Round the merry go round again?

[7catsfortea]

I need some advice on obtaining medication. I live in the UK and let's just say I started drinking at an early age to blot out some pretty horrific abuse (details aren't unimportant and I'd be here for hours if I tried to explain). At the start of 2007 I decided to make a proper effort to either cut down or quit. I had spent the last 12 years going to various doctors all over the country over various mental health issues and each and every time was told I needed referring to the bog standard non-directive counsellor. I'd estimate I've been to around 20 of them, and each and every time I have found them worse than useless. I don't like being made to wait ages, then seeing someone only occasionally, to ruminate over things that I've been through a million times and to be frank would rather talk about with friends I trust and actually know something about so that there's an equal balance of power and knowledge of the other person in the relationship.

So I did some research and went to my doctor and asked about naltrexone, campral and antabuse, expecting that I'd be able to obtain one of these. The doctor said to me that he'd never seen anyone so motivated to make an effort with this problem in his whole time as a GP, and referred me to the local substance misuse representative who would be in the surgery the next day. Cue the usual infuriating kick in the teeth - I need counselling, medication is "too expensive", "out of the question", he's "never prescribed these drugs to someone under 40" and most unbelievably of all "binge drinking is part of British culture, don't worry about it" (exact quotation) which I pointed out is like being told your cancer isn't bad enough, come back in 2 years time when its terminal and we'll treat you. After an hour and a half of argument, I knew I was wasting my time, and went home so distraught I spent the rest of the year in the worst drug and alcohol usage period of my life, only quitting because in a withdrawal delirium I fell from a 3rd floor window and broke 3 bones, including my back, hit my head and have a big bald patch now and was in hospital for 2 months.

I also had to leave my rental property whilst still in a highly restrictive back immobiliser and somehow managed to bluff my way through questions about my head injury when looking for new people to live with, and by throwing caution to the wind and not wearing the immobiliser during the search. I have quit all other drugs and the other good news is that my alcohol intake is 1/2 of what it was a year ago. I recently had a blood test for glandular fever in the new catchment area, and the interesting thing that came out of it was a call from the doctor asking to discuss my liver enzyme levels with me. My motivation came flooding back as I realised there were possibilities again and I went to see him the next day and I'm back exactly where I started 17 months ago - the doctor was very impressed by my motivation but in order to get a prescription I'll need to go to the local drug and alcohol services. I am now terrified of the usual we're not listening & you need counselling. In my world that contains this thing called common sense when an approach on someone has consistently and repeatedly failed it's time to change that approach. I now fear being told by them that because I don't want a counsellor that I obviously need counselling to counsel me out of not liking counsellors, before needing counselling for the alcohol problem.

Sorry this is so long, but I'm sober and feeling level headed this morning and will face this situation in a few weeks. I have well trusted friends I can talk to for emotional support and I desperately want to try the chemical approach, which has worked in other areas of my life, and in particular I would like to try Campral. I would be devastated by the frustration of another kick in the teeth. Those of you who have managed to obtain it, how? Oh, and I don't do religion/spirits/higher powers either because I simply believe such ideas to be false. Do I have to just agree to go to something that I don't want to do in exchange for getting what I want, or have I a decent change of being heard?

Thanks for reading.

[nancy]

Round the merry go round again?

Welcome to the site! :welcome:

I think you probably should read up on this website about dealing with doctors. It's been covered in the medication section and written about a lot. I know there have been threads about dealing with doctors in the UK. So you could do a search for those terms, doctor, UK.
We also have several members here from the UK and who might be able to help you with some advice.

Sounds like you need an addiction specialist (an MD) who may be more open to the medication approach, as opposed to a general doctor. Also, I guess it helps to print out scientific literature and take it with you to the doctor. You have every right to try meds if that is what you think is best for you.

I think it is great that you have cut down already on your intake and hope you continue with that.

Also, don't give up on counselling just because you have had some bad experiences. Some are not very good I agree and are not directive enough, but there are a few good ones out there.

I am sure some other people will come along to offer you advice.

[FloridaBoy]

Round the merry go round again?

:welcome: If you are motivated to be AF try the Kudzu from this site and you may not need 'real' drugs. It worked for me.

I don't like being made to wait ages, then seeing someone only occasionally, to ruminate over things that I've been through a million times and to be frank would rather talk about with friends I trust and actually know something about so that there's an equal balance of power and knowledge of the other person in the relationship.

You will find that you have a lot of 'friends' right here. People just like yourself.

[Loppy lugs]

Round the merry go round again?

Hi 7

Sounds like you have been through the mill a bit.

My experience is completely the opposite of yours. I have had real trouble accessing the other services. Like your GP, mine wanted to help but as the letters kept coming back from cousellors, drug and alcohol units etc saying that they couldn't help for one reason or another even she was getting embarrassed. Apparantly it didn't matter how big a mess I got myself in, I didn't fit the right criteria.

So finally after several months of this I went back and asked for Antabuse. I knew that as the oldest drug on the market it was the cheapest. I also put it simply that at the moment it didn't matter why I drunk, I just needed to stop. I said that whatever problems came up I needed for alcohol not to be the answer. That with antabuse, alcohol couldn't be the answer because it would just make me vomit profusely which wouldn't solve anything.

I had also read up a bit about having to cut down enough to be able to take it in the first place and had a plan which I convinced her would work. OK because of the potential side effects I have to be monitored and I'm not sure she will let me stay on it for long, but for me it is worth it. I am 19 days AF which is the best I have been in 16 years.

I think your best plan is to go back to the GPs again, write a list of everything that has happened since you first went for help. Say this is not working for me. Please help. I believe antabuse will help because..... I can't continue like this because.......... I don't want to end up in A&E again....or try something totally different ........such as the counselling won't work while I am still drinking. I need to get off alcohol first. Perhaps that will stop them wasting your time and their very scarce resources.

Not sure that this is going to be much help but it worked for me.

Best of luck

[beatle]

Round the merry go round again?

Hello and welcome here! You have already got some good advice here. I don't have much to add other than to reinforce what has been said.

I'd also like to re-emphasize that so very very many of us have been through similar experiences. It is an outrage beyond words that people desperately seeking help consistently don't get it. Not only are countless people's lives ruined that need not be, it is also a huge drain on the social system and economy because so much sickness, disease, injuries could be prevented if people honestly trying to stop drinking were given the help they need.

Well, I did not mean to rant and rave. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone, and you CAN get the help you need -- and the members here will help you. Do not despair.

Oh yes, and one more thing, you can order many drugs through the internet-- I've never done it so I don't know how, but lots of members here have done it.

Another alternative (what I did) is to just shell out the money for a visit to a private doctor-- where I live, they will usually prescribe whatever you ask for if you come with a well-prepared argument.

Anyway, there is a huge amount of collective knowledge here, and a huge amount of sharing of that knowledge.

So don't give up!

[7catsfortea]

Round the merry go round again?

Thanks for the replies guys. Somehow I feel I might have a chance this time. I'm too fired up to make a final decision at this precise moment, but possibilities include:

1. Use intellect and reading of many user inputs here to decide which online pharmacies are genuine, similar to how I've done the same thing with the odd computer virus when downloading someone else's fix program, which of course is a risk in itself.

2. Give the kudsu a whirl.

3. Investigate the private doctor approach. When I said I went on the 2007 drug binge it was GBL/GHB, which is so cheap that, despite its utter destructiveness, I saved ?1000s, perhaps subconsciously in preparation for this.

4. Go along to the local drug and alcohol unit when I get my appointment in a few weeks with evidence from credible sounding URLs in a similar way to using credible sounding people in (1), including the printout of this conversation. I'm quite a good diplomat, but I take my inspiration from pretty strange and sometimes dark places, and I feel like I'm in the position not dissimilar to the victims of the American government's reckless actions in various places around the world. I take inspiration from Kim Jong Il's nuclear brinksmanship in protecting his government, and my frustration has quite frankly hit nuclear levels. If I do go for (4) I am not leaving without a medication prescription unless I am dragged out kicking and screaming by an army of policemen.

You are right - the words absolute fucking outrage are all I can manage right now. Anyone would think that a recovered alcohol addict with 9 GCSEs and 4 A levels (with no grade lower than a B) and maths graduate from an elite university couldn't find a useful job and contribute to society once they've fixed the problem, and isn't worth treating at a cost of around ?300 for the recommended 1 year program because they're better of claiming state benefits for the next 40 years before draining the NHS of its resources as they die slowly and painfully of liver disease in hospital. I am absolutely fuming.

:thanks:

[Captnjack]

Round the merry go round again?

OK You have every right to be absolutley fuming I am not medically qualified this is a personal experience. Can i just make a suggestion if you can detox safely ( have you gone cold turkey ) nothing to mess around with I know. Hey any way preaching to the converted you have been there done that. I was drinking close to 2 and a half litres of white wine a night for close to 6 years> I held down the job and paid the mortgage bought up the child held the paterner ship together ( ALL JUST) but findidng RJs book changed all that. If you can AND I stress only if you can read the book and follow the regime to the letter IT WORKS. One bit I had to alter was the Topomax> Now I had tried docs like you gave them the articles ect NO TAKERS. I Purchased mine from in house pharmacy on line the topa is not generic it is the real thing but expensive. The same as if a docter had perscibed it. Can I say, it worked for me but I could only handle a 25 mg dose the book suggests going up to 300mg. That may be ok but 25mg with following the books suggestions ie supplements extremley important worked for me I did not use the suggested hypno cd but used a single Australian version which I find is great. I have had many days alcohol free but not enough I am seeking totall abstinance. You need to make your own plan we can do this but white knuckle determination is still required NO ILLUSIONS here.

Hope this helps PM me for any other help I can provide I am sorry if I sound preachy. I am not religious although bought up a catholic can I say lapsed just passionate about beating this thing sorry for the long post

All the best Cap

[srand]

Round the merry go round again?

Topamax

Capt. Did you start out with the topamax from the beginning, or did you add that later? I have done everything but the topa and am still drinking. I want to totally quit. Thanks, Susu

[Captnjack]

Round the merry go round again?

Srand/Susu did the thing according to the book ie topa supps hypno religiously from the "beginning" I like the book experience ceased to drink instantly no interest at all. It does work but I have a partener who drinks THAT is my downfall. I have reduced my intake trying to stay positive helps. Like you I want to quit totally read the posts here particulary the long term absatiners or the 30 day guys they have great advice I think it takes at least 30 days al free and things become better. No illusions its a a battle in the begining but not forever I believe those that have suceeded it does get easier with every day. By the way I have always thought the Allen Carr book with the crap title " EASY WAY TO STOP DRINKING" helped me.

Take care and feel welcombe to PM me any time I have been battling this bugger for a long time

Love Capt

[Guest]

Round the merry go round again?

I am just going to add my two penneth. I am a young, fit graduate who lost many a job through my drinking. I went to my GP in 2003 with my problem. Sent home with sedatives to help with the shakes. Referred to NHS alcohol team which entailed 6 month wait. Lost job in meantime and went from bingeing to attempting every day drinking. I won't bore y ou with the rest - but I tried it all. Several suicide attempts but was turned down when I asked to be sectioned or taken in for AL treatment.

Same cycle repeats. Tried AA, went home scared. Stopped once on my own for 6 months then back on in more serious style. Went to GP - six month wait. So tried private detox for ?3k. Horrid, clinical, forced on 12 steps/AA again. Came out relapsed again and again. Got to top of 6 month NHS list - told by AL worker that because I binged I was not alcoholic, it was all under my own control and not suitable for residential treatment. I fell out with the guy, stopped going to AA and headed towards my own rock bottom. Eventually got ther and not prepared to wait or deal with NHS. Found a private place via this site. Very good, built up confidence and volunteered to go to AA again (really wanted to do it!). Spent ?6k for 3 weeks. Came back full of energy.

Went to GP, told him how I had changed - and he could really see it, asked for Campral - he was over the moon to give it to me. You really have to have stopped for Campral to help, or it's a waste of time which is why they would never give it to me previously.

I have had one slip in over 10 weeks - the slip was 3 hours and very boring so I don't think it will happen again.

So - really this is hard work but you have to do the hard work yourself - find the right people, surround yourself with them and get sober. Some of the medical profession is ignorant in the field but more and more are getting info/training etc, becoming enlightened. I found wingeing, complaining, thrashing around for an easy 'cure' was useless. I had to turn around and look at myself. It's scary but stick around and you can do this.

[Guest]

Round the merry go round again?

Oh, just wanted to add - I had tried counselling before but whilst AL is still hanging around affecting your thinking and emotions it can actually make you worse. Chicken and egg but the harsh reality can be that you have to find the strength to stop the AL, clear your head then start the hard work.

[beatle]

Round the merry go round again?

UKblonde wrote:

"Some of the medical profession is ignorant in the field"

correction: MOST of the medical profession is ignorant in the field.

Another thing: I don't think 7cats has failed thus far for lack of hard work and trying. Hardly.

I totally agree with Ukblonde about counseling. The doctors at the forefront of alcoholism research are saying most alcoholics with psychological problems develop their psychological problems BECAUSE they are alcoholics and not vice-versa... so attacking the mental side before the addiction is useless.

[Dolly Sunshine]

Round the merry go round again?

Ukblonde;329343 wrote: Oh, just wanted to add - I had tried counselling before but whilst AL is still hanging around affecting your thinking and emotions it can actually make you worse. Chicken and egg but the harsh reality can be that you have to find the strength to stop the AL, clear your head then start the hard work.

I agree with this 210%. You will never ever improve while AL is clouding your thinking.

[believer]

Round the merry go round again?

Hi 7Cats.

We can't get Campral or Antabuse in Canada, so I ordered from Riverpharmacy (there is an ad on this site). They are the real deal (I know, because I "tested" the antabuse - one sip of wine and my face went bright red and my heart started pounding). I think they also have naltrexone. It takes a while to come, and is expensive, but for me, worth it. Day 23 AF (except for the sip!). Longest in 16 years.

:welcome:

[Loppy lugs]

Round the merry go round again?

Daft question, but how easy is it to get perscription onlly drugs through customs?

At the moment I seem to get a bill for duty with every parcel that arrives.