Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

[louise]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

I do not think you are lying, in denial or a snake oil peddler. I have read several of the sinclair threads here, and a number of the threads on the sinclair site. Sorry I annoyed you by responding. I am happy for anyone who finds a way out of their addiction. You appear to have an axe to grind here.

[JohnR]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

I followed the Sinclair Method strictly for 6 months and experienced tremendous results at first however this wore off over time as I became immune to the effects of Naltrexone. I ended up drinking as much as ever so I am back to MWO looking for another alternative. The Sinclair Method does not work for everyone but I still believe it is a great tool for those who experience success.

Best wishes,
John

[Siwan]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

withdrawn

[oliveoyl]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Springerrider youre testament does count !!!!!! but I hope the Sinclair method does not breed arrogance!!!!! your response to Louise was not necessary she has been nothing but support for every one here. I as others are pleased for youre success but as John r said it doesnt work for every one. Just be mindful others find a different way your an educated man a Psych post grad as you say thanks for your posts they have been fantastic informative and helpful but you know when it comes to addiction to alcohol we are not all the same pea from the same pod
Continued success in the path you have chosen and again thank you for your posts they are extremley informative

Kind regards
Olive

[SpringerRider]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

JohnR;663023 wrote: I followed the Sinclair Method strictly for 6 months and experienced tremendous results at first however this wore off over time as I became immune to the effects of Naltrexone. I ended up drinking as much as ever so I am back to MWO looking for another alternative. The Sinclair Method does not work for everyone but I still believe it is a great tool for those who experience success.

Best wishes,
John

You say it wore off? Wore off while you were still doing Naltrexone? Where you on the Sinclair protocol? I.e. Nal + Drink = Cure

It is normal for your drinking to ebb and rise while on the Method. As you clear out the superficial triggers, deeper ones arise. They are always more brutal. Around the 13th week, I thought it was a total failure but I had promised that I would go the mile(six months).

The unlearning process will be the reverse of your "learning" process. But if it was working, it would have worked if allowed to.

Buit the worst thing one can do is return to drinking without taking Nal.

[SpringerRider]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

oliveoyl;663154 wrote: your response to Louise was not necessary she has been nothing but support for every one here. Olive

Maybe I was too blunt but it was not my intent to insult.

Adj. 1. mealy-mouthed - hesitant to state facts or opinions

I felt the reply was unbalanced with the post. Not meant to hurt feelings.

I wish you all the best with the methods you are trying. Maybe through the aggregate of efforts, the ultimate cocktail cure will surface.

[WaitingToExhale]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Interesting

JohnR;663023 wrote: I followed the Sinclair Method strictly for 6 months and experienced tremendous results at first however this wore off over time as I became immune to the effects of Naltrexone. I ended up drinking as much as ever so I am back to MWO looking for another alternative. The Sinclair Method does not work for everyone but I still believe it is a great tool for those who experience success.

Best wishes,
John

I have to say I have not been to this forum for awhile and am a bit baffled by some of the responses here.

I am quite shocked to be honest that someone is saying they followed TSM "strictly" for 6 months and felt nothing? Became immune? Are you certain you understood TSM, because immune is not possible. I REALLY don't mean that as an insult in any manner!

These posts are REALLY the first "failures" I have heard of on TSM.

It's not a "throw a drug at it and you won't feel like drinking" medication.

I would love to hear more of your story John, and others. - and I mean that in all sincerity. Because I really just don't understand what could have happened.

I'm not here to stand on my soapbox, but I sure get the impression that many may not really understand the time and commitment TSM takes to come out the other side (?).

Kudos to all that find their own way - we really are all on the same page. I just can't help but wonder how many are not really getting all the data to understand the program.

For the record, 3.5 months here on TSM and you would have to cut off my arm to take this program and it's results so far, away from me. I'm not claiming a cure yet, but my life sure is different now.

And I really find comfort in the fact that I will not be taking a drug every day for the rest of my life to keep my drinking under control. If / when I drink, I will drink with the Golden Rule. And a tablet of Nal will always be with me - even for those days / weeks / months I don't need it. Refreshing I think. =)

[JohnR]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

What I meant when I say I followed Sinclair strictly is that I took Nal one hour before the first drink without fail. I followed this religiously and it did lessen my desire to drink at first. Lena and I started Sinclair the exact same day and we started comparing results which were quite amazing at first. My results were actually a little better than Lena's and I thought "Wow, this is really it!". I stuck with TSM for 6 months until I found myself taking the Nal an hour before drinking and then drinking the exact same as before I had ever started TSM. As a daily drinker, I believe I became immune to the effects of the Nal as it never had the same effect as in the beginning.

WTH: I am surprised that these are the first failures you have heared about TSM. If you look elsewhere in the community, (not just in the Naltrexone forums), you will find plenty of others. I guess they say it's 10% who do not respond to TSM. I personally think it may be a little more than that but as I said, I still believe in it as it has been proven to help many people. Please do not think I am saying TSM does not work because I feel quite the opposite and I am very happy for those who have achieved success.

For me, I am thinking of trying Baclofen next. If I do not achieve results with that, maybe I will try Nal again and hope that I can get the same results as I did with it in the beginning. I remain committed to finding the right thing that will work for me long term. I am ready to start my new journey.

[WaitingToExhale]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Thanks John

Hey John - Thanks for the response and explanation.

I suppose I have not stumbled across other "failures" here as I have just not been that active on MWO since I had to give up Topa (great results - unbearable side effects).

I too am a daily drinker and at points had my doubts about TSM working for those of us that indulge daily. It seemed that most that were having success were the binge drinkers. I never binge, almost never get "drunk", don't fall down and never have AF days. *sigh* I just stay in a wine buzz from early in the day until I go to bed - or I guess I should say, used to.

That honeymoon stuff when you first start can almost put you off the program when you spike back up. I can't say I ever really had a honeymoon - I decreased a bit just because I think I was staying more aware of counting and the such.

I have a theory that TSM may be a longer road for those of us that are "Mediterranean Drinkers". And I'm not certain we see the quick "shut offs" that binge drinkers do. Let's face it - they drink in black and white - all or nothing. It makes sense to me that they would see that shut off experience different than us.

Sorry to hear that six months into it you didn't feel any progress. I'm only starting to see the glimpses of daylight - but life sure is different now. So subtle at times and yet it is happening. Without any "will power", I'm finding that I just don't drink as fast, stay interesting in as long, and hence am drinking less. Hitting triggers that just don't seem to be there anymore - and still finding more to extinguish. The time this all takes is downright brutal - I'll give you that!

Hope you find the answer John - hope we all do in whatever form that takes. =)

[LaBear]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Hi

WTE, funny I followed you here. I too am taking Naltrexone and hoping for the best. I am only about 9 weeks into the process and not sure about anything, really. I thought I saw some progress two weeks ago and then my numbers were up again. I plan to give this several more months to take affect. I think that counting the number of drinks does help one realize what we are doing as opposed to mindless drinking. I have only had one or two times when I could actually say that I wanted to stop drinking and am hoping for the cure that several have had. I did try Topamax and the only thing that it did for me was cause rage and nothing else. I hope I am not the 10% that does not respond to this method. Good luck to all!

[JohnR]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

I actually experienced tremendous results with Nal and for several months. I went from drinking 1-2 bottles of wine per night (always an evening drinker, never before 6m is my thing) down to 1-2 glasses! I even lost 10lbs which was not something I was trying to do but that made me feel even better. I was truly amazed and impressed but there seemed to be curve involved and over time my consumption increased to what it is now which is exactly what it was back when I first started TSM. I wish I could still experience the same benefits as I did in the beginning. I have been thinking about waiting several days for the Nal to get completely out of my system and then starting all over again to see if I might experience the benefits of TSM like I did before. I also thought about trying Topa but SO MANY people say it makes them angry, irritable, rageful, etc. and I am not really into going through that. Heck, I'd rather drink!

[lenaleed]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Wow -- I haven't been here for a while either and I'm a little surprised at what I find.

JohnR -- You and I did start the same day. We both got immediate results. You proclaimed yourself cured and went off into the sunset. I stayed around and kept learning. So, when my drinking shot up after a few days I expected it. I studied Eskapa's book and was reminded that any decreased desire in the early days, while common, is meaningless with respect to the true cure. That is the dismantling of the super-strengthened neural pathways that cause addiction, which takes several months. So even when my drinking went, for a few days, past TSM levels, I hung in there. I was gravely ill for several weeks and could not take nal (not w/ rx pain med). But I am well on my way to a cure after at total of about four months on TSM. My drinking is steadily going down, as is my craving. It is a bit of a rollercoaster, as for most of us drinking goes up and down but the trending continues down.

Sorry you didn't stick with us and really learn about TSM. But please do not misinform others that one can acquire "immunity" to naltrexone.

NALTREXONE IS NOT AN ANTI-CRAVING MED. Its effects cannot be "felt" as it works to change the brain. Many on this board have tried using nal as an anti-craving med, then decided it doesn't work. They are right. Studies bear this out. These people account for most, if not all, of the supposed "failures" of TSM on this board. But taking naltrexone is NOT the same thing as practicing TSM.

[Cinders]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

My psychiatrist told me that it is closer to 80% that Naltrexone works for, which in the addiction world is huge, really huge.

But, do not be upset if it doesn't work for someone and assume they did not follow the program. The human brain is very complex and what works for some will not work for others.

I am extremely happy to pop in here and see and hear about the successes on Nal. Anything that works to slay this beast is a good thing.

JohnR, I say give Baclofen a try. I would hope you can do this with a doctor's supervision like I am. I am very lucky to have the support of a medical doctor in my quest. However, I also believe she reads and studies this stuff as much as we do. The fact that she could converse with me about Naltrexone and TSM was amazing to me.

Baclofen was new to her but I simply pointed her to Amiesen's website. She ordered the book and she read some of the posts here. She felt it was worthy of a try and she has now started a couple other patients on it. She is very excited it is working for me and one other has let her know it is helping. (Cocaine)

I believe she uses Naltrexone on others since she seemed very up on the protocol.

Do what you feel is best for you.

And kudos to all of us for doing what we need to.

Cindi

[beatle]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

lenaleed;664827 wrote:
NALTREXONE IS NOT AN ANTI-CRAVING MED. Its effects cannot be "felt" as it works to change the brain. Many on this board have tried using nal as an anti-craving med, then decided it doesn't work. They are right. Studies bear this out. These people account for most, if not all, of the supposed "failures" of TSM on this board. But taking naltrexone is NOT the same thing as practicing TSM.

Cindi, I don't know what that 80% figure refers to in regards to Naltrexone. I have certainly never come across that figure in my research on Naltrexone EXCEPT regarding the long-term use of Naltrexone according to the Sinclair Method protocol. As I said in another post, I believe TSM is a breakthrough in alcohol addiction treatment and studies so far bear out this fact. However, it is my understanding, as lenaleed says, that short-term use of Naltrexone has a negligible effect (and certainly MY experience bears this out).

I believe Dr. Ameisen mentions this in his book (that studies show Naltrexone and Campral to have negligible effects).

[beatle]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Cinders;664986 wrote:
Do what you feel is best for you.

And kudos to all of us for doing what we need to.

Cindi

True words of wisdom... whatever works!