Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

[louise]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

It seems that John has stated several times that he followed TSM for six whole months and always took the naltrexone an hour before drinking, yet is repeatedly being told he must not have done it right or did not do it long enough or it is because he didn't stay around and learn. Learn what? How much longer than 6 months is he supposed to give it? Since even Sinclair says it may not work for 100% of the people, why is one person saying that after 6 months they are giving up and feel it isn't working for them so upsetting to people? Especially since he said he thought it was a valuable approach - he wasn't bad mouthing it. I'm really not understanding this reaction.

[happy4once]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Hi Louise - I think people just get excited about finding something that is helping them and it's hard to think that someone is doing everything right when it's not helping them. I think it's more an over abundance of hope and the desire to help more than anything else. (Lena was likely trying to make sure John did not give up without making sure he was doing everything correctly, that's all...not trying to berate him. She has extremely good intentions in all of her posts because she believes in this method and has studied it very thoroughly.)

This is the only incident where we've heard that the medication simply wore off, which is a little different than saying it didn't work. It did work. Then it didn't work. Very odd - I don't know what happened, but I also know that not many of us are at the 6 month mark on TSM, and that John repeated several times that he was following the protocol. I hope it's an isolated incident...I also wish we could get John to talk to Dr. Roy so he could learn from this experience (that's my hope factor kicking in, I guess - I don't want this to stop working for me in a few months ). John - very sorry it stopped working, that must have been rough.

I wanted to also add to beatle's comment as misunderstandings so easily happen in this form of communication: short-term use of Nal when you are not following TSM, has negligable effects. In other words, if you take Nal and don't drink in order to reduce your cravings, it's not likely to help long term. If you follow TSM and drink an hour prior to drinking, the long term results are in a very high range (85% rate according to the studies...likely a bit less than that in real life, and looks like we also need to account for some situations that are not the norm, like John's case...but overall, very high rates).

I don't think any medication works 100% and we all need to do what helps us get through this. No one here has very long term success with either Baclofen or Nal (years worth, not just months) so I would hope we could stay open and learn about both medications. Part of that learning will likely be questioning what the person is doing if it didn't work as expected. I think that's a logical path in learning. However, once someone has explained, we need to respect and accept that answer...even if it's difficult to hear.

[JohnR]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Lena - Hello, I hope all is well with you. Based on your post, I think should clarify a few things. First, I never "went off into the sunset". I, like you stayed around and learned and absorbed all the knowledge that I could from the experience and knowledge of others (including you) as I too understood that TSM was more than just taking Nal. My results were consistent for a long time and I have not really had anything major to post until now however I have always stayed in touch with some of the great friends that I have made here at MWO. I hope you understand that I am merely posting my experiences which may differ from yours or others however I do not feel they should be discounted merely because they are not parallel to yours and/or not pleasing to hear. I should also reiterate that I have followed TSM since day one without fail.

Beatle- I agree with you that TSM is a huge breakthrough (as I say in almost every one of my posts). What an amazing tool that has the potential to help so many.

Cinders- You are always one of the most supportive voices on this board. Thank you always for that! Much appreciated and best of luck and continued success with your Baclofen path. You seem to really be getting some great results from it.

Louise- Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth.

[JohnR]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

H4O-Thanks for your empathetic words. It HAS been rough, not to mention disappointing. I have taken TSM very seriously, following it to a T. Right now I am trying to determine my next course of action but as always, I remain committed and determined. As some of us were saying in the beginning of the year, we are guinea pigs of sorts because just as you said: there aren’t any long-term documented results out there. You know how when you see a TV commercial for a new pharmaceutical, they always say “Side effects include…” followed by a whole host of crazy things? That is because in the human trials, the individual results were so varied because physiologically we are not all the same. So, we do need to be open and accept that results can and absolutely will vary, whether we are talking about Naltrexone or any other drug as our bodies respond differently to what is introduced...and whether or not we identifiy with the results. By the way, I also agree that Lena always has good intentions.

Three points for the record:
*Since January 13, 2009, I have not once had a drink without taking 50mg of Naltrexone one hour prior. Likewise, I have not taken Naltrexone without drinking one hour after.
*As a daily drinker, I have taken Naltrexone and consumed alcohol (one hour after) every single day since January 13, 2009.
*I drink red wine exclusively.

[WaitingToExhale]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

John - Simply because I am curious ...

Are there any other medications you are / were taking besides the Nal?

Am I correct in reading that you used to drink approximately 1-2 bottles of wine per night which would be about 35-70 US units per week?

The reason I'm asking the above questions is because we often look for correlation between slow (or no) recovery and "outside of the box" reasoning for it.

There as been a great detail of conversation regarding the use of Benzos while practicing TSM, although we are seeing some pretty dramatic successes on persons still using benzos.

And it's been brought up that study subjects were closer to being approximately 35 unit per week drinkers as well as subjects being eliminated for numerous other factor. Just curious if any of these may play into your situation.

I also hope you contact Dr. E as I would love to hear his reaction to your situation.

I am personally convinced that for long term drinkers, six months may very well not be enough time to ride it all the way out. I hope you find your path John.

[JohnR]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Hi WTE – It may or may not be a factor but I do take two other pharmaceuticals: one for high blood pressure and another for acid reflux (alcohol is not so great for the reflux!) Ok, not to get off topic too much but in my previous post I wanted to raise the importance of physiology since my experiences with Hypertension and GERD have also been “not normal”. I am a relatively young and healthy male, 6’, 165lbs. with a family history of heavy drinking yet NO family history of high blood pressure or acid reflux. I am a vegetarian, workout and consume an extremely healthy diet. I do understand that heavy alcohol consumption contributes to both hypertension as well as acid reflux which is why I decided to look for some “assistance” with the drinking and that’s when I found MWO and TSM. I think it is interesting that none of my blood-related family members suffer from the same medical conditions that I do and yet they drink pretty much just like me. To this day they are in complete disbelief about it but unfortunately, this does not change the reality of things. I wish it did.

I do not take any other medications. I did get Baclofen at the same time as Naltrexone as a backup but I have not taken it. And yes, my pattern is as a 1-2 bottles of red wine per day, (always at night).

[LaBear]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

John R

Thanks so much for your last post to WTE. I was wondering about your variables also.
It does seem that you may just be one of the 10% that it is not working for. But....you did say that it worked at first so I too wish you would contact Dr. Eskapa to see what he has to say. You would have nothing to loose since you sound like you are still trying to find the right answer for you. Good luck!

[lenaleed]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

John, Sorry!! My wisecracking way gets me in trouble from time to time -- does not translate well in written comments on MB's. I often thought of you because we did not see you around the TSM threads and I wondered about you. I thought you did go off on your own thinking the work was over. I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion.

We have a only couple over on the TSM board that are several months in without results. What a shame you went through all that yourself without a positive result.

If you want to contact Dr. Eskapa, perhaps he could figure out what might be the problem. We might all learn something from it. You are the first I've heard who got results (apart from the first few days -- the "honeymoon period") then went back up.

If TSM truly won't work, there are alternatives but we will certainly support you and would love to have you join us if you want to continue to give it a go. I had to quit for awhile myself due to requiring pain meds but seem to be picking up where I left off. So it's not like you would be starting all over.

All the best, Lena

[bernard]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Regarding baclofen and reflux, a study (Gut 2002;50:19?24) suggests baclofen might help. The mechanism, reducing the frequency of esophageal sphincter relaxations and boosting its base pressure, is paradoxical considering baclofen's relaxation effect. Their protocol, a 40 mg bolus 90 minutes before a meal and none otherwise, is quite different from what is used for alcoholism treatment. So it would be interesting to see the results, JohnR, if you were to try baclofen after (or if) Naltrexone fails.

[JohnR]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Hi Lena,
I have been traveling but just wanted to say hello. I did experience tremendous results with TSM for quite a long time so I experienced first hand what an amazing and effective tool it can be. I became very enthusiastic about it...perhaps too much even. I still very much believe in it and hope that I can start all over and try it again. Right now I am trying to figure out how to approach it from here.

I hope all is well. You really seem to be doing great!

Bernard - Thanks for the information. How interesting. I would never have thought that GERD could benefit from Baclofen! I have not started taking it but if I do, it will be interesting to see the effects, if any on the reflux. So much to learn!

[startingover]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Bump for jafa

[SpringerRider]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Popped in to see what trouble I may have caused. Just a quick comment. Been on the Sinclair method since Jan 13th. Still follow it to the letter. It has worked well for me but, as I said on TSM, where we land may not be exactly the same place as a "non-alcoholic", even though we call ourselves cured.

Here is my theory, for what it is worth. I was an abusive drinker before I acquired the addiction to alcohol. Drinking did all these next little tricks for me when I was in high-school. I would drink and feel more confident, my zits would dissappear, led me to believe I was going to get laid (though I never did), made me feel tough, etc., etc. I was not yet addicted but had a strong psychological desire to embide because of all the magic drinking performed. Over time, I gave up on the magic but by then I was addicted.

Now take that process in reverse. I have removed the addiction but what is left is an abusive drinker. By that I mean, I never learned to drink responsibly and doing so is a learned process. I no longer have a craving to drink but I do not have much skill it, either. Why should I? Never tried. If I drink and cross a certain point, say 4 drinks or so, I will still get stupid and drink too much.

But that is a phenomenom with non-alcoholics. They always knew this and therefore "knew their limit". What a concept!

The point I am trying to make is that Naltrexone, used correctly will break the addiction cycle but it will not give you the life skill that your non-alcoholic counter-parts may experience. Therefore, I recommend that the first chance you get to get off the booze-train - jump. After that, use alcohol very sparingly. Remember, it almost killed you. Still might.

_sr

[louise]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

SpringerRider;700418 wrote: I no longer have a craving to drink but I do no have much skill it, either. Why should I? Never tried. If I drink and cross a certain point, say 4 drinks or so, I will still get stupid and drink too much.

But that is a phenomenom with non-alcoholics. They always knew this and therefore "knew their limit". What a concept!

The point I am trying to make is that Naltrexone, used correctly will break the addiction cycle but it will not give you the life skill that your non-alcoholic counter-parts may experience. Therefore, I recommend that the first chance you get to get off the booze-train - jump. After that, use alcohol very sparingly. Remember, it almost killed you. Still might.
sr

I'm sure you weren't trying to be funny but this made me smile! Definitely words of wisdom for anyone thinking they will be able to drink "normally".

[Q_]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

Evie.Lou;534225 wrote: I bought the book...Read half way thru...then put it in the trash...least anyone else would get hold of the copy, I bought. Sounded like shallow uninformed, ignorant advise...and kind of scary, to think that it is on book shelves, everywhere??? BEST SELLER (I hope not).
Some of what he said made my skin crawl ...Sorta reminds me of corner MADAM Zelda's doing "spiritual counseling' ...not a CLUE...NOT A CLUE !!!!

I am living proof that this statement is 100% incorrect. In February of this year, I was drinking 60-80 units of alcohol per week. My drinking was very much out of control and getting worse.

I found Eskapa's book, and this forum, then began practicing The Sinclair Method.

Today, I am completely cured of my addiction to alcohol. Yes, cured. I am not abstinent nor am I white knuckling to prevent some kind of relapse. The craving for alcohol is simply gone.

Evie.Lou, it is a pitty you didn't finish that book. You were literally holding the Cure for Alcoholism in your hands.

Q

[SpringerRider]

Eskapa's Book, The Cure for Alcoholism

I am becoming active in this forum again. I have just read through every thread in this forum and am facinated by the amount of wisdom here. Some of the best posts are my own For that reason, I am bumping it to the top and hope that you can all enjoy it as I had.

By the way, I am a success story of the Sinclair Method. Read this and some other threads to understand how and why. There is a way out of this maddness. To me, it has been as if I have been suffering with broken bone that never healed correctly. Sinclair came along and rebroke it, set it and it and it has now healed properly. I am a full person now. I am cured.