Experience with Naltrexone

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Thanks so much Starting :l

The first day I did worry if it might be a fluke (BTW I did actually mean about 15mg- or a third of a tab, I have changed it now) but after yesterday, I can really see how this could work.

I think the trick will be in taking it, and just trying to forget about everything and carry on the day- having a drink when the urge comes along as one always did for years (until the worrying about it set in, and the mental battles began).

It is still early days but I feel very optimistic about this- and I hope anybody else who is struggling to get any real AF time under their belt will look into it.

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Aww thanks O2-thank you for caring!

I must admit I feel more confident today- I was nervous before wondering if I would be one of the ones it doesn't work for. As the medication definitely does affect me, now I am just hoping I don't become immune to it- I do expect to gradually have to up the dosage until I reach the recommended 50mg- then hopefully I can just take a pill for the next 90 days- drink if I get a craving and be cured.

It sounds too damn good to be true doesn't it? But that is basically how his system works.

Dr. Sinclair says Naltrexone has only had limited success generally because people are told to take it and NOT drink.

[startingover]

Experience with Naltrexone

Knowledge is power Marbs, you have all the knowledge about this you know the pros and cons you are prepared. I take my hat off to you.

[A Work in Progress]

Experience with Naltrexone

Marbella, this is pretty fascinating and I am so glad you are having very good results, so far.

I am wondering if this method has been tested by anything that might be considered a genuine "controlled trial" research protocol, and if not, why not? One would think that the pharmaceutical company that makes the stuff would be happy to fund some trials... I'll have to do a search in the actual journals and see if I can find anything.

Wonderful thread, best wishes, and keep us posted!!

wip

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Hi Wip

I would be very grateful if you could find further information- the most I have found is the very interesting podcast where Dr. Sinclair was interviewed by ShrinkRapRadio.com.

I bought an ebook from this site by a lady who has followed Dr Sinclair's results and methods, and although she recommends him in her ebook, she does not actually give any information about research or long term results.

Dr. Sinclair himself said the problem is getting the information out there- which seems quite sad in this information age. I guess people (particularly the old school medical profession) are quite quick to turn their backs on a method that encourages an alcoholic to continue drinking- I even expected some negative comments about that here.

If it works for me long term, believe me, I will be shouting it from the rooftops!

[Cinders]

Experience with Naltrexone

Marbella,

Again, I want to thank you very much for starting this thread and keeping it up.

Like you said, the idea is to unlearn the behavior, which will take time.

I am glad the Naltrexone has some effect on you. It had absolutely none on me when I tried it. I drank right through it. Apparently it works on about 70% of the alcoholic population.

If this works and you document your journey, you may be able to reach so many people on this site. I am proud of you.

Love,
Cindi

[A Work in Progress]

Experience with Naltrexone

Well, there are really three groups here that are players. One is the traditional alcohol treatment people, nearly all 12-steppers who have very little in the way of advanced training (usually not PhDs or MDs); another is the group of MDs who practice general or family medicine, or psychiatry, and the vast majority of them know almost nothing about alcohol and drug dependency, other than the 12-step model. Third is the group of actual researchers in psychology, neuroscience, and medicine, people with PhDs and MDs, most of whom work at universities and get funding from grants to do genuine research. They publish their results in genuine peer-reviewed journals. Those who are interested in the effects of medication(s) can seek funding from the pharmaceutical companies, which are usually interested in getting legitimate researchers to run studies on their drugs (much more prestigious and scientifically persuasive than in-house studies that they run, themselves).

In the USA, for example, there are prominent alcohol/drug researchers at the University of Washington (Alan Marlatt) and the University of Wisconsin, who are actively researching the use of meditation as a primary method for preventing relapse. They are very much NOT affiliated with the 12-step model. These are the kinds of people who I would expect to be very interested in researching something like this "Sinclair" method. I am always suspicious of a clinically-based doctor or therapist (one who treats patients, but who does not actually do research published in peer-reviewed journals) who creates and promotes a program, especially if he names it after himself! Kind of like the whole "Lenair" thing that I have posted about on other threads.

Most of the stuff we find written in books about alcohol/drug abuse is based only very loosely on legitimate research findings (stuff like the "serotonin diet" and similar self-help books are mostly junk science, at best). It is usually either anecdotal (the author's own experience, or what he claims was his experience) or somebody's own program that they created, which has not been subjected to genuine research or peer review.

But as you, and others, have said, the idea is intriguing, and we do seem to have some inkling as to the biochemical effects of this drug that are consistent with the theory that Sinclair is advancing. It certainly seems to be worth a try, for someone looking for an alternative, and I would also think it bears closer study by some of the bigger "guns" in the research world!

I'll report back as to whatever I might find.

wip

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Another thing that is nice about this method is that I am really looking forward to taking my pill. It will keep me straight without stopping me doing anything I want to do.

When I was taking Antabuse (I am not criticizing Antabuse at all, because it saved the lives of two of my friends and is a godsend for thousands of others) I would stare at it for about 10 seconds- put it to my mouth- take it away- stare at it again, put it to my mouth, so on, so on, until I would force it in telling myself what a wuss I was.

This is just so much nicer for me- I am actually counting down till 4pm

SORRY X Posted! Going to read your replies now!

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Cinders;431103 wrote: Marbella,

Again, I want to thank you very much for starting this thread and keeping it up.

Like you said, the idea is to unlearn the behavior, which will take time.

I am glad the Naltrexone has some effect on you. It had absolutely none on me when I tried it. I drank right through it. Apparently it works on about 70% of the alcoholic population.

If this works and you document your journey, you may be able to reach so many people on this site. I am proud of you.

Love,
Cindi

Cindi-

I think I am lucky that most meds make me feel ill and although I do not feel nauseous on this low dose, just the thought of certain foods and indeed drinking make me feel very slightly queasy. I am fancying more fruit and moist foods as opposed to heavy doughy stuff.

I know it is early days yet- it does seem others started off well but were able to later drink through it, so I am thanking God for everyday this does not happen.

Thank you for your good wishes!

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

A Work in Progress;431106 wrote: Well, there are really three groups here that are players. One is the traditional alcohol treatment people, nearly all 12-steppers who have very little in the way of advanced training (usually not PhDs or MDs); another is the group of MDs who practice general or family medicine, or psychiatry, and the vast majority of them know almost nothing about alcohol and drug dependency, other than the 12-step model. Third is the group of actual researchers in psychology, neuroscience, and medicine, people with PhDs and MDs, most of whom work at universities and get funding from grants to do genuine research. They publish their results in genuine peer-reviewed journals. Those who are interested in the effects of medication(s) can seek funding from the pharmaceutical companies, which are usually interested in getting legitimate researchers to run studies on their drugs (much more prestigious and scientifically persuasive than in-house studies that they run, themselves).

In the USA, for example, there are prominent alcohol/drug researchers at the University of Washington (Alan Marlatt) and the University of Wisconsin, who are actively researching the use of meditation as a primary method for preventing relapse. They are very much NOT affiliated with the 12-step model. These are the kinds of people who I would expect to be very interested in researching something like this "Sinclair" method. I am always suspicious of a clinically-based doctor or therapist (one who treats patients, but who does not actually do research published in peer-reviewed journals) who creates and promotes a program, especially if he names it after himself! Kind of like the whole "Lenair" thing that I have posted about on other threads.

Most of the stuff we find written in books about alcohol/drug abuse is based only very loosely on legitimate research findings (stuff like the "serotonin diet" and similar self-help books are mostly junk science, at best). It is usually either anecdotal (the author's own experience, or what he claims was his experience) or somebody's own program that they created, which has not been subjected to genuine research or peer review.

But as you, and others, have said, the idea is intriguing, and we do seem to have some inkling as to the biochemical effects of this drug that are consistent with the theory that Sinclair is advancing. It certainly seems to be worth a try, for someone looking for an alternative, and I would also think it bears closer study by some of the bigger "guns" in the research world!

I'll report back as to whatever I might find.

wip

Thanks Wip- did you get a chance to listen to the podcast? He did explain how he came to be researching it in Finland, but not being at all up on how the medical profession works- it meant very little to me!

Well off to do a few hours work outside the house- will look very much forward to hearing whatever you might come up with.

[A Work in Progress]

Experience with Naltrexone

Haven't listened to it yet, Marbs, will try to make myself do so (I kinda hate listening to podcasts... ).

wip

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

I do too! I never listen to them, but this one is actually interesting

[nancy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Hey Marbella

I listened to that podcast of Sinclair. You were right, very interesting. But did you hear the end where the host says he didn't get to ask a question? It was an important one that occurred to me as well.

Sinclair says that when you take naltrexone, the number of receptors for endorphins increases dramatically. So when you are off it, the experience of pleasure is enormously higher than usual. So the catch is, when you go off naltrexone, does your pleasure with alcohol increase tenfold if you drink without the drug? Too bad Sinclair was already off the line and could not answer.

Also, he seems to be saying to only take it on days you are drinking. This makes sense to me because it would block all kinds of pleasures, some of which you need, like endorphins related to maternal instincts. Are you taking it every day?

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Hi Nancy

I listened to the podcast twice, and the second time around I caught a few things I missed the first.

Dr. Sinclair did actually answer that, and said that three years after some trials were done, a certain percentage of subjects were modders- they drank on average something like just under one drink a day or six drinks a week (this is of the top of my head, so don't quote me!) BUT every time they were going to have a drink, they would take a dose of Naltrexone.

He recommends taking Naltrexone for around 3 months on a daily basis regardless of whether you think you will drink or not- (some patients need a bit longer) then after the 3 or 4 months, you only need take it on an as needed basis.

So yes it is a lifelong commitment, but then so is AA abstinence or taking drugs for a myriad of other disorders, and seeing as after the initial treatment your brain should not want to drink at the drop of a hat, but you may want to join in at Christmas or a family do, the inconvenience of making sure you always have some Naltrexone in the house should be slight- a bit like I make sure we alway have aspirin, plasters and one or two other things I guess.

If you found yourself without it- it should be easy to just say No, because your drinking addiction will be unlearnt. He says if somebody does drink without it within just a few months you are likely to be a fully blown addict again because that is how strong the previous learning was.

I felt on the first 2 days (for about 2 hours after taking it) that I couldn’t really be bothered to do anything. I did not feel bad- just not really bothered. However yesterday that had lifted, and I felt pretty normal. I had a beer- again it was nice, then I had a second one (in a social setting, I will write about it after this post) and I did not enjoy it one iota- but I was later able to enjoy the time I spent with my dogs, and watch TV as normal. My guess is watching TV or cuddling a dog, or indeed looking after children brings pleasure but it is not a rush that we get like when we take that first drink of the day (or possibly the perceived pleasure we get from taking the first drink) therefore our enjoyment to other things is not noticeably diminished- and even if we do notice it has decreased- well, we would simply know it is the drug and therefore I don't think it would give me major concern. I know in my case I am trying to treat an addiction that is threatening my life, and if i don't stop it pretty fast, it is likely to win. Plus, after the three months I should get extra pleasure from my dogs, and other activities that I will then participate in without Naltrexone, so all will be well, and back to normal.

For these reasons I am trying to get into a routine (as I did yesterday) that will involve taking the Naltrexone an hour before the first thought of drinking occurs (5pm normally, if I get a craving before I will take it immediately- it takes around half an hour to noticeably kick in, but you can actually take it with that first drink and as long as you drink slowly all should be OK). I feel I have taken one for about four hours before and that is plenty of time for me to drink- which doesn’t last long as there is no longer any pleasure, and maybe eat something I think I fancy but that isn’t really good for me, could be pizza, sweets or something, then by then I am ready for bed, but I find lying in bed very pleasurable, as I am feeling very relaxed- could be the Naltrexone or it could be that I am doing something I enjoy, reading or watching TV, or it could be that I have got into bed sober- but whatever- I am getting pleasure!

Then in the morning I am eating healthy stuff, drinking fresh juice and doing things I do not want the Naltrexone to work on. But as I said before even if it did work on them, the realisation why I was not feeling pleasure would take the worry out of it for me.

You could try it on as 'as needed basis' but I do not think that would be effective for me because I think my learning is very very deep.


A Condensed version-

From the age of 14 to 16 I weekend binge drank- so I learned on weekends to get paralytic.

To the mix I then added:

From 16 onwards I began a relationship with an alcoholic 12 years older than me. I also began working in bars here and learned drinking was something you did every night (no days off work here in those days) and from 8pm till 5am.

I then added:

From the age of 24 onwards I moved in with someone who could be fairly mentally abusive- I then began drinking every time my self esteem took a dive- adding daytime drinks just for good measure- remember I had never unlearned the other things either!

I later added grief at the passing of pets and loved ones, feeling bad physically (especially the morning after- but they were all morning afters) hard times financially, when I saw or read of cruelty to animals or children, well over the years I have learned to drink in just about every possible scenario, so it makes sense to me at the moment to unlearn I must take Naltrexone every day, until one by one these triggers are unlearned.

I would actually expect me to be one of the ones needing a little longer as I started at such a young age, and have become such a regular everyday drinker.

I will take it everyday for 6 months if that is what it takes

I am just adding this as an afterthought- Dr. Sinclair also mentions that after a few weeks or so on the treatment, some patients will take a weekend off Naltrexone, and thoroughly indulge in other activities they enjoy. (Obviously you must be sure you won't drink or you will undo all the good work done) but I think this is a good idea as it will strongly enforce some new brain patterns for the activities you chose on those days- maybe going out in nature, eating healthily, exercise or sex are a few positive ones that spring to mind.

(The good thing about this med is if you had a day where you thought you would not drink, and did not take the Naltrexone, then something happens that you do drink, you can always quickly pop a tab as it is fast acting, so nothing is set in stone).

[bloggy]

Experience with Naltrexone

Day 3 on Naltrexone

I was in a setting outside of the house where I was not thinking of drink but I took a Naltrexone at 4pm.

I was not sure if we were doing anything last night-(as in I did not know if I would have strong triggers) my BF had mentioned he had to go to a friend's house to look at their TV which wasn't working-(it's his job) so when I took the Naltrexone I was not sure if we were going or if I would be in a drinking situation. Well anyway we went- I know them through him, but coincidentally she is alcoholic and he is a teetotaler (like us: me drinker- he nada) she automatically gave me a beer without asking- it was OK, I did feel a tiny bit warm inside but nothing like if I had not had the Naltrexone.
Soon after she opened me another. I did not get any pleasure out of it- nothing at all- It did not taste any different than usual, but I realised what a foul taste it actually has- I always thought I liked the taste- err..what? It tasted like week old goldfish bowl water.

Anyway I managed to get it down, and fortunately we were leaving then as I could not have drank another. I had no more cravings for anything else.

I went home, fed the dogs, got into bed and had another great night's sleep