucking help to accomplish anything and that our willpower means nothing. Think about all the damn ads and papers published that take away the person to control themselves but go ahead and take one of our pills. They have created customers out of us while destroying our willpower" -true grit

I feel the same way about alcohol...I have been exactly where you are many times. I never did it on my own despite major willpower and self confidence. I can do anything I put my mind to, except quitting drinking on my own. I hope you are able to get to a place where you can successfully moderate, you will be one of the few!

ps, if you told your family that your doctor said you should limit or cut out your drinking, im sure they would understand. if you are the patriarch, maybe you could show them by example how to be one.

peace!

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

Alky wrote: Sorry if this comes off as hard-nosed, but my formerly alcoholic, teetotaling father married into a hard-drinking Japanese family and they completely respected his abstinence. Sounds like you're looking for an excuse to drink to me.
Not at all. I will get down to even more specifics regarding the country since not all Asians are created equal. My wife is from Cambodia and as I stated before, drinking is hardcore intertwined with their social customs and refusing a drink is a form of major disrespect. I am partially looking for an excuse to drink but that is not one of them, I enjoy it and if I can moderate it and still enjoy it than there is no harm.

bettygirl wrote: I feel the same way about alcohol...I have been exactly where you are many times. I never did it on my own despite major willpower and self confidence.

Just because you did not do it on your own does not mean that your willpower faltered. Your willpower just needed the strength of some others to hold it up. We are a social species, we are not an island.

[Alky]

Moderation movement...

TrueGrit;1614284 wrote: Not at all. I will get down to even more specifics regarding the country since not all Asians are created equal. My wife is from Cambodia and as I stated before, drinking is hardcore intertwined with their social customs and refusing a drink is a form of major disrespect. I am partially looking for an excuse to drink but that is not one of them, I enjoy it and if I can moderate it and still enjoy it than there is no harm.

Still not buying the culture argument. In Japan, it's rude not to consume anything that is offered you. But my dad held his ground and explained that his alcoholic father (my grandfather) sent his family into financial ruin at the height of The Great Depression and explained that as a Navy Seaman, after waking in jail multiple times with no recollection how he got there, he simply was not going to take a drink, no matter what. And they grudgingly respected that.

As for the moderation, just be honest with yourself. Which do you like more - the drink or the buzz? If you can honestly say you like the drink itself more than the buzz, you have a chance at moderation. Me personally, I never really cared if I was drinking $4/pint Skol vodka or a $150 bottle of Regusci cabernet from Napa. So it's obvious which way I had to go.

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

Alky;1614462 wrote: Still not buying the culture argument. In Japan, it's rude not to consume anything that is offered you.
You can choose not to buy the culture argument if you so choose based on your experience with your father. You are able to understand his story because you know about all of the details intimately and he is your father...I am just some guy on the internet. If you would like I could entertain you with a detailed writing of my circumstances however be warned you should be prepared to read half of a novel.

Alky;1614462 wrote: As for the moderation, just be honest with yourself. Which do you like more - the drink or the buzz? If you can honestly say you like the drink itself more than the buzz, you have a chance at moderation. Me personally, I never really cared if I was drinking $4/pint Skol vodka or a $150 bottle of Regusci cabernet from Napa. So it's obvious which way I had to go.

I like them both, there have been many nights where I have enjoyably sipped on a $200 bottle of Johnny Walker Blue label just to enjoy the drink itself and there are times where I would smash half a bottle of vodka to enjoy the buzz. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the buzz either as long as it is controlled and moderated. I guess it matters not what I write because what I say will go against your beliefs and what you are trying to do with your life. I did create a thread in the General Discussion area https://www.mywayout.org/community/f9...ead-89330.html that will show my journey on this path to moderation. Please take a look and follow along if you wish.

[Jazi's Mum]

Moderation movement...

Will power has nothing to do with it. How much will power does it take to down a bottle of vodka when you know you will just about die the next day with a hangover - or lose your wife, or your children, or your career - PLENTY OF WILL POWER!!!! All actions are actions of the WILL.

If will power were the only way to go we'd all be there. This is my humble opinion, and inthe opinion of researchers who know what's what about addictions. Google Lance Dodes.
JMum

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

Jazi's Mum;1614474 wrote: Will power has nothing to do with it. How much will power does it take to down a bottle of vodka when you know you will just about die the next day with a hangover - or lose your wife, or your children, or your career - PLENTY OF WILL POWER!!!! All actions are actions of the WILL.

If will power were the only way to go we'd all be there. This is my humble opinion, and inthe opinion of researchers who know what's what about addictions. Google Lance Dodes.
JMum

Well, we are going to find out. If you would like please follow my thread https://www.mywayout.org/community/f9...ead-89330.html in the General Discussion section. I will be brutally honest about every aspect of this journey.

[Alky]

Moderation movement...

Jmum, Byrdie, Red et. al., our friend TG here is confusing the concept of moderating with the concept of being a functional drunk. A few sober days between binges is not true moderation. The big red flag is his unwillingness to do the 30 days to unwire the alcoholic brain. Because that unwiring is what differentiates true moderation from just binge drinking.

If being a functional drunk works for him, more power to him. I know plenty of functional drunks in high-power professions. One thing I'd like to point out, though, is the functional drunks I know never crossed the line into full-blown alcoholism like I did. Once you cross that point of no return, I don't think there's any going back. But hey, as TG likes to point out, we don't know him and maybe he is different. If I were a betting man, I wouldn't put any money on his success, but that is neither here nor there. And that is all I'm going to say.

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

Alky;1614534 wrote: here is confusing the concept of moderating with the concept of being a functional drunkA functional drunk? Drinking 7-8 days out of a month is a functional drunk? I think you are confused...my old boss was a functional drunk as he would drink 4-5 times a week.

Alky;1614534 wrote: A few sober days between binges is not true moderation. The big red flag is his unwillingness to do the 30 days to unwire the alcoholic brain. Because that unwiring is what differentiates true moderation from just binge drinking.
Obviously you have not been paying attention to the entire thread. There is evidence to the contrary about waiting 30 days to start moderation. Of course with your tone you will not accept that as you are hell bent on thinking I am going to fail and I am trying to be a functional drunk.

Alky;1614534 wrote: If being a functional drunk works for him, more power to him. I know plenty of functional drunks in high-power professions. One thing I'd like to point out, though, is the functional drunks I know never crossed the line into full-blown alcoholism like I did. Once you cross that point of no return, I don't think there's any going back.

Full blown alcoholism? Been there for the better part of thirteen years drinking every night.

Alky;1614534 wrote: I wouldn't put any money on his success, but that is neither here nor there. And that is all I'm going to say.

Thanks for your vote of confidence. It is people like you that have made certain parts of my life successful because they didn't believe in me. Keep paying attention to my other thread that I linked earlier. If for some reason I fail than I will come back and admit it but I do not foresee that happening.

[paulywogg]

Moderation movement...

I wish it were possible for me to get drunk once a week,but i have a hell of a time picking up the pieces,but thats just me