Strictly Sinclair Week 2

[aurora borialis]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

I am nauseated and feel odd

Hi all. Sorry I haven't been here in a while but today I took my nal as usual. Though I haven't had to take it since the 23rd and I got really nauseous and shakey and this is puzzeling because usually I don't get these side effects and certianly not as badly. Why would I suddenly feel all kinds of side effects from something I have taken for a long time? The only thing I can think of is a possible interaction with Clariton nasal spray I have been using for allergies for the past 2 days. ??

[Stari]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Hi all. Stari here. I haven't posted much but have been reading this forum off and on for prolly 3 years or so. Glad to find this thread about the use of Naltroxene. I'm not doing the Sinclair Method since I've been sober for over 2 years now. But I am using Naltroxone. Being the good addict that I am, my alcohol addiction to an online gaming addiction once I stopped drinking.

My doc recently wrote me a script for Naltroxone as an anticrave med. He said that Nal is used for alcoholics, gamblers, addicts, et all compulsions since it blocks the opiate receptors. He said it would make it so I don't even care if I game or not. I've been on 100mg once per day for 2 weeks now. I was pretty ill the first week from side effects but don't really know if it's the Nal or not since he put me on several meds at the same time. All I know is that for my latest addiction... It's working! I have hardly gamed in days now. I have no idea if Nal will leave me not feeling other "pleasures" or not. I hope not but will keep you posted.

Does anyone else know if Nal numbs you for everything?

[Lenore]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

I take Nal, and I still get pleasure from working out...I was worried that I wouldn't.

[aurora borialis]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Thanks for the help Lena. I am ok now. took my Nal today and did not have any side effects.

[startingover]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

bump for jafa

[Zman]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

So what happened to everyone on this thread? Were the people who started in Jan-Feb cured?

[Lo0p]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Yes they are being cured. Several of the people have declared themselves cured and more and more of them are doing so almost weekly now it seems like. You can find them over at thesinclairmethod.com

I'm new to the sinclair method but after finding these people and reading their stories it seems like a miracle is going on here.

[minneapolisnick]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

The Sinclair Method and Naltrexone DEFINITIVELY CURE alcoholism

You folks really need to (a) start taking 50 mg of naltrexone one hour before drinking and (b) check the daily list of people being CURED of their alcoholism by following this method ("The Sinclair Method") at the Sinclair Message board. Virtually everyone who tries this method reports reduced drinking, controlled drinking, reduced cravings, no hangovers or blackouts and the gradual and eventual complete independence from alcohol. This is a non-profit site and there are no gimmicks -- just a bunch of recovering alkies who now know for themselves that there is a viable, simple, safe method for curing alcoholism. And it is, quite simply, by taking 50 mg of naltrexone one hour before you drink, every time you drink, for life. The cure rate in Europe is 80% -- it appears to be higher than that on our board. Go to The Sinclair Method board, look under General Discussion, and see the true journeys of the people who have declared themselves cured of their alcoholism, under "CONCLUSIVE PROOF TSM WORKS: THE OFFICIAL CURED LIST." The list is over ten and growing daily.

[WaitingToExhale]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Most of us have become primarily active on the Sinclair Method Forum rather than here - although many of us still pop in from time to time.

TSM is a grand variation from what many others are doing here, hence the start of the new forum back in February.

I can't yet count myself into the "cured" ranks, and will confess to some frustration at times, but we are seeing successes weekly. And with some of the changes that I already experience on a daily basis, I have NO DOUBT in my mind that I will soon be there too.

Here is the most recent list of TMSers and their back stories.

thesinclairmethod.com • View topic - ****CONCLUSIVE PROOF TSM WORKS: THE OFFICIAL CURED LIST****

It's not a quick fix. It won't solve your drinking problem overnight. It has a few uncomfortable side effects for many the first week or so - but those fade pretty rapidly. For many of us that have longer drinking histories or higher consumption than some of the original studies reported, there is more patience required in getting to the cure.

I tried Topa for over 3 months, and while I was seeing great improvements, the side effects were literally killing me. I dropped over 25 pounds in just a few months (not all do) but I didn't need to and got to a weight that I feared could possibly be stroke inducing. That and my hair falling out forced my decision to stop Topa.

I chose to try TMS primarily because it logically made sense to me on how extinction works. I don't care to take a tablet that makes me ill if I drink (Antibuse) or a medication that I will be required to take daily for the rest of my life and I personally find a bit frightening. (Bac). I want to break the crazy cycle once and for all and once there, IF I ever choose to drink socially I will do so with Naltrexone in my system.

Like others, I am planning on one day carrying around a Nal tablet in my purse that very well may become powder before I ever need, or want to take it because I CHOOSE to drink. I am not that far from having the choice back into my hands. =)

I hope anyone interested will pop on over and read the information on the site.

[Lusus Naturae]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Waiting,

That's great to hear. I did some heavy lurking on the tsm board up to about a couple of months ago, when I started lurking here. As you can see, I've de-lurked.

At the point I found out about bac, I was becoming a bit discouraged about nal. It seemed many were discouraged that extinction was taking longer than expected, and the successes didn't seem to be as plentiful as you now report. Good to hear that's turned around.

I can see where some of the problems people have had with bac could be a cause for pause. Fortunately for me, there was not much of that when I arrived here. I've had very good luck with it, with few side effects.

As far as bac needing to be taken for the rest of your life, that's unknown at this point. It's all guesswork until lots of studies are done that pinpoint exact effects, mechanisms of action, and probability of the inevitable side effects. Nal suffers from the same lack of research, as far as I know. There's a plausible theory for its mechanism of action, but as far as I know, there hasn't been much done yet to actually verify the theory.

And yes, as you point out, using nal to cause extinction of the rearrangement of neurons caused by drinking (The Sinclair Method) is quite different than using nal constantly to suppress craving. I'd suggest reading about it for anyone interested.

.

[Cinders]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

I have read it extensively and read over on thesinclairmethod.com site. I like to follow the progress of some of the people who used to log in here and am very excited to see so many doing so well.

One of my biggest concerns with using Naltrexone is that if you do ever start to drink again without taking Nal, you will become even more addicted because the use of Nal apparently allows your brain to generate more receptors than normal to compensate for the lack of stimulation from using Nal.

I can't recall where I read that but I figured that was me. I'd be sober for a few years and start drinking again and get even more addicted.

No one knows if Baclofen needs to be taken forever or not. Amiesen does continue to take it but at a very very low dose.

The big driver for me as to whether to use Nal or Bac was my physical condition. I was exhibiting all the signs of serious liver issues. Bruising, hair loss, other things a little too gross to mention here. My career was in jeopardy, too. I didn't have months to sober up. I had to quit asap.

If Nalmefene ever becomes available in the US, I may consider asking my doctor for a prescription to use in conjunction with Baclofen. That way if I ever did start drinking again, even on the Baclofen, I could use Nal for extinction.

But, it truly doesn't matter which way we decide to go, or both ways. What really matters is that there is help out there in the form of medications that are allowing people to get sober. Topa works for some, Baclofen works and so does Naltrexone.

To me, this is a miracle. It will be nice when the general medical community starts to catch up with these protocols and actually knows how to use them correctly.

Cindi

[WaitingToExhale]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Lusus -

I'm happy to hear you are making progress with Bac! However it - anything - should work for anyone I will celebrate. And I hope we ALL fight together - no matter what path we choose to journey.

But I do want to comment on a few points that you made:

"As far as bac needing to be taken for the rest of your life, that's unknown at this point. It's all guesswork until lots of studies are done that pinpoint exact effects, mechanisms of action, and probability of the inevitable side effects. "
I certainly do not profess to be any type of expert on the subject, but my research to date reads that it will require a lifelong program on a drug that has potentially dangerous withdrawal effects. I also personally found the lack of long-term studies of Bac to be a bit un-nerving.


"Nal suffers from the same lack of research, as far as I know. There's a plausible theory for its mechanism of action, but as far as I know, there hasn't been much done yet to actually verify the theory."
I respectfully dispute the above statement as Naltrexone has been in clinical trials of human since 1997 using The Sinclair Method. I believe one of the first studies was with the Finnish Public Health Institute, Department of Alcohol Research. That was with 147 patients of which 115 were declared "successful". Of the 78% success rate, Dr. Eskapa states in his book "may of the failures, but not all, were in patients who did not take the medication".

There are many other clinical studies documented such as the 2001 Finnish clinical trial by Heinala in 2001, the COMBINE study in 2001, a trial in Chicago by Maxwell & Shindeman and Henry Kranzler of the University of Connecticut's Dept of Psychiatry. And I could go on - but my point is there HAS BEEN years of medical trials proving that in fact the use of Naltrexone as described in The Sinclair Method have upwards of an 80% success rate.

Side note: "The results of Project COMBINE study was the largest clinical trial in the history of alcoholism research, consisting of 1383 diagnosed alcoholics and conducted by an assembly of the top American researchers in the field , and were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (May 2, 2006)"

Wow - I got long winded! HA! I guess it is because I believe in the science of TSM and it will be my cure - not just another band-aid. =)

[WaitingToExhale]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Hey Cinders - I seem to be cross posting all over the place today. And did want to say hello from long ago when I was on the Topa road!

No Cinders, being on TSM and finally having drinking in control or not drinking at - does NOT increase any receptors should you drink without it. BUT you will certainly go back to the "old habits" if you drink without Nal, and most likely pretty rapidly.

Nal doesn't "add" anything to your brain - it blocks. It's the old drooling dog crap we had to learn in Jr. High.

Ring the bell and get rewarded. Start ringing the bell and get NO reward (in the brain - you still drink) and pretty soon it's not such an issue (sub-consciously) to ring that bell any more. That is what Nal does, but over a very long re-learning curve.

I have to agree that for some the idea of continuing to "drink as normal" is just not an option. For those of us that feel we can, I think the final CURE is really out there with Nal.

Happy to hear you are doing so great! Right on!

[Anna B]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Hi WaitingtoExhale--

You make a lot of great points about the Sinclair Method. As an experimental psychologist, I firmly believe in the principles of extinction and hence the science behind TSM. However, after reading Dr. Sinclair's book and doing a lot of my own snooping around in scientific journals, my understanding is that the COMBINE study (and all of the other studies except Sinclair's own in Finland) didn't follow Sinclair's method. Instead of giving naltrexone to study participants before they drank, these researchers (except Sinclair of course) gave naltrexone to participants and told them NOT to drink. Naltrexone can help with cravings for some people so that's why there are some positive outcomes from these large-scale clinical trials. However, if you examine the statistics in these articles, the effect sizes (an index of how meaningful the results are, not their statistical significance) are quite small--likely b/c they weren't following TSM. Sinclair correctly points out that when you see long-term success with naltrexone is when people DO drink after taking it, not when they abstain. That's extinction.

I tried the Sinclair Method for 3 months (incidentally under the medical supervision of one of the physicians who authored some of the big papers on naltrexone and alcoholism). It's entirely possible that I didn't stay with the method long enough but I just got frustrated and gave up because I wasn't seeing any effects whatsoever.

My understanding from lurking on the Sinclair method board is that a lot of people take significantly longer than the 3-4 months that Sinclair proposes. So it's 100% possible that if I stuck with TSM longer, I would start to see some results. I'm THRILLED to hear that there are a lot of success stories with TSM popping up. I'm all for people doing whatever they need to do to get sober, healthy and happy.

I switched to baclofen because I have serious anxiety problems and I will always need to take something for that. I have been on benzos for years and was scared of becoming addicted to them. Other anti-anxiety meds just didn't work for me. I also believed that, like Dr. Ameisen, anxiety was a primary cause of my alcoholism. So I tried bac and had almost immediate results as far as a reduction in cravings and an almost complete elimination of my anxiety and insomnia. My side effects have not been great, but I've figured out ways around them.

So bottom line: baclofen worked for me, but I completely respect the reasons why someone would want to do TSM instead. If someone doesn't have anxiety issues (or can handle them reasonably well without medication) and naltrexone taken in the pursuit of extinction works for them, then TSM seems like the way to go.

--Anna

[WaitingToExhale]

Strictly Sinclair Week 2

Hi Anna - Good points as well, but you may want to read a touch more. There are patients out there that have been doing TSM for years (with Sinclair) and documentation for 3+ years on down the road. It still remains the highest success rate to date - and is documented.

Yes - we are seeing slower progress than many of us had hoped for. Looking back, the case studies of many were lighter drinker (35 units) and perhaps did not have the history many of us have. Hate that! HA! I have my calendar marked at 6 months and am at a bit over 4 months. Lots of changes to daily life - far from the cure - maybe?? Maybe closer than I think the way others have traveled!

It's been odd to watch the past few weeks, people I have watched struggle and almost give up (like you) only to claim CURED now!

Happy that Bac is working for you, and like I said - whatever works to kill this beast!

thesinclairmethod.com • View topic - Heinala Paper in PDF Format