Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

[allankay]

Hello all,

I was reading a lot of posts on Newbies Nest and on General discussion forum and see a lot of people mentioning "testing one self". I.e. going out early in the AF to test the waters and see If you will give into the temptation. Testing your self after 30 days or even a year to see if you can moderate. And not just trying to moderate but testing yourself by going to parties that you know will have enablers, or concerts, clubs... environments that deep down you know you are not ready to handle.

I think it is dangerous strategy and I would encourage everyone to stay away from this way of thinking. I think when it comes to alcohol testing=tempting. Early on it is dangerous because you don't have enough experience to handle aggressive comments or even your own temptation. Later on the in the quit your confidence or forgetfulness can let you down.

I have talked about this topic a lot with some regulars on MWO and a common trend seems to appear. The ones that succeed usually treat AL as a mortal enemy, a vicious predator... and always show him respect by admitting defeat and retreating rather than having a stand off. You wouldn't test your strength against a Lion? Would you? Why are so many tempted to do it with an equally dangerous animal (alcohol).

Speaking from personal experience I treat AL with a healthy amount of fear. As long as it stays that way I believe I can keep my quit for good.

I really want to hear your thoughts.

Best,

Allan

[Samstone]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Hey Allan
interesting post. I agree with you. There are times when I have had to be in alcoholic situations, weddings come to mind. Fortunately having a wife that maybe has a glass of wine once a month helps. She won't drink either at these functions. AL is a dangerous beast, there is no doubt and has an alluring voice when a person can be at his weakest. I think a phrase I see sometimes and I've used it many times is "going on the wagon". Looking back, for me, that phrase has the underlying "temporary" feeling of I'll stop for awhile, subtle but an effective way for the beast to creep back in.

Sam

[Byrdlady]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

AllanKay,
Your post could not be more timely...
I JUST had something written in the nest and deleted it. As you know, I get blasted quite a bit for my 'radical' thinking....but I have something most do not...LONG TERM SOBRIETY. I HATE AL for what it has done to me and my friends here. I HATE the destruction it causes, the denial it creates in people....AL shows no mercy, it plays for ALL the cards. It is not happy until it has consumed us. What I was writing about in the nest was the term 'Moderation'. As we know, by the book that means 14 units per week for a man and 7 for a woman. There is debate about what 'LONG TERM' means, but I think it means more than a few weeks....more than a few months....actually, to me, if you are really considering it, it means for the rest of your life. So the way I see it played out here (by personal experience AND documented here) is that the 2 situations never play out together. There may be some moderating by THE PERSON'S standards, but cutting down to 7 drinks per day from 14 isn't really moderating....it's killing yourself less slowly. I have never seen anyone practice SUCCESSFUL LONG TERM MODERATION. You may get away with it for a short time, but that feeling of always being deprived is going to get the better of our ALKIE minds. Remember moderation on this site says it's only possible with those heavy duty drugs (along with ALL of their side effects). Having been on both sides of this debate, I wish I could show folks in a crystal ball how much better things are WITHOUT AL at all. I do not ever LONG for the ability to drink. I don't MISS it. I hit the SWITCH for indifference to AL because I do not consume it. I do NOT want it back. I wish there were a way to show people 'the other side' getting out from under AL's grip altogether. Going thru all these awful gyrations just so we can drink is pointless. It's going to turn out the same way. My money is on AL every time. The only way WE can win against AL is NOT to consume it. Unfortunately, we all have to find out for ourselves and usually the hard way. We are too impatient to prove we can do it...that we are the exception. If we really did our homework, we could save ourselves A LOT of despair, time, energy, guilt, shame, remorse and money. I applaud people who get it right the first time...because I sure didn't.

It breaks my heart to see folks struggle along to get 30 days....3 months, a YEAR! and then blow it thinking they will be the exception. AL wins every time. If I had seen it work a few times, I might think differently. I have NEVER seen it work out. NEVER...not once. So I am in 100% agreement with you.....get quit and STAY quit. Protect your quit as if your life depended on it. It does.

Well done to you, Allan, you are coming up on 2 years! I'm so proud of you!!! Byrdie

[Alky]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Taking a little bit of a different twist, I no longer post in the meds forum because so many people there are under the assumption that baclofen is some kind of magic pill that will turn an alcoholic into a moderate drinker. Granted, there are a few for whom it seems to have worked. VERY FEW. "Indifference" means a very different thing than what most people over there believe it to mean. It means you can look at an alcoholic drink and not be overcome with craving. You can still drink very easily on baclofen, and when you get drunk on it, all bets are off. There are people there, myself included, that have reached indifference, then continued to drink and lost that indifference. I'm in the process now of working with a psychiatrist to adjust the dosage so that I can reach indifference once again. The difference between me those that still pursue the mirage of baclofen allowing for moderate drinking is that I have finally come to terms with my powerlessness over alcohol. The chorus of harpies over there will drown out any voice that even suggests that abstinence may be a viable solution.

Thank you, AK for such a thought-provoking and insightful post.

[j-vo]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Thanks, Allan, for bringing this up. Alcoholism is the disease of denial, and once we get away from al for a short period of time, we think we are immune to its dangers. I know I have gone back and forth, up and down, around and around with thinking I could moderate, only to be beaten up and almost eaten by the lion. This topic needs to be brought up and thought about all the time, for me at least. I know what al-free time has done to me in the past, and I don't want to fall into the same trap. I need to remember what alcohol has done to me, how it almost destroyed me.

[TJAF]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

I haven't posted much lately but I still lurk from time to time.

For me the idea of tempting ones self by hanging out a bar or going to a party that you know will be an Al orgy is akin to walking down an unlit street in a high crime area. If we make it through so what, its still stupid.

As for moderation, as an alcoholic I just can't think of having just one drink and I'd challenge anyone here on this board with thinking they can do just that. If you could handle just one drink you'd have never had a problem to begin with. In the old days, before I even had a sip, I was already thinking about the next one. Once a bottle was down by a drink I was looking to buy the next one. How many of you had the habit of stopping at the liquor store even though you had a bottle at home ...its the way we think, the way our brains are wired ( or rewired). Moderation...good god, why in the world would you even want to moderate considering the hell you just walked away from.

I crave alcohol, still do after nearly a year. that's all I need to know. The argument for moderation is always in my ear but I know its a trick...a dirty trick from an unforgiving bastard.

[allankay]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

TJAF;1679973 wrote:
For me the idea of tempting ones self by hanging out a bar or going to a party that you know will be an Al orgy is akin to walking down an unlit street in a high crime area. If we make it through so what, its still stupid.

My thoughts exactly!!!

[allankay]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Byrdlady;1679921 wrote: AllanKay,
Your post could not be more timely...
I JUST had something written in the nest and deleted it. As you know, I get blasted quite a bit for my 'radical' thinking....but I have something most do not...LONG TERM SOBRIETY. I HATE AL for what it has done to me and my friends here. I HATE the destruction it causes, the denial it creates in people....AL shows no mercy, it plays for ALL the cards. It is not happy until it has consumed us. What I was writing about in the nest was the term 'Moderation'. As we know, by the book that means 14 units per week for a man and 7 for a woman. There is debate about what 'LONG TERM' means, but I think it means more than a few weeks....more than a few months....actually, to me, if you are really considering it, it means for the rest of your life. So the way I see it played out here (by personal experience AND documented here) is that the 2 situations never play out together. There may be some moderating by THE PERSON'S standards, but cutting down to 7 drinks per day from 14 isn't really moderating....it's killing yourself less slowly. I have never seen anyone practice SUCCESSFUL LONG TERM MODERATION. You may get away with it for a short time, but that feeling of always being deprived is going to get the better of our ALKIE minds. Remember moderation on this site says it's only possible with those heavy duty drugs (along with ALL of their side effects). Having been on both sides of this debate, I wish I could show folks in a crystal ball how much better things are WITHOUT AL at all. I do not ever LONG for the ability to drink. I don't MISS it. I hit the SWITCH for indifference to AL because I do not consume it. I do NOT want it back. I wish there were a way to show people 'the other side' getting out from under AL's grip altogether. Going thru all these awful gyrations just so we can drink is pointless. It's going to turn out the same way. My money is on AL every time. The only way WE can win against AL is NOT to consume it. Unfortunately, we all have to find out for ourselves and usually the hard way. We are too impatient to prove we can do it...that we are the exception. If we really did our homework, we could save ourselves A LOT of despair, time, energy, guilt, shame, remorse and money. I applaud people who get it right the first time...because I sure didn't.

It breaks my heart to see folks struggle along to get 30 days....3 months, a YEAR! and then blow it thinking they will be the exception. AL wins every time. If I had seen it work a few times, I might think differently. I have NEVER seen it work out. NEVER...not once. So I am in 100% agreement with you.....get quit and STAY quit. Protect your quit as if your life depended on it. It does.

Well done to you, Allan, you are coming up on 2 years! I'm so proud of you!!! Byrdie

Byrdie,

I created this post after seeing a few people falling of the wagon. And especially after seeing "Londoner" succeed and fail, succeed and fail, so many times!!! Every time before a big binge he says "Well I am going to test myself this weekend". This is by no means to put him down. But man you have tripped on the same wire a dozen times in one year!!! Believe it or not, the wire is still there!

So the post was not as much about moderation but about people going into something that they know they are not ready for. They know it may end badly but the desire to test one self is so persistent. Your body will tell you when you are ready! Your mindset will change completely.

As far as moderation goes, I wouldn't want it even if I could. Its like eating a tiny bite of your favourite desert and then watch every one else stuff themselves.

AK

[Byrdlady]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Oops, sorry to get off topic here Allan! I wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to discuss my opinions on moderation!!

In my case, this sort of went hand in hand. I kept tripping over the wire, too. But I kept thinking that with my increased knowledge and ability to completely stop for X number of days that I had the advantage. NOT. There at the end, I was like a boxer going back into the ring after having the #$% beat out of me, but I kept going back in!! It is frustrating to watch, but more frustrating to do! After a while, even I got the message: Get the heck out of this ring! This thing's gonna kill me! B

[NoSugar]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

allankay;1679978 wrote:
As far as moderation goes, I wouldn't want it even if I could. Its like eating a tiny bite of your favourite desert and then watch every one else stuff themselves.
AK

I'm with you, Allan. Life is fine without it. If they developed a pill that would allow me to have an occasional drink now and then, I don't think I'd bother. Heck, I had to learn to stand the taste in the beginning -- alcohol really does not taste good at first. That means the effect is what most of us are after and that's not coming from a 5 ounce glass of wine that taking a pill might offer me.

If the idea that people prone to addiction have an underlying "dopamine deficiency" by one mechanism or another, it makes sense that non-addicted people have no idea what we're talking about. They don't get the same effect from a little or a lot - they don't need to "stuff themselves".

[TJAF]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Byrdlady;1679992 wrote: Oops, sorry to get off topic here Allan! I wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to discuss my opinions on moderation!!

In my case, this sort of went hand in hand. I kept tripping over the wire, too. But I kept thinking that with my increased knowledge and ability to completely stop for X number of days that I had the advantage. NOT. There at the end, I was like a boxer going back into the ring after having the #$% beat out of me, but I kept going back in!! It is frustrating to watch, but more frustrating to do! After a while, even I got the message: Get the heck out of this ring! This thing's gonna kill me! B

Byrdie, I'll take it one step further its not like getting back into the ring time and time again its more like never getting out of the ring. the bell never sounds, you just keep getting up and getting the crap pounded out of you. I have been around quite a few alkies and to a person I have never seen an Alkie moderate...WE DONT HAVE A CUT OFF SWITCH.

[NoSugar]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Good to see you again, TJAF! Glad you're doing well.

[TJAF]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

NoSugar;1679999 wrote: Good to see you again, TJAF! Glad you're doing well.

Thanks No Sugar...couple of weeks away from a year. Looking forward to it. Think I'll celebrate with a cup of tea.

[Lavande]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Good to see you TJ
Approaching your 1 year AF anni too!!!!

I have to agree with the majority here -
If it was possible to moderate after having 'crossed that line' & with a broken off switch then absolutely none of us would have searched out help to quit!!!!!
I quit & restarted many, many times on my own. When I was finally fed up being stuck in that rut I came here & quit for good.

No reason to go there ever again

[allankay]

Testing yourself and why you should not do it!

Lavande;1680018 wrote: Good to see you TJ
Approaching your 1 year AF anni too!!!!

I have to agree with the majority here -
If it was possible to moderate after having 'crossed that line' & with a broken off switch then absolutely none of us would have searched out help to quit!!!!!
I quit & restarted many, many times on my own. When I was finally fed up being stuck in that rut I came here & quit for good.

No reason to go there ever again

Lav, 5 years NF and AF. Forgetting everything else. It is so much money saved and extra 1-2 years of life added!!!

Can I just repeat so much money saved!

It pains me now to spend anything at a bar, especially when everyone is buying rounds so I have too as well. But just to think that ?100 was my typical bill for Alcohol for one week. Not counting all the associated expenditure: taxis, cigarettes, drinks for strangers, fast food, lost money and other items, damaged clothes...

So ?100 a week on AL + ?30 on cigarettes + ?20 on other stuff = ?150 a week

So over the last two years I have saved = 150*52*2 = ?15,600 That's a new BMW Mini, or 10 good holidays abroad. Now think how much this little decision will save us over a lifetime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AK