Justin's Campral Notes

[JS81]

Justin's Campral Notes

Tulipe - How are you? I'm not doing so well, I'm afraid. I've had a very stressful couple of days. I really feel like I want to drink again, yet I just can't seem to bring myself to do it (thankfully). It's been almost 33 days sober and I'm really doing my best to hold on but I fear that one more stressor will push me over the edge. I had a lot of trouble sleeping last night. I took some Clonazepam that I had on hand from an old prescription. I think it helped me relax and get to sleep, but today I realize that I'm basically substituting something worse for the alcohol and that isn't good.

If I may ask, Tulipe, is your family supportive of your efforts to stop drinking? My wife is supportive to a point. There are some days I find myself wishing that I didn't tell her. I feel as though she has had contempt for me since I came clean about everything. She was upset about all the lying. She wanted to know if I was hiding other things from her - which I wasn't, but I can see where she is coming from by asking. When I told her about the Campral, her response was one of "you can just take these pills and you'll be okay, right?" The ironic thing is that my wife's mother is an alcoholic and has been through a 30 day rehab program (which failed) so I think that she should know by now the severity of the situation and I can't fathom why she would be naive enough to think that I can just take some pills and this problem will magically correct itself. My wife has also refused to be intimate with me since I told her, and that really hurts to say the least.

I know all too well what you mean about "planning" your next drink. I used to do this frequently. When I relapsed on the 20th, I wouldn't say it was so much a "plan" I had devised, but was more situational being that I was alone and had no one to keep me in check. My wife is leaving town again for a few days in about two weeks. I am contemplating asking her not to go, but I don't think that would go over too well. I just don't trust myself to be alone again.

Interesting that the Campral made you get drunk faster. I can't recall if this was the case with me or not. It may have been, but I don't remember. There were times in the past (before Campral) that I would down drinks quickly so I could get high faster in a shorter amount of time.

Do you have any followups with your doctor scheduled? If so, do you plan to mention your slip-ups? Also, are you doing anything to supplement the Campral? Like going to AA or support groups or counseling? I think I need to supplement the Campral somehow or I'm going to hit the bottle again. There really isn't a whole lot keeping me from doing it at this point, to be honest.

BTW, what was your drink of choice? Wine? My poison was rum and Coke. Usually Captain Morgan or Admiral Nelson. I also liked Vodka Martinis with Kettle One, though that got expensive after awhile and I mostly drank them at bars because I didn't know how to make them at home.

justinc - Welcome aboard. Yeah, I think it takes a few days for the Campral to start working. It's funny because you don't really "feel" it working per say, you just don't think about drinking as often. At least that is how it seemed to work with me. I can remember feeling tired around the time I started too. In my case, I feel that it was withdrawal. I had also had a couple drinks shortly after I started, so there was a period where I felt hungover and that included being tired. Although it might have been a Campral side effect too. Hard to say. Please feel free to let us know how you're progressing with it. It's an interesting drug.

[Tulipe]

Justin's Campral Notes

Hi Justin and Justinc,
Justin you hang on there. You have come so far. Maybe if you can just make it through these few days it will get easier. Do you think you may be encountering some PAWS?
I know just what you mean about being alone. It's the easiest time to let that little voice in and let go of it all. I had most of my slips when DH was away a few weeks ago. What is taking your wife out of town? Maybe, I don't know but maybe, she would know how hard you are trying and how important this and she are to you if you talk to her about your concerns about being alone. I find with DH that whenever he makes himself vulnerable by telling me about a worry of his, in a normal way not a blow-up, I just melt and want to do everything I can to help him. Wish this happened more often. I also think that more often than not when I tell him about something I'm worried about in a normal way, not a passive aggressive or pouty way, he is more likely to take it well than if it's eating away at me and comes out in a bad way.
HOWEVER I hear from you that there are other tensions with her too. I can relate to that also. At first when I told DH I was going AF, I said just don't ask me any questions, and didn't want to talk about anything with him. The more I say, the more he loses respect for me, and he can't understand anyway to why should I try to explain? He can't hear my way of thinking - all that happens is that he gets the crud scared out of him - that I'm in deep doodoo, that I'm in physical trouble, that I must not love him if I do this, that it's only going to get worse, that I'll never stop, that he's stuck with a drunk. I'm not an AA person but in AA I heard from Cacky that if you want to take a drink, call someone from AA not your spouse. I think the same goes for talking about addiction. It just scares them into reacting emotionally, which can cause a fight which can be a trigger - dot dot dot you know where that can lead.
Is DH supportive? Generally, yes, although the first week before he saw I was serious about stopping he really laid into me and said some terrible things. Later he said he thought he'd been too hard on me. My real fear now is, though, that now I am sober I sort of don't like him that much. I love him, and there are many many wonderful and admirable things about him, but we don't talk to each other that well. He says I'm too sensitive. I say he's too critical. You get the idea. But I am having these feelings of what a jerk! when he says things I think are a put-down. When drinking I ignored them, but now I just think he doesn't value me much.
Spouses, huh.
Sorry about your wife eschewing intimacy. That's a real downer. Can you talk about it with her? Do you get mad when she says no? Were you regularly intimate before? I can see how she feels betrayed, and may need time to deal with your history of drinking, but maybe this is somehow mixed up with growing up with an AL mother. How's that for a wild stab? Withholding anything is a way of taking power back - children do it all the time. It's a way of combatting the feeling of being out of control, of the world being out of balance, about feeling powerless. Talking about it would probably be best. Other ideas - you could offer to give her a shoulder massage to relax her and see where that goes. You could have an AF Date Night - dinner and a movie - and maybe after a nice night out you both will have a nice morning
On my doctor - I had an appt yesterday and showed him a chart of how many Campral I take each day and how many drinks I have each day. My AF score was 76%. I went for weeks at a time with no AL, and aside from when I was alone the times I drank was at an event or when out with friends. He said that if I can go easily for weeks at a time without a drink, drink one day, then go for 5 days without another one, I'm not an alcoholic. He said I HAD an alcohol dependency, and addiction, which is now broken, so as long as I mod and keep drinking to social situations i.e. not alone he thinks I am ok. Now we all know that I'm on a slippery slope here. I still have a psychological addiction, even if I don't drink. I think I am an alcoholic but I am fighting it. I don't think it's ok for me to drink. I would like to abstain completely because I can't stop at one. However, I am glad that I showed him my full disclosure record because if I hadn't I think he wouldn't have believed me. He said he thought my AL addiction is brought on my boredom and low self-esteem.
Only supplement I have is MWO. I've told 2 of my friends that I've stopped drinking. They are both alcoholics themselves, in my opinion. Neither of them asked me about it. They just immediately changed the subject. I did have business lunch recently with a nice German man who told me he's given up drinking years ago. I instantly liked him. I think that over time I will change my choice of friends from the drinking moms to the more productive ones. Maybe with the next move in a year. Life of an expat, you know, every 3 years or so we'll be moving on.
Justinc - I felt tired my first week too. It was a good tired though. I enjoyed it. I took naps in the afternoon, and loved it. First restful sleep in a long time. I hope you are feeling good today.
That's all for now.

[justinc]

Justin's Campral Notes

Hi Tulipe, Justin,

I am glad I found this thread, its nice to be able to chat with some people who are taking Campral. I have never taken any perscription medications, so this is big for me. Anyway, feel pretty good today, just been having vidid dreams at night. I had a dream last night I was attacked by a Cougar, and I am talking about the cat kind. I rolled into a ball while it gnaw'd on me for 10 minutes. It was crazy.

Tulipe- that is interesting your doc said you can moderate, I would like to be able to drink socially occasionally. I wonder if it is possible with Campral.

[Tulipe]

Justin's Campral Notes

I don't know, Justin. In my heart I don't think it's right. But we'll see. For today I am AF and happy about it.
Hope you bit that cougar back.

[justinc]

Justin's Campral Notes

Tulipe- I could see it working for a while, but I would be worried I would be right back where I am now in 6 months. probably not worth the risk. Do you remember any weird dreams when you first took Campral? Maybe its just because I am starting to get good sleep, instead of drunk or hungover sleep.

[Tulipe]

Justin's Campral Notes

I didn't have weirder dreams than I normally do, but I have seen lots of other people write about weird dreams during WD and during PAWS. I think it's normal. The nervous system is just getting back to normal, and that may create some unusual little quirks.

[Tulipe]

Justin's Campral Notes

Oh Jus on slipping back - I have the same fear. However, the greater fear is losing respect from my husband, my kids, myself, and losing it all but spinning out of control. I hope the carrot of feeling good and being healthy over time becomes stronger than the stick, in any case. Time will tell.

[JS81]

Justin's Campral Notes

Tulipe - How's it going? I am feeling a little bit better today. Each day is a battle with this addiction. I was able to convince my wife that we need to go on a little vacation this weekend. We are going to Fort Myers on the west coast of Florida to spend some time by the beach. Hopefully I'll come back with a tan. I made this decision because I realized that I need to step back and take some time away from work, the internet, and the day to day monotony. I hope that this will be a good opportunity for my wife and I to have a dialog about some of our problems, and perhaps get back some of the intimacy that has been lacking for some time now.

I think one of our ongoing problems is communication. Both my parents have a background in psychiatry, so when I was growing up, I was always encouraged to talk about how I felt. My wife's upbringing was completely opposite. Feelings and emotions were bottled up and not discussed, especially stressful topics. It has taken me years to get her to open up more and discuss her feelings with me. However, there are times that I think she still wants to suppress how she feels and my alcoholism is an issue she just doesn't want to discuss. When I "came clean" to her about my drinking, I remember asking her if she had any questions for me. She did not. Yet, I was hoping she would because I want this to be a topic that we can discuss freely. I feel our discussing it is beneficial to my recovery. I'm not saying that it needs to be talked about 24/7, but she basically acts like it doesn't exist, and I don't feel that is healthy or beneficial.

As for the moderation question, I have considered it many times in the past. I have concluded that it absolutely will not work for me. That being said, I do believe that it could work for some people, and that's great. I just feel that I am not in that group. I know that if I have a drink, I'm going to want another and another and so on. That's how my brain works. Therefore, I find it far easier to abstain from alcohol altogether. I think any kind of moderation on my part would be playing with fire, and it just isn't worth it to me. Moreover, the more sober days I rack up, the more my mindset is changing to one of "I don't want this shit in my body anymore". Alcohol has had a negative impact on so many aspects of my life including my physical and mental health, my relationships with others, my education, my success and my outlook on life. Yet the more I ponder, the more difficult I find it to name even one positive thing that alcohol has done for me. I suppose I could say that it has inflated my self esteem and confidence greatly, but this affect is only temporary, and at what expense?

I must say I was surprised to read what your doctor said, Tulipe. I guess by following that line of logic, I must not be an alcoholic since I have not had a drink in 34 days. I'm sorry, but I disagree. I have grappled with the "do I have a problem" question many, many times over the years. I think the alcohol addicted part of my brain likes to say "no, you don't have a problem" but I just can't trust that logic. Is there some kind of a litmus test to answer such a question? I don't know of one, but I feel that my track record speaks for itself. I posted this list in another thread but I will post it here too since I feel that it is related to the discussion. Some of the things I have experienced over the last seven years or so:

- numerous, countless "self promises" to give up. All failed.
- keeping a log of my progress to reinforce the self promises. Failed.
- numerous blackouts.
- numerous instances of "drunk dialing" then not recalling the conversation the next day.
- lost or hurt relationships because of drinking
- nights I drove home but do not recall doing so (bad, I know)
- two attempts to stop drinking with physician's assistance.
- one failed attempt with prescription medication Campral.
- being conned out of money by people who befriended me at a bar when I was drunk.
- lying to loved ones about drinking.
- feeling a need to hide the fact that I was drinking. Including use of mouthwash, changing clothes, clandestine trips to the liquor store, etc.
- clandestine drinking on the job.

It's hard for me to look at that and say with a straight face that I do not have a problem. I know in my heart that I'm an alcoholic. I hate that label and all the nasty connotations it brings, but whatever. I guess if I stay sober I can say I'm a "recovering alcoholic". That has a nicer ring to it, don't you think?

For now, I think the best course of action is to just take this thing one day at a time. Do I worry that I might one day screw up and drink again? Of course, but I can't live every day in fear with that hanging over my head. If it happens, it happens and I'll try not to drink the next time.

Sorry if this all seems disjointed, I'm just thinking aloud. Perhaps when I'm facing temptation again I can come back and read this to get me through.

Have a good weekend,
Justin

[Tulipe]

Justin's Campral Notes

hey Jus and Jus, I guess,
Still going on Campral, if you look at my drink tracker I am not doing well but I want to do better. I don't know about bac but I don't want that solution at the moment. More later.

[justinc]

Justin's Campral Notes

Hi Tulipe, Justin

This may seem strange, but I decided to do a little drink test last weekend. I wanted to see how alcohol affected me while on Camrpal. I didn't want to slip up sometime and not have any idea how I my body would react with the Camp/Alc mixture. So I had 5 beers on Sat and 4 on Sunday. I was able to stop pretty easily, the effects of the alcohol where still there, but I didn't feel the urge or the voice in my head telling me to have more. For me it didn't seem take away any of the effects of the alcohol, it was a more sutle. It was like I didn't have to fight myself to stop. I have only been on this a week, but I am starting to think I can possibly mod on this. Usually after 4-5 beers I am ready to go all in and there is no turning back. This time I was like I could have another or not, didn't really seem to matter so I decide to stop. I also have stopped planning activities to get around alcohol like I normally do. I went to a bbq on Sunday and normally I would have been the first person in the car ready to go, hurry up there is alcohol waiting!!. This time I actually didn't care whene we got there. I spaced out the beers over the afternoon and actually drank slowly. The only urge to continue was more out of habit than anything else. My wife was amazed, as I always would have been plastered. I have a camping trip coming up this weekend with some college buddies that will be a real test for me.

Tulipe- I am not sure about Bac either. it seems very popular, but I am not sure I could get my doc to perscribe it. He said no way to Topomax- too many side effects, I asked about Vivitorl and he told me "you don't want to be the guinnie pig on a new drug." I had the printout for Campral he looked it over and agreed to let me try. He had heard of it, and thought it was a good choice based on the fact that I was a binge drinker and trying to stop. So he wrote me a perscription for Campral with two refills. I was also worried my insurance would not cover it, but it did cover a fair amount of it. I think it was $40 for 180 pills. So far so good.

Anyway, hope you guys are doing okay.

[Tulipe]

Justin's Campral Notes

Hi guys,
Hope your weekend went well, Justin. PM if you wish - I look forward to hearing about it and hope all was well. I like your determination.
I'm sort of having a hard time here. But I'll write more later.
Summer blues,

[JS81]

Justin's Campral Notes

Hey Tulipe,

I'm sorry to hear that you have been stumbling. I know the feeling all too well. Maybe we can talk about it. We had a nice weekend. I'll have to send you a PM. I'm still sober. Didn't get to take the Campral today at lunch though, whoopee. Hang in there.

[Tulipe]

Justin's Campral Notes

Hi there,

Thanks for the support. Glad to hear that we are making progress, at least I think we are, some of us more than others. I believe I'm making progress even if I have a really bad slip on Tuesday. I am back now. I find that if I take all 6 tabs early, rather than wait, I don't get the cravings. That is, if I take 2 at 8, 2 at noon, 2 at 6 I am ok. If I take 2 at 11, by 4:00 I am likely thinking about the bottle. Maybe lesson learned? On day 3 AF, but crying a lot. Hubby thinks I'm a nutcase. I must be so hard to live with.
Have a great Friday, stay strong for the weekend!

[JS81]

Justin's Campral Notes

Tulipe - sorry to hear you've been crying. It is very hard, I know. There are some days for me that I just want to throw my hands up and say "fuck it" and hit the bottle again. But we all slip up now and again. It's a tough fight and probably one of the hardest things I have ever faced. The fact that you are sober now and adjusting your meds so they work better for you is beneficial. There is definitely a learning curve with this, so try not to beat yourself up too much over this.

I sent a reply to your PM. If you ever want to talk, you know where to find me.

[RedThread12]

Justin's Campral Notes

Hi Campralites: I've been taking Campral for a little over a month. My Dr. gave it to me while I was still foggy drunk from a month-long relapse and I started taking it immediately. It works well for me to get rid of the cravings, but it's a little bit of an adventure to get used to the fatigue and general don't give a sh**, kind of depressive state I'm in. Anyone else feel like this? I tried a little moderating and had a short-lived hope that maybe I could. Wrong. For a little while I could have a glass or two of wine and not want more nor crave more in the morning. Then I did that two nights in a row and the next day I drank a whole bottle of red wine - and immediately threw it up. Bummer. I talked to a Dr. friend who works in a psych ward - his opinion of Campral is that it diminishes the pleasure of alcohol - and everything else. I don't even eat chocolate these days, and I'm beginning to understand how much of my behavior has been motivated by finding ways to get pleasurable sensations. So now I just do what I do in order get it done. No sensations of satisfaction or pleasure. Kinda' zen, huh?
Anyway, just to share my experience with campral. I'm going back to meetings in order to establish a sobriety that feels like I can sustain it without the meds. They're a godsend, and a curse, for me. I keep asking my friends if I'm acting like me, because I don't feel like me! But onward . . . and, oh yeah, Tulipe, the crying factor is high for me, too. I try to focus on things that make me cry for appreciation or for things I observe in the world that I find so sad, instead of just sorry for me. OMG, Michael Jackson's funeral was an awesome opportunity to cry for a whole day! Felt great! Hope you're doing well and finding your way out . . . it's all part of the journey, sucky as it seems on some days.