Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

[tiptronic_ct]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

If anyone reading this is in email or telephonic contact with cowgal / Mary-Anne or someone close to her, please have a look at this thread posted by Rubes in General Discussion:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f9/prayers-39672.html

She is an active participant elsewhere on MWO as well, and any news you might have would be appreciated by others.

[beatle]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

tiptronic_ct;793357 wrote: If anyone reading this is in email or telephonic contact with cowgal / Mary-Anne or someone close to her, please have a look at this thread posted by Rubes in General Discussion:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f9/prayers-39672.html

She is an active participant elsewhere on MWO as well, and any news you might have would be appreciated by others.

I just saw this now. I sent an e-mail to her immediately. Any news since that post?

[tiptronic_ct]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

beatle;793513 wrote: I just saw this now. I sent an e-mail to her immediately. Any news since that post?

Rubywillow has posted an update in General. It doesn't look good.

[Time4Change1]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

aw cowgirl has been so sweet. im in shock. did she attempt suicide? Im confused. ill pray for cowgirl.
=(

[brightlite]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I am so relieved that Cowgal is on more stable terms.

I also want to send a shout out to Larisa! Haven't heard from you in awhile Lar! Come back and talk to us.

[JimBrook]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Thanks Tiptronic

Thanks NC for your questions and Tiptronic for your response. These were my questions exactly. I am taking 180MG for the first time. I am increasing 10MG every three days. I am currently drinking 2X per week about 3 maybe 4 drinks per session. I do not have cravings, but still have obessesional thought but no greater that when I was sober 3 years. I am losing my taste for drinking. Did they change the formula for scotch? I use to love it but no it tastes like gasoline. Last night I started my session and stopped after one.
I do have some questions
1. Does anyone take additional drugs. My MD is pushing Campral at 6 per day and Naltrexone when I drink. Does anyone have any input if these drugs help or that the baclofen is all they needed?;
2. Tiptronic, you mentioned that you take extra Pacifen as it is weaker than standard Baclofen. I currently take 100MG of prescribed Baclofen and supplement the additional 80 with Pacifen. What would you up the Pacifen to equal the 180MG of Baclofen. For example if I take 100 Baclofen what would you increase the Pacifen to so that it equals 180MG effectiveness of Baclofen;
3. Does anyone advocate taking extra Baclofen on nights that you drink
Thanks
JimBrook

[Greg]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I did not hear everything about MA straight away due to not being as active here as many others. My apologies for not keeping more up to date. I hope all is well for you now Cowgal.

JimBrook, I may be able to answer your first question. I took Campral in the past while sober and it did help with emotional stability and alcohol cravings, but unfortunately it didn't work for me if I took it while drinking. I have since read elsewhere that it only works when a person is sober. I think it could be a great addition to baclofen since it is supposed to normalise GABA and glutamate/NMDA receptors, which alcohol throws out of balance. I don't think it interacts with many drugs and it is eliminated by the kidneys not the liver (baclofen is also largely eliminated by the kidneys so unsure if that could be an issue). Some members here are already taking naltrexone aswell as baclofen, but they are taking it according to the Sinclair Method rather than just taking it as an anti-craving drug. It would seem that naltrexone would be the better option while you are still drinking, since the Sinclair Method involves taking the naltrexone an hour before drinking. If you stopped drinking then the Campral could be a good option for you. Baclofen works in either case.

I hope this is of some help.

[tiptronic_ct]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

JimBrook;813355 wrote:
1. Does anyone take additional drugs. My MD is pushing Campral at 6 per day and Naltrexone when I drink. Does anyone have any input if these drugs help or that the baclofen is all they needed?;
2. Tiptronic, you mentioned that you take extra Pacifen as it is weaker than standard Baclofen. I currently take 100MG of prescribed Baclofen and supplement the additional 80 with Pacifen. What would you up the Pacifen to equal the 180MG of Baclofen. For example if I take 100 Baclofen what would you increase the Pacifen to so that it equals 180MG effectiveness of Baclofen;
3. Does anyone advocate taking extra Baclofen on nights that you drink
Thanks
JimBrook

Hey, Jim

In response to your questions:

1. I don't take any additional drugs to alleviate alcohol cravings. But ever since bringing a psychiatrist on board (since October '09), I am on anti-depressants. Alcohol addiction (for me) is just part of a much bigger picture. I am also seeing a psychologist. Both know about, and support my use of baclofen.
2. In my experience, you need to settle on a single brand of baclofen. My comparison had been between "Bacmax" from 4RX and "Pacifen" from Inhouse. Baclofen is sold as different generic versions of the original med, marketed as Lioresal. Not all versions of baclofen affect you equally (for reasons I am not qualified to speculate on). Choosing one and sticking to it allows you to manage your dosages with predictable results. Even though my impression was that I got better results from Bacmax, I settled on Pacifen because of good service and reliable delivery times from Inhouse. I also tried a version called "Liofen" for a while, but I could only get it in 25mg tabs, which made it inconvenient to manage my down-titration (it is easier to step down in 5 - 10mg increments). Which version of baclofen have you been prescribed? There are a number of them out there (I'll bump some threads about it for you when I have a chance). In determining how much of any particular version I needed to take, I simply allowed myself to be led by how I reacted to it. There is no formula to calculate dosages based on trade name - they all differ slightly from one another, but there seems to be consistency within versions. If I were you, I'd see if I could obtain the same version that has been prescribed by your doc.
3. You seem to be referring to taking baclofen in p.r.n. doses (again, I'll bump some threads or PM you with more detailed info when I get the chance). P.r.n. simply means "as needed." I rely heavily on that principle. Whenever I know I am going into a difficult drinking situation, or experiencing particular drinking triggers, I take an extra 10 / 20 / 30mg of baclofen to assist me. Please excuse the lame metaphor, but "as needed" doses are akin to using baclofen as a conductor's baton as opposed to a sledgehammer. The sledgehammer approach works whilst you're titrating up to the point of indifference. In finding the correct maintenance dose, you need to manage it more minutely.

3. (take 2). Have just re-read your question and there could be an additional answer. From what I went through, you can expect to still drink whilst you're titrating up, although it seems to be best to be AF. The whole point of baclofen is that you're steadily working towards the point of indifference (the "switch"). If you're still drinking, you simply haven't reached it yet. Keep on going up at the pace you feel comfortable with. If you happen to have a mix of AF & drinking days, just keep your titration schedule steady. As always, just an opinion, but I'd like to repeat my recommendation of using "as needed" doses only after you've hit your switch.

Hope that helps

[willw_oz]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

This is just a quick post and just a but-in at the end of a very long thread, which I've been reading with some I have to say a huge amount of horror.

Firstly I need to say that I have no medical training and so you should take this opinion as exactly that its simply my opinion based on my own experience of prescribing my own dose of baclofen while on the RPA trial back in 2006/07.

As with any medication dosing and effects should be closely monitored by a trained doctor (or at least a GP). For those who don't know the test was a double-blind 12 week test where participants were either given placebo or 10, 20 or 30mg to use and progress was monitored, I can't post links but if you google baclofen RPA you can get more information.

Although at first I did notice a reduction on cravings like a lot of people have said they did not vanish completely and so without medical consultation I decided to increase the amount I was taking, with the eventual effect of an overdose which landed me back in RPA and comatose for 2 days. As I have no idea what level I was taking I can't say exactly how much lead to the overdose except to say that I was taking 2 tablets tables twice a day, which I tripled.

Once again, I'm not saying take or or don't take it or that it won't or will work for you. But please don't try and find your "right" level by yourself. This can be a potentially lethal medication so please please be careful and well informed.

I should also add that since it is a muscle relaxant and it is possible to overdose on this medication it should not be seen "replacement" for alcohol or a way overcoming situations where you would normally drink. Which was partially the reason I increased my dosage.

And finally, if any one is interested. After several more years of trying other mixes of anti craving, I am actually 9 months sober the old fashion way. If you'd like to know how please PM me.

[JimBrook]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Yet more questions

Hello Everyone,
I have read through all of this thread, so as not to repeat my questions but still have some for the group. I am stuck at 180, but the real reason is that I have switched over from Pacifen to the much stronger Liofen. The somnolence is erratic and severe at times.
1. Tiptronic, I noticed at one time you would load the most of your dose in the evening and then in another post you were at 80/80/80. What worked best for you? I tried loading at night thinking it would make me sleep better, but I still can only sleep about 5 hours at time though I continue to have boughts of nodding out uncontrollably in the early evening. If I do stay awake then I am awake until 3:00 in the morning. I believe the solution is counter-intuitive as the night loading does not seem to work. I think the level given the 3-4 hour half life is building up at night causing the nodding out and if I pass a certain time then I ?wake up?
2. These problems have been going on for over a week. I don?t want go down, but would like input as to whether I should. My question is if the level increase is too high with the stronger Liofen will I not get over these problems unless I go down and then back up. I would like to tough it out but will drop down if it is counter-productive
3. Tiptronic, you seem to like L-Glutamine. I currently take one 1000MG pill in the morning. What is your current dose of the powder? Your lack of somnolence in lower doses may be attributable to the LG.
4. Where is Larisa? I have not seen a recent post. L was making a real stab at the higher doses and am curious about her progress.
5. I am playing devil?s advocate here, but I do question if levels are being reached at under 270MG. My logic is that Dr. A was able to go down to a 50MG (including p.r.n) maintenance dose, but most of you cannot get under 100MG without craving coming back. I honor your AF status, but may question that your level was reached.
Sorry about the length, but hope this helps others.
Jim
:thanks:

[tiptronic_ct]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Hi, Jim

I'll try to answer as best I can (with a few ramblings in between).

1. I've played around a lot with the timing of doses. I suffered from incredible insomnia ever since I stopped drinking and/or started taking baclofen at such high doses (240 - 270mg range when I hit my switch). Once I started reading other people's posts, I took my last dose no later than 4.00 p.m. It seems to work well. I still sleep very little - about 4 hours a night - but what sleep I do get is of good quality.

I thought I was comfortable at a 80mg maintenance dose, but in hindsight I went down too quickly. I have been at a maintenance dose of 120mg for the past while. I take 20mg in the morning, 40mg around lunchtime & 60mg at 4.00 p.m. So I'm still loading up towards what used to be my witching hour, but I'm doing so earlier in the day.

2. Be careful with the management of side effects! Only persevere at the same dose of Liofen if your circumstances allow for it. Again, with the wisdom of hindsight, I should immediately have upped my dose when I switched from BacMax to Pacifen. Conversely, the same would apply to you maybe titrating down on the Liofen until your somnolence stabilises.

3. I still take L-Glut. 2000mg morning & 2000mg at night (before bed). I originally started taking it (supposedly) to help suppress cravings while I was tapering my drinking prior to starting bac. That and lots of reading on the trusty ToolBox Thread in Monthly Abstinence! At one stage, I was taking up to 12 000mg (if memory serves). I'm not so sure it helped all that much for cravings in the end, but it has general health benefits. It helps to even out my blood sugar levels and has made a huge difference to IBS. I've gotten my wife to take it before and after exercise, and she believes it helps her maintain energy levels whilst she's playing squash & reduces the time she takes to recover afterward. Its a supplement though - not to be confused with meds.

4. No idea what could have happened to Larisa. Its one of the things I hate about MWO - not knowing what happened to people who drop off the radar.

5. Partly answered in 1 above (refer maintenance dose). I think your down-titration should be much more carefully managed than working towards your switch. You also need to do it at a much slower rate. As far as I am aware, we do not have knowledge of Dr. A's down-titration schedule. All of us simply have to find our own way. I started a thread about it at the time, but there never seems to be much interest in the topic... I found that at 80mg it was easy to remain AF, but I did start having "drinking thoughts" every now and again (of the "a glass of red wine would go well with this dish" variety). I thought that was OK, because I was "dealing with" my addiction. But there really is no need. Having gone up to 120mg again, total indifference is back. I've only been sober for 7 months and at this level, I have absolutely no side effects. So I'm going stay there for another month or two, and then slowly titrate down further. I'm in absolutely no hurry to "prove" that I've been cured by taking as little bac as possible. 5 years later, and Dr. A still takes bac. I believe its as little as 30mg nowadays.

Phew! Your long post has prompted an even longer response :H

[JimBrook]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Thanks

Tiptromic thank you for your in-depth response. All your information was very helpful. Also thanks for staying on this site. I am sure a lot of people on the side lines are being helped out. It is odd that some go from posting quite often to an abrupt stop. I too hope that cowgal is doing well. I have stayed away from the B4A site after hearing the ramblings of its founder. Do you think people are moving over to there?

I will definitely try to get my doses in by 4PM. I have all but 20MG in me now and I definitely feel less in a fog. I started taking this morning at 5AM. I am usually up by between 3-5 AM on my 5 hour sleep cycle so if I start then I may get over the somnolence early or even get some more sleep. My wife has been a real trooper throughout all of this but my sleep schedule or lack thereof is driving her a bit crazy.

All the best from Brookline

Jim

[beatle]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I experienced complete relief from insomnia in early days of bac, and then, as I titrated up, I found I was having sleeping problems again.

Thanks to good advice and experiences related by others on this forum, I found that by taking my last dose 4 hours before bedtime, I eliminated the insomnia effect.

[beatle]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I should also mention that by taking my last dose of bac at least 4 hours before bedtime, I have eliminated the need to rise and visit the loo every 2 hours. This is conducive to better sleep patterns.

[Guest]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

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