Moderation movement...

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

paulywogg;1614572 wrote: I wish it were possible for me to get drunk once a week,but i have a hell of a time picking up the pieces,but thats just me

Everyone is different. I am very confident that I can do this but if I do fall back to my old ways that I will be done with it for good. There is no going back to my old days, I cannot allow that to happen and I wont.

[Byrdlady]

Moderation movement...

TrueG, you are speaking to a bunch of road-weary folks. One of the many things I have learned on this long journey is I don't have to learn everything the hard way anymore. Yours is a scene that has played out 1000 times on this site ( as well as by me) so I know it pretty well. We get just short of 3000 visitors A DAY here, we have read the stories and lived the despair. We MAY all be different, but one thing is THE SAME: Addiction. There are tons of approaches, but in the end the result is the same....we must stop ingesting AL
Another thing I learned here was to check my ego at the door, there really ARE others here that know more about this than I did/do. I finally started listening to them and life was easier! They tried to tell me, but I was too busy telling them how wrong they were.
Finally, as you know, on the internet you can find support for any argument. I will tell you that I could have saved myself a year of sheer hell if I had listened to the folks here. But my motto was "I will moderate or die trying!" It nearly worked too, I almost died.
Dont knock being sober 30 days until you have tried it.
Like Alky, THAT'S all I am going to say, I will watch your crusade with great interest. Good luck. Byrdie

[kuya]

Moderation movement...

I have a simple question, and I have read the reasons why you wish to moderate, however are they justifications to continue drinking alcohol?

The first time we drank alcohol ( or smoked) our bodies gave us a GENUINE opinion......it said ' this is poison' and the first hangover was a plea from your body to avoid this substance.

WHY do you want to moderate a poison? Fifty years ago smoking was fashionable, acceptable and therefore so very hard to quit. Those who did usually had medical or financial reasons to do so. Alcohol is still ' fashionable' ....... But it is still an addictive poison of absolutely NO value to the body.

Now I have quit for some time I see moderation as the equivalent of smoking a few cigarettes a week......why bother, when it makes you spend the rest of the week withdrawing from nicotine?

If you have joined MWO the probability is you are an alcoholic......the cure for which is to not ingest this poison anymore.

Work hard to learn to drink small amounts of poison to 'fit in'? .............no thank you!

[Alky]

Moderation movement...

Hi Kuya, I know we've had our differences, but it's nice to see you back.

[MossRose]

Moderation movement...

I have just had the first opportunity to catch up on this thread. Wow, TG - what happened? Things have gotten downright contentious here. I completely supported your decision to moderate. I didn't agree, but I felt it was your choice. Truthfully, I figured you would do what we all have done - try to moderate and fail. I just wanted to leave the door open so you would always feel welcome to come back. I was very worried when you said you weren't going to do the 30 days AF first. But again, your decision - and it was backed up by another member. Who am I to argue? I'm hardly an expert on moderating.

But I was disturbed to read this:

TrueGrit;1614469 wrote: There is nothing wrong with enjoying the buzz either as long as it is controlled and moderated.

TG - that's the whole point. We can't "enjoy the buzz" in a controlled manner, so arguing this viewpoint is moot. That's why we are all here. Because for most of us, drinking is not an option - ever - in any way, shape or form.

I could try to sugar coat this, but I’m not going to. Your response to Byrdie upset me. She is revered on this board for a very good reason. Many of us are alive today because of her generous support and love. I was shocked that your reply to her included, “I will conquer this and use it at will and enjoy it on MY OWN schedule.” Bydie has said that she almost died trying to moderate. Your response was inconsiderate.

TG – why are you fighting against the very people who would support you to the end? I have never met such a great group of people - fiercely loyal and supportive. We can be that for you too – but it has to be reciprocal.

This is sent in the spirit of love and peace. I hope you find both on your journey.

[TrueGrit]

Moderation movement...

MossRose;1614651 wrote:

But I was disturbed to read this:


I could try to sugar coat this, but I’m not going to. Your response to Byrdie upset me. She is revered on this board for a very good reason. Many of us are alive today because of her generous support and love. I was shocked that your reply to her included, “I will conquer this and use it at will and enjoy it on MY OWN schedule.” Bydie had just told you that she almost died trying to moderate. Your response was inconsiderate.

I swear I never meant to come off in that way at all! I have a very strong personality and I when I was typing that I was saying that to myself, telling myself that I will conquer this and use it as at MY own will and enjoy it on MY OWN schedule. I NEVER meant to offend at all...that was a way of showing how dedicated I was. I am very sorry if that came across as crass and inconsiderate.

I respect everyone on this forum for what they have gone through and I would never come to such an awesome place full of people that have gone through hell to act like an ass. Maybe I am new to posting in an online forum.

I feel awful but I swear I never meant that in the way you thought at all.

[red67]

Moderation movement...

TrueGrit;1614657 wrote: I swear I never meant to come off in that way at all! I have a very strong personality and I when I was typing that I was saying that to myself, telling myself that I will conquer this and use it as at MY own will and enjoy it on MY OWN schedule. I NEVER meant to offend at all...that was a way of showing how dedicated I was. I am very sorry if that came across as crass and inconsiderate.

I respect everyone on this forum for what they have gone through and I would never come to such an awesome place full of people that have gone through hell to act like an ass. Maybe I am new to posting in an online forum.

I feel awful but I swear I never meant that in the way you thought at all.

I believe you genuinely mean this and that you truly think you can do this. This community will support you and you will meet truly wonderful people here who really care. We just know how moderating turns out for 99.9%. Its hard to watch a fellow alcoholic (if you are one), go down the path that we have all tried and failed at. We all thought we could moderate, made all different kinds of plans and some may have "succeeded" for a couple of days, weeks or months but it always came back to full blown miserable drunkedness. It's just so hard to see it happen over and over again. We know the pain and misery and none of want to see anyone else go thru it.

I am a fellow wisconsin resident (milwaukee) and I know the drinking culture here, it's what we do. But trust me, it is so much better without the drinking. I will follow your posts but I hope you will be brutally honest about what you encounter. It took me 4 years of trying to finally quit so I know it's a journey.

[caysea]

Moderation movement...

Hi All
The age old battle that will go on for ever here. Mod Vs Af. Those of us that are sober trying so save others from the mistakes we made. We can't,each person has to come to terms with there relationship with al.
As a support group though we can try to help you be honest.
So I will ask you about a couple of things you have written in your posts.
You said you lost a job because of your drinking (supervisor)
You have had 2 DUI
Your wife isn't happy with your drinking
You have had to tell your children you have a problem but are working on it.
Soooo are you being honest with how you are dealing with this problem?
Just as any support group we have had our share of people that didn't make it.
Reading your posts I know you have to do it your way. Time will tell how it is going and the honesty you say you have will be the key.
It really doesn't matter to me if you are AF or Mod just that you are successful in regards to the biggest problem in your life. alcohol


Stay Healthy and Keep Fighting
AF. 5-16-08

[kuya]

Moderation movement...

Alky;1614625 wrote: Hi Kuya, I know we've had our differences, but it's nice to see you back.

How nice of you to take the trouble to say so

Thank you

[available]

Moderation movement...

Wow i dont read mod threads as like Byrd said i got it into my head that i could moderate and went from alcoholic to sober for 30+ days to moderating for oh a week to drinking more than i was and now af. Plain and simple I am a functioning alcoholic, i cannot moderate although i was confident i could, i cannot battle with myself with alcohol constantly and that is what it purely is a battle. All the arguments in the world about moderating would never entice me again to drink.

I gave up without medication but if i needed it i would of. We are self medicating by drinking, the only thing is we dont need to go to a gp to get a script.

I wish everyone who wants to moderate good luck but me personally i cant do it. I am an alcoholic plain and simple and I always will be. If i could control my drinking I would not be on this site but alas i cannot.

Great points Cay, I can totally say i was never honest about my drinking.

[Jazi's Mum]

Moderation movement...

Now wait just a minute here. I thought we all were able to start threads, and post on them, and develop our own plan?

How does anyone post on a thread started by someone who wants to moderate and say "well, you're going to fail, so you might as well admit it right now." Unmitigated gall, in my opinion.

I say this not to be nasty. Of course there will be many here who will go ballistic over what I've said. Well, get a life people! The AA model - or white-knuckling as I now call it - simply has NOT proved to be effective. How many 'relapses' are we going to read about here? How many 'slips?'

I think I may just stop posting here in future because no matter how many times a different approach is discussed there will always be the AA folks to tell us we cannot succeed.

I've been sober for years using the AA model. Total failure. Why? Because addictions have nothing to do with the 'action' performed. It has everything to do with the displacement of what's truly going on with 'drinking for control of the uncontrollable'.

Simply white knuckling and telling yourself that if you use enough will power for long enough you have conquered this 'disease is not effective. If it were effective there would not be the dozens of posts here daily with 'failure/Day One again' as the motif.

So now everyone is furious with me, I suppose and I'll be accused of blaming the victim. So be it. Just please people try to think this through. There is a reason you and I reach out for a tool to solve our problems. Once that is identified and embraced, and worked on, the addictive behaviour stops.

Simply quitting should work if the AA model was effective. Ask yourself why it doesn't work.
JMum

[DipGal]

Moderation movement...

I'll chime in here for a minute as someone who is trying to do what TG is doing. This is obviously a heated topic because of all the strong emotions surrounding it. Those who have found that abstaining is the only option that works for them are passionate about saving newbies the grief they went through. We thank you for that! But, we really need to learn on our own because it needs to be part of our process and our journey.

Is TG making excuses and maybe kidding himself? Based on some of the facts, maybe or probably. But, he still must make it his own journey or it'll never stick.

I see a lot of myself in TG's words and what he describes. Different story, but the concept of what I currently "believe" I can do is the same. My excuses are different, but as important to me as his are to him. Our brains can rationalize just about anything unless we learn to catch ourselves.

TG, I am continuing to follow your journey and wish you the best. I love your honesty and I think in general you have your head on straight. If nothing else, I think this thread will help you look *within* as you go along your journey. It's hard for us to kid ourselves when BAM someone says something that hits us at our very core.

[bettygirl]

Moderation movement...

do whatever you want in life. all I know is what I know, and that is that it is easier for me to just not drink than to try to control my (alcoholic) drinking. after getting past the first few moths, there is a freedom I didn't think I would ever have, and I am not willing to try to get sober again. frankly, its too hard and withdrawals SUCK!

[spuddleduck]

Moderation movement...

hmm.. I don't really like to join in controversial stuff but I feel I need to say one little thing (with no disrespect to anyone).
I notice that regarding the 'can we (the collective we) moderate' issue, most people are very passionate about it as they have tried it and gone through a lot of misery to realise that it didn't work for them. People say they wish they had listened to the people who came before and offered advice. The point being that they too didn't listen to the advice, and I kinda think that is something that binds us all to an extent, we have to find out by our own mistakes. Im dreadful for this in all things in life. I really do have to find out/work it out for myself, whether it is finding the best cake recipe and eventually going for the one that I was told was the best or choosing an outfit after being told I would never wear it.
Please understand I don't mean to be flippant by comparing such trivial things to our huge problems but I think it is the nature of the beast that we have to learn / work things out by ourselves. taking in all the information given of course but still finding our own way.
I personally am in the early stages of nal/tsm and don't have a strong opinion either way (mod or af) at the moment. I strongly suspect that for me I will eventually have to be abstinent but I'm still working through things.
Again im posting this with respect to everyone and their views

[Darkest Diamond]

Moderation movement...

I find it interesting to read about the approaches of others but on a personal level I know I can not drink, I respect that others can. I also know we all have different approaches, one of my AA friends referred to one of my neighbours and said "She'll never stay sober without AA" well she has (about eight years now) and the original AA friend has been sober for about 15 years . Both of them have done so well . I can not touch the stuff as if I do a switch goes off in my brain and I want to drink and drink and drink and never stop!