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Wellbutrin and topamax
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Wellbutrin and topamax
I take wellbutrin for depression and mood swings due to menopause. My understanding is it works by increasing the dopamine in the brain. Chapter 4 of the book says that the topamax works by washing away excessive dopamine. Am I actually causing additional cravings? Guess I am still not clear the connection between dopamine and alcoholism.Tags: None
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Wellbutrin and topamax
I'm on Welbutrin and Topamax at the full 300 mg dosage (welbutrin @ 200 mg). I hope R.J notices this thread and offers some advice, cuz this seems like a question for her."uch: When you kick youreslf in the butt, all you get is a sore butt and a tired foot"
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Wellbutrin and topamax
I also thought maybe this needed some advice from RJ, or someone who has been on this program for a while, and has seen this question answered. I have not started the topa yet, trying to find out if I need to be off the wellbutrin. Have been searching this sight, as well as searching the internet, but, as of yet, cannot find anything to decisively answer the question. Am still searching though.
Do you think that you are having more cravings than you had anticipated on the topa?
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Wellbutrin and topamax
I think that I fooled myself into thinking that if I started taking the topa that the cravings would magically go away, like some wizard waving a magic wand. So I kept on drinking my usual fifth of hard stuff a day as my Dr gradually increased the dosage, waiting for the desire to simply disappear as if by magic. I'm afraid it didn't work that work that way for me, but I was a very hard core alcohol addict. Every time I tried to stop, the withdrawl anxiety would be so miserable that after 1 - 3 days I would flip the f$^%@ it switch and decide it wasn't worth it. I now have a short term Librium scrip to get me through the first few weeks of withdrawl, and give the topa time to work on my brain. It seems to be working, but Librium is a benzodiazapine, and if taken for too long can be just as addictive as alcohol, and just as dangerous to withdraw from. Bear in mind, i drank a MINIMUM of a fifth of 80 proof shit for at least 15 years of my drinking career every day, usually more on the weekends. I have no idea why I'm not dead!! But I'm Grateful I'm not Dead(that's a pun). I've tried naltrexone, Campral, Antabuse, and the only thing that seems to be working is this combination of Librium short term for detox while the topa has time to work long term. I also use the All one powder, use Omega 3,6,9 oils, evening primrose oil, and exercise like a mad man. My bottom line is, no pill is going to solve the problem alone, just ease the discomfort and maybe turn the mountains and valleys into gently rolling hills at times. YOU have to do it. And you CAN damn it! Just never give up. Never, Never, Never give up. Sorry to be so long winded, I'm home alone and bored.:soapbox:"uch: When you kick youreslf in the butt, all you get is a sore butt and a tired foot"
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Wellbutrin and topamax
Hi, I'm home alone and bored too...that is my hard time. Anyway you are right the topa isn't a magic pill it just takes the edge off, makes some drinks taste awful (for me anyway) and will slowly help you forget that you want to drink or drink the whole thing.
I take both the wellbutian, 300 mg and topa, 100 mg. I hope they aren't cancelling each other out! I first did this program in early 2006 and was able to quit smoking and drinking moderate for just over a year (after doing 4 months AF) while taking both so something most of been working. But I got lazy, wasn't checking in with the boards (couldn't get the hang of the new look...) or following my own rules anymore and mods leaded back to full drinking at home alone again last fall so here I am again, trying again. I have been doing pretty good again but it is alot of will-power, something I seem to be lacking at times.
You can't let your guard down, take the supps, follow the boards...read, post. It all helps. But the bottom line is nothing will work unless you want it to!
Am anxious to hear if the Wellbutian / topa do cancel each other out. It might make things alittle easier if I was to take the topa and switch the Wellbutian to something else. Has anyone tried the SAM-E for depression and mood swings, does it help?
Best of luck to all and Take Care,
~Tammie"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
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Wellbutrin and topamax
Fortunately for me, I haven't had a cigarette since September of 1999. That's is part of what baffles me. If I could quit the nicotine, which according to most surveys is one of the most difficult drugs to beat, can't I seem to leave the damn booze alone... Wait, that's a B.S. negative self fulfilling prophecy. I can and will leave the S*&$ alone. Before it kills me or puts me in the nut house."uch: When you kick youreslf in the butt, all you get is a sore butt and a tired foot"
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Wellbutrin and topamax
I quit a 2 pack a day habit in Jan 99, and always believed it was the hardest thing I ever did! When I made up my mind to quit, I looked to see what was out there to help. There was Zyban (wellbutrin), the patches, gum etc. I said I wanted EVERYTHING available to help..On D-Day, on my way to work, smoked about a 1/2 a pack (it's only a 30 minute drive!), took a zyban, slapped on a patch, and that was it. I couldn't think of anything else for at least 4 weeks...
I am only telling this becuz it gives me hope that I can also do this with all the "crutches" available to me, and I plan to use every one of them! It also continues to remind me that these cravings will not disappear quickly.
I just don't want to be setting myself up for failure if wellbutrin, the dopamine enhancer, is counter-productive to the topa, what I call the 'Pacman of excess dopamine".
I am considering just dropping it, and trying the Sam-E. Anyone have any positive results with it?
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Wellbutrin and topamax
Prindi, I also take Wellbutrin- I quit smoking cold turkey in 2000 with Wellbutrin, and when I've tried to go from 300 mg to 150 mg, I feel the urge to smoke kick me in between the gums....
So, I'm resigned to the fact that I need to stay on Wellbutrin. Last March, my insurance would only cover the generic Wellbutrin, and it made me real jittery, so my doctor changed me to Cymbalta. Funny/embarrassing story: like every anti-depressant, Cymbalta says, "do not drink alcohol".... but I ignored it. What I didn't realize was that Cymbalta works by deadening the nerve receptors, so when I had a couple of beers- I didn't feel the rush. Therefore, I kept drinking, thinking I was FULLY functional. I drank a whole pitcher of Sangria at my friends house, and only stopped because she ran out! (The scary thought is if my daughter had called me for a ride, I would have drove- no doubt.) I woke up with the worst hangover!!! So, Cymbalta + Alcohol = DISASTER. Now, I'm on two 150 mg Wellbutrin, and the insurance covers it.
I'll keep following this thread too- interested in the official response......
Patty
Tampa, FL
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Wellbutrin and topamax
I took topamax for close to a year and it worked wonders as far as the cravings. I stopped taking it because I was having some hair issues.
I started on Wellbutrin about 7 months ago and began and thought I would go back to a low dose of topa. I have heard that topa may not have the same effect the second time around, but now that you mention it, it did not seem to squelch the cravings as much as round one. However, I was only taking 50mg.
Because it really wasn't working as well as I hoped, I have stopped taking it (topa.) I'm still taking WB for depression so I will be interested to see additional responses.
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Wellbutrin and topamax
I've been reading about the dopamine controversy and the wellbutrin vs. topamax stuggle on the boards for awhile, so I decided to check it out in the Physicians' Desk Reference, a nearly unreadable guide to all of the prescription and non-prescription drugs out there. A degree in chemistry helps. I am not responsible for your interpretation of the following--check it out with your doctor--but this is my read: The SSRI's (Prozac, Paxil, Lexapro etc.) are all "chemical cousins" meaning that they are similar drugs. After nearly 20 years on the market, no one is quite sure how they work, but they do. Long term safety looks good so far. They seem to work by inhibiting the re-uptake of the neurotransmitter, serotonin, thus increasing the amount of serotonin in the neuronal cleft. Neurons have spaces between them and communicate with each other via these neurotransmitters of which thousands have been identified. No one know why when serotonin levels fall depression results, or if that is even what happens. The neurons re-cycle serotonin and by using an SSRI that process is slowed which increases the amount of serotonin in the neuronal cleft. As a result, mood goes up, sometimes cravings go down, and sometimes sleep improves. The important point here is that the SSRI's have essentially no effect on the levels of dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain. They can be helpful in treating anxiety as well as depression.
Wellbutrin is an antidepressant in a class by itself. For some unknown reason, it also can be helpful in stopping smoking. It slows down the re-uptake of norepinephrine, another neurotransmitter implicated in depression. Wellbutrin has essentially no effect on the levels of dopamine and serotonin. So, Wellbutrin does not counteract the effect of topamax --they don't operate in the same territory. Since topamax is not approved for the treatment of alcoholism the PDR was less helpful here in the possible mechanism of action. However topamax seems to increase the number of / or the sensitivity of GABA receptors in the brain which when stimulated, decrease pain. I didn't read anything about dopamine. So there's another mystery which I will continue to explore. I'm getting the drift from some messages on the board that alcohol floods the brain with dopamine and topamax cleans it up--but the PDR said nothing about topamax's effect on brain dopamine. It said plenty about stabilizing brain electrical activity--it's first use was as an anti-epileptic drug, and its next approval was for migraines (see above about increasing GABA receptors), and its being tested for decreasing food cravings. How do these relate? Hell if I know.
My personal experience with topamax thus far (150 mg.) is that is definitely puts a damper on things, but it sure isn't the magic switch. I have noticed if I forget a dose of kudzu (particularly before dinner) I am much more likely to have a glass of wine. All and all I am down by about half, which is okay so far as I am trying for moderate drinking. I am generally feeling less desperate about the whole issue which is nice. I am extremely fond of the "subliminal" tape--I usually fall asleep.
So to emphasize 1000 mg. of Kudzu does seem to work (and I think I might try more--possibly with a side of Kaopectate) with the cravings!!
Some years ago I tried SAM-E which seemed to help some, and I took it at night to minimize the G I distress--and I can't remember why I stopped it. It is supposed to be a chemical that is necessary and present in all cells. I think if it works for you, great, but if there were some posts from those of the bipolar persuasion who had some terrible times with it. Nothing like your own experience.
That said, Iowegian, I don't know, but I think I'd take a Librium addiction over a daily fifth of booze habit any day. You can slowly wean yourself (1mg. per week) off the Librium after you get the other stuff squared away. Librium isn't going to do a number on your brain and liver the way booze will. Just a thought.
Salem
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